Egypt votes to outlaw female circumcision

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Egypt MPs vote to outlaw female circumcision

1 hour ago CAIRO (AFP) — Egypt's parliament on Saturday outlawed female circumcision except in cases of "medical necessity," a condition which could undermine the ban, parliamentary sources said.

Female genital mutilation, which dates back to pharaonic times in Egypt, will now be punishable by a jail term of between three months and two years or a fine of 1,000-5,000 Egyptian pounds (190-940 dollars), they said.

The new legislation is part of a bill on children's rights which has been the subject of fierce parliamentary debate for several weeks.

Those who supported the practice argued it was appropriate when female genitals protruded too much, adding that it was needed to preserve the woman's virtue.

"Nothing in Islam forbids circumcision," said Saad al-Katatni, president of Egypt's main opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood.

The health ministry tried in 1997 to ban the tradition, which affects both Muslim and Christian women in Egypt, and introduced curbs which allowed only doctors to carry out the operation and solely in "exceptional circumstances."

The restrictions were further strengthened in June 2007 when Health Minister Hatem al-Gabali issued a decree -- rather than law -- banning all doctors and members of the medical profession from performing the procedure.

The new law, which takes immediate effect, toughens penalties for anyone who is convicted of flouting the ban.

Circumcision involves the partial or complete removal of the woman's external genitals and has remained widespread in Egypt despite the efforts by political and religious authorities to stop the practice.

Female circumcision can cause death through haemorrhaging and later complications during childbirth. It also carries risks of infection, urinary tract problems and mental trauma.

Source

In the book club we're reading, "I'm Happier to Know You", which briefly discusses female circumcision in Egypt. The author claims that over half the female population is circumcised with the majority of those women being in Upper Egypt. It describes the three different types of female circumcision and the severity, damage, and reasons behind it. The worst being the equivalent to cutting off half of a males #######.

This part of the book in reference to the culture not only shocked me but greatly disturbed and angered me. I have read before that female circumcision was practiced in Africa but I was under the assumption that it was done by indigenous tribes today and a long time ago by those in Egypt and other parts. I questioned my Husband about this during our courtship and at the time he told me that it was so rare and didn't really happen. My Husband is a Doctor how could he not know about this procedure before?

According to the book and this article it was still widely practiced in Egypt and in the region that the majority of my Husbands family is from. It has me questioning did his Aunts have to have it done? Did his Grandma have to have it? There are other parts of the book I find greatly disturbing about the culture as well in regards to how the women are treated. Such as what happens to some of the females the night before or the day of the wedding. The claims made are so disgusting I can't go into it in this thread. You'll just have to read the book.

I celebrate this achievement for all the women of Egypt to no longer have to be subject to this barbaric treatment!

Edited June 7, 2008 by Olivia*

[morocco4ever 63]

I just hope they don't find a loop hole with the "medical necessary" exception.

I can't understand why any man would want a woman with this procedure. I would think that they would want to have a wife that will enjoy the special area of a marriage as much as he does.

[mohamed and trina 0]

i agree this is barbaric.it should not happen at all.my fiance lives in egypt and this is a subject i talked alot about with him many many times.it takes everything away from the child.and another thing why should the man just enjoy the marriage and not the wome.if you know what i mean .thats not right at all.and the child has no say.i even watched videos of the women in some tribes have this done.and it changes them all together.they were doing this in a lot older age like 13.what a terrible life to violate a child that way and them thinking its ok.thats so sad its because of how they was brought up.what a shame.

[sarahaziz 0]

I pray to God those women/girls who have already had it done - God bless them with faith to still go on with life and be women of God's grace. Just because humans have let them down God still stands with better things.

3 months? Try life in jail because you've ruined someone elses!

I have a couple of comments but I won't even bother posting them up they might come off sexist.

[S and S 12]

In many cases I have read about, it is the mothers who insist on having it done to the daughters. It is rarely discussed among men because of the nature of it. I read a trilogy about a princess in Saudi Arabia whose mother and older sisters had the procedure done. Thankfully someone told her mother how unnecessary and dangerous it was so this princess never had it done. Later when this princess was visiting in Egypt she was asked to intercede on a woman about to be circumsized against her will. The princess spent an hour telling the Egyptian mother of the dangers of it, but in the end the mother forced her daughter to get the procedure. I believe her daughter was in her late teenage years. It was horrible.

I also read of cases where women insist on being nearly closed up after they give birth to each child. They do it to themselves believing it is in their best interest!!! I think it will take time and education to change people's ways in this regard. It just makes me sad to think of those girls suffering needlessly. God save them from the pain and infection.

[Henia 11]

Hello ... Outlaw? Waw FINALLY! Now if they could just outlaw the hymenoplasty trend ... then women of all the world would finally be at peace with the whole virginity thing! Gosh, either he excepts you or he doesn't!

[aisha kandisha 0]

The passing of a law doesn't mean much. This is a positive step, but it hardly means women still will not be subjected to it anymore. For laws to be effective, they have to be enforced, and there are all too many laws that are never/rarely enforced, often in place simply to appease the international community.

A 2003 survey by UNICEF said that 97 percent of married women in Egypt had undergone genital mutilation. But the Egypt Demographic and Health Survey has projected that the prevalence of the practice will decline from around 80 percent among girls aged 15-17 to around 60 percent for the same age group in around a decade, according to the report.

[Henia 11]

Hello ... Outlaw? Waw FINALLY! Now if they could just outlaw the hymenoplasty trend ... then women of all the world would finally be at peace with the whole virginity thing! Gosh, either he excepts you or he doesn't!

True, very true ... hard to get past cultural norms. And clitorodectomy unfortunately is not only in Africa or ME ... but with the new wave of immigrants coming to America! The form practiced varies by ethnic group and geographical location. It crosses the numerous population groups and is a part of the many cultures, traditions and customs that exist in Nigeria. It crosses the lines of various religious groups. It is found among Christians, Muslims and Animists alike.

But on a final note: I would like to ask the avocates of clitorodectomy, if the God made a mistake? By giving women, this prt to enjoy herself sexually?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

CAIRO, June 8 (Reuters) - Muslim scholars in Egypt on Sunday criticised aspects of a new law on children approved by parliament on Saturday against the opposition of the socially conservative Muslim Brotherhood. The scholars said the legislation went against Islamic law by allowing women to register children under their own family names and by setting 18 as the minimum age for marriage.

Another Azhar scholar and teacher, Abdullah Samak, said he objected to any implementation of the law that prevents parents from disciplining their children, physically if necessary. The law allows for six months in prison for parents who harm their children or do not treat them with dignity.

The law also contains a ban on the widespread practice of cutting the genitals of girls, sometimes known as female genital mutilation, with a maximum penalty of two years in jail.

An existing law bans the practice, which is favoured by some clerics but opposed by the religious establishment.

Source

I am very happy for the improvement of Human Rights being extended to women and children in Egypt.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

And male circumcision was initiated to limit the man's hability to masturbate.

Would it be so much better if circumcision was practiced when these women were babies?

There was a poll right here on VJ, the results showed women prefer their man to be circumcised. Yet, male circumcision is equivalent to type I or II of female circumcision.

Stop both female AND male circumcision!

Saludos,

Caro

Edited June 8, 2008 by JVKn'CVO

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

And male circumcision was initiated to limit the man's hability to masturbate.

Would it be so much better if circumcision was practiced when these women were babies?

There was a poll right here on VJ, the results showed women prefer their man to be circumcised. Yet, male circumcision is equivalent to type I or II of female circumcision.

Stop both female AND male circumcision!

Saludos,

Caro

No offense but the plumbing is different. Male plumbing hangs on the outside and they are circumcised for cleanliness. Females plumbing is internal and it is known that the ####### minora and ####### majora are there to protect the vaginal opening & ####### from getting bacterias & ect inside it. They are anatomically designed to protect the vital procreation organs. The structure of the internal organs in this part of the female region is an incubator for bacteria, ect. It's warm, dark, and moist. Cutting off the male foreskin for cleanliness makes logical sense seeing that anatomically the ####### inserts and introduces foreign partials into the #######. Thus cleanliness becomes important for procreation. Whereas the cutting of the female parts does far worse damage to the females internal and external organs then it does to the minds perceived virtue.

[sarahaziz 0]

I get really thrown off when people say to ban male circumcision. I do understand the view though. I agree it's cleaner for men.

[S and S 12]

And male circumcision was initiated to limit the man's hability to masturbate.

Would it be so much better if circumcision was practiced when these women were babies?

There was a poll right here on VJ, the results showed women prefer their man to be circumcised. Yet, male circumcision is equivalent to type I or II of female circumcision.

Stop both female AND male circumcision!

Saludos,

Caro

No offense but the plumbing is different. Male plumbing hangs on the outside and they are circumcised for cleanliness. Females plumbing is internal and it is known that the ####### minora and ####### majora are there to protect the vaginal opening & ####### from getting bacterias & ect inside it. They are anatomically designed to protect the vital procreation organs. The structure of the internal organs in this part of the female region is an incubator for bacteria, ect. It's warm, dark, and moist. Cutting off the male foreskin for cleanliness makes logical sense seeing that anatomically the ####### inserts and introduces foreign partials into the #######. Thus cleanliness becomes important for procreation. Whereas the cutting of the female parts does far worse damage to the females internal and external organs then it does to the minds perceived virtue.

Great point. I was thinking the same thing. In fact, my husband who is a doctor pointed this out to me about risk of infection in women if their partner is not circumsized. Yet he says there is rarely a reason for women to be circumsized and you wouldn't really call it that. A small number of women are born with too much skin which makes intercourse painful for them. In this case they have a small amount of that excess skin removed. They don't have vital parts removed though.

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

I get really thrown off when people say to ban male circumcision. I do understand the view though. I agree it's cleaner for men.

some studies i've seen indicate that male circumcision can decrease the chance to catch aids, so there's another reason to consider it.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

And male circumcision was initiated to limit the man's hability to masturbate.

Would it be so much better if circumcision was practiced when these women were babies?

There was a poll right here on VJ, the results showed women prefer their man to be circumcised. Yet, male circumcision is equivalent to type I or II of female circumcision.

Stop both female AND male circumcision!

Saludos,

Caro

No offense but the plumbing is different. Male plumbing hangs on the outside and they are circumcised for cleanliness. Females plumbing is internal and it is known that the ####### minora and ####### majora are there to protect the vaginal opening & ####### from getting bacterias & ect inside it. They are anatomically designed to protect the vital procreation organs. The structure of the internal organs in this part of the female region is an incubator for bacteria, ect. It's warm, dark, and moist. Cutting off the male foreskin for cleanliness makes logical sense seeing that anatomically the ####### inserts and introduces foreign partials into the #######. Thus cleanliness becomes important for procreation. Whereas the cutting of the female parts does far worse damage to the females internal and external organs then it does to the minds perceived virtue.

Great point. I was thinking the same thing. In fact, my husband who is a doctor pointed this out to me about risk of infection in women if their partner is not circumsized. Yet he says there is rarely a reason for women to be circumsized and you wouldn't really call it that. A small number of women are born with too much skin which makes intercourse painful for them. In this case they have a small amount of that excess skin removed. They don't have vital parts removed though.

It really is the same.

4)Isn't female circumcision worse than male circumcision?

Female circumcision is typically viewed as more horrific than male circumcision because it is usually done under unhygienic conditions rather than in a hospital, and because one form of female circumcision, infibulation, is particularly severe. However, both male and female circumcisions are classed as genital mutilation by the International Coalition for Genital Integrity. Both forms of circumcision remove functional, normal tissue, cause extreme pain, permanently disfigure the genitals, and permanently damage the sexual response. And in most cultures where female circumcision is performed, male circumcision is also performed with equally unhygienic instruments. Regardless of the child's gender, when done to infants or children, unnecessary genital surgeries violate human rights because they are amputations performed without medical need and without the individual's consent.

The World Health Organization recognizes three types of female circumcision. Type I removes the clitoral hood and/or the clitoral tip. Type II removes the clitoral hood, #######, and part or all of the #######. Type III, also known as infibulation or pharaonic circumcision, involves removal of all external female genitalia and suturing of the vaginal opening.

Male circumcision can be compared to type I or II female circumcision. Although the glans is not harmed at the time of circumcision, the loss of protective structures causes it to dry out and lose sensitivity over time. It is also important to note that most of the nerves and pleasure receptors present in the ####### are, in the male, present in the foreskin and its associated structure, the frenulum. Removal of these nerves constitutes a loss that can be most adequately compared to a partial clitoridectomy.

Source: Notjustskin.org

Saludos,

Caro