Universal Health Care

[SaadBell 0]

I don't link them. Health care is like anything else in the world. If it's important then you should do what you need to do to have it. Health insurance has always been important to me. So no matter if I had a lousy job or a good one I always made sure my family had insurance. There have been several times in my life where my job didn't offer it. You can get low cost insurance that covers the big things. I know it's there because I have had it.

Oh and BTW. When Luz got sick a month ago? I had $1050 out of pocket costs that I have to pay. I am not looking for anyone else to pay it for me. I called them and asked if they had a payment plan. I got a zero interest financing for what I had to pay.

It's all what is important to you. If it is then a person will find a way to take care of it.

Really, I can tell you never been diagnosis with a major illness. When I was a child I was diagnosis with type 1 diabetes, than when I was 30 I was again diagnosis with MS. Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE. I can’t even get life insurance, so yea you are really lucky, hope it keeps going for you, and you don’t need anything too costly to save your life. So I guess in your eyes, hey suck it up, too bad, just shout up and die already. Wow the compassion, overwhems me at times.

[GaryC 7]

I don't link them. Health care is like anything else in the world. If it's important then you should do what you need to do to have it. Health insurance has always been important to me. So no matter if I had a lousy job or a good one I always made sure my family had insurance. There have been several times in my life where my job didn't offer it. You can get low cost insurance that covers the big things. I know it's there because I have had it.

Oh and BTW. When Luz got sick a month ago? I had $1050 out of pocket costs that I have to pay. I am not looking for anyone else to pay it for me. I called them and asked if they had a payment plan. I got a zero interest financing for what I had to pay.

It's all what is important to you. If it is then a person will find a way to take care of it.

Really, I can tell you never been diagnosis with a major illness. When I was a child I was diagnosis with type 1 diabetes, than when I was 30 I was again diagnosis with MS. Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE. I can’t even get life insurance, so yea you are really lucky, hope it keeps going for you, and you don’t need anything too costly to save your life. So I guess in your eyes, hey suck it up, too bad, just shout up and die already. Wow the compassion, overwhems me at times.

Oh really? You have no idea. My family has been through the depths of health care hell in ways you cannot even imagine. You don't know what your talking about.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

I also believe health care should be a right, not a privilege.

Let me ask you something. What else do you see as a "right"? A home? Food? A job? Clothes? If so do you think the government should also take care of that? At what point does a persons own responsibilities kick in?

Do you think education is a right? (This isn't a rhetorical question.)

It's a necessity. For our country to work we need an educated population. No, I don't mind paying for education. I do disagree with the way they teach our kids and they way they pay for it though.

But you don't classify health care as equally important? Sick people who are terrified of going to the doctor because of cost are not productive members of society.

I classify education and health care together. They are two services that should be provided to everyone in a civilized society. If you want a private hospital room and are willing to pay for it, why not? If you want to send your kid to a private religious school, it's your right. But a decent basic level of both should be provided to everyone. I don't think too many people disagree on this point, just how to make it a reality.

Our system hurts many more people than it benefits if you compare it with with those of other industrialized nations.

If Jon (my husband) and I end up moving to England, health care costs would be a major driver. His stepfather had a kidney transplant last year and didn't pay a dime. (Yes, I know all about taxes in the UK.) He was on home dialysis for two years before that. I cringe when I think how much that would have cost him here. He wouldn't even have been able to enjoy his newfound health for all the bills he'd need to worry about!

My husband broke his collarbone eight weeks ago. He has decent insurance through his employer. He's going to end up paying something like $300 out of pocket for various fees. He's already amassing a stack of insurance notices and bills for a two-hour emergency room visit (most spent in the waiting room) and two very brief follow-up appointments with an orthopedic doctor. He is finding this absolutely bewildering. If he'd not had insurance, he would have paid about $1500 out of pocket for a total of 10 minutes seeing a doctor, and X-rays.

Imagine if he'd been really sick! Stories like this are probably in the millions in this country.

I don't link them. Health care is like anything else in the world. If it's important then you should do what you need to do to have it. Health insurance has always been important to me. So no matter if I had a lousy job or a good one I always made sure my family had insurance. There have been several times in my life where my job didn't offer it. You can get low cost insurance that covers the big things. I know it's there because I have had it.

Oh and BTW. When Luz got sick a month ago? I had $1050 out of pocket costs that I have to pay. I am not looking for anyone else to pay it for me. I called them and asked if they had a payment plan. I got a zero interest financing for what I had to pay.

It's all what is important to you. If it is then a person will find a way to take care of it.

That's simply not the case. Not everyone can even get insurance at all, and no one can get low-cost insurance that covers the big things. Low-cost insurance doesn't exist. Low-premium insurance, yes, but with big deductibles (i.e., not low cost) high copayments, and numerous rules and restrictions. Try getting insurance if you've had cancer or have a chronic disease. If you don't live in a state with a high-risk pool, you're out of luck. And if your state does have a high-risk pool, you'd be paying more than your mortgage just to have insurance at all. And there are typically waiting periods, etc.

Isn't there something amiss with this cost structure? As of last year, insurance for a family of four (assuming that no one in the family has been sick in the past or has a dreaded preexisting condition) exceeded the average minimum wage. Someone's getting f*cked here, and it's not the health care industry.

You can be responsible, do absolutely everything right, and still end up in financial ruin because of illness in the U.S. I think that's an unacceptable state of affairs.

(Gary, I'm glad that Luz is OK, and that sucks that you had to pay that much...)

Boo-Yah, U.S. hospital food is famously bad too. And you pay a hell of a lot for lumpy pudding and room-temperature OJ.

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE.

One thing the government should definitely do is make it illegal for insurance companies

to deny insurance based on pre-existing conditions.

[Heracles 417]

Really, I can tell you never been diagnosis with a major illness. When I was a child I was diagnosis with type 1 diabetes, than when I was 30 I was again diagnosis with MS. Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE. I can’t even get life insurance, so yea you are really lucky, hope it keeps going for you, and you don’t need anything too costly to save your life. So I guess in your eyes, hey suck it up, too bad, just shout up and die already. Wow the compassion, overwhems me at times.

It is not a matter of compassion. A lot of things would need to be overhauled for it to be implemented. Some here talk about education but schools are run on a county level. A UHC would never ever work if run by the counties. It would need to be run on a state or federal level.

The one thing I do find interesting is that companies are not pushing this. I know in Australia very little burden falls on the companies with regards to healthcare. It is the tax payer who foots the bill there. The only thing companies pay for is workcover. Which is a relatively small payment to the government to cover expenses and longterm treatment if someone is injured at work.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Marilyn. 340]

umm, I was in the hospital here in the US for about a week and I probably lost about 10 ponds.. the food was horrid....

I don't know if universal health care is the answer but something needs to be done about the health care system in the US...

[Pooky 3,876]

umm, I was in the hospital here in the US for about a week and I probably lost about 10 ponds.. the food was horrid....

I think it's an incentive to make people want to get out of hospital faster.

P

[Marilyn. 340]

Here. I will give you an example of the downside of UHC:

The food is so bad that patients are starving

Natasha Wallace Health Reporter

April 3, 2008

PUBLIC hospital food was so "atrocious" and menus so inflexible that half of all patients were "starving" and ended up staying twice as long as a result, an inquiry heard yesterday.

A survey of 777 patients across the Northern Sydney Central Coast Area Health Service last year found 51 per cent were malnourished - and many had not entered hospital in that state.

Joanne Prendergast, the manager of the department of nutrition at Royal North Shore Hospital, told the special commission of inquiry into acute care services that it was "incredible" that NSW Health had no set nutritional standards for meals.

"Malnutrition is rife in our public hospitals and we need to do something about it," Ms Prendergast told the inquiry. "We have patients starving."

........

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the-fo...6851011857.html

dang, I meant to add this to my post...

umm, I was in the hospital here in the US for about a week and I probably lost about 10 ponds.. the food was horrid....

I think it's an incentive to make people want to get out of hospital faster.

P

I did want to get out but my doctor wouldn't let me ...

[SaadBell 0]

Oh really? You have no idea. My family has been through the depths of health care hell in ways you cannot even imagine. You don't know what your talking about.

Than you of all people should be outrage at this system.

People in countries with universal health care live longer and healthier lives than people in the United States. Their infant mortality rates are lower. No one goes bankrupt or loses their home because of unpaid medical bills. No one has to make a choice between food and medicine or between rent and health insurance payments. No one has to put off going to the doctor because it’s too expensive. Changing jobs doesn’t mean losing or changing medical coverage. Losing a job doesn’t mean losing medical coverage.

Universal health care even mitigates the costs of malpractice insurance: a big chunk of many malpractice awards goes toward future medical costs, and with universal health care, those costs are already covered.

So what’s the down side? Opponents of universal health care will tell you about waiting lists and inferior medical services. They’ll bring up the spectre of “socialised medicine,” which is meant to make you think of some faceless Soviet-style bureaucrat ordering you to see some poorly-trained doctor in some bleak clinic.

They’ll tell you that the “free market,” the system under which profits depend in part on withholding medical services from participants or refusing participation to people with the greatest needs, is the best way to ensure that everyone gets the care they need.

They’ll tell you this with a straight face, in the face of 50 million uninsured Americans, in the face of life expectancies three years shorter than those in other developed countries (and Cuba), in the face of infant mortality rates anywhere from 20-50% higher than those in other developed countries.

They’ll tell you that the U.S. has the finest health care system in the world; something which, if true, would mean that Americans are simply physically inferior to those longer-lived and healthier Canadians and French and Cubans.

It’s almost true: the U.S. has the finest health care infrastructure in the world, with the best equipment and a plentiful supply of well-trained doctors and other medical personnel. It’s just that many Americans can’t afford to get in the door.

Polls consistently show that a large majority of Americans support the idea of taxpayer-supported universal health care even if it means higher taxes — anywhere from 60%-80%, depending upon how the question is phrased. So why don’t we have it?

We don’t have it because a very small minority of people pay our elected officials a very large amount of money to kill any attempt at implementing a sane national health care policy.

I say “a very large amount of money,” but in reality it’s just a fraction of what the health care industry receives in return for their investment: they spend a few hundred million on campaign contributions and lobbying, and they get tens of billions in return, from tax breaks, subsidies and the opportunity to continue racking up very tidy profits at the expense of consumers, both the ones they serve and the ones they don’t.

[GabiandVi 34]

This is a very simplistic view of the world and it doesn't work. Nothing is all black or all white. If you are a democrat or any other party affiliation because you think "they" are more feeling, you are fooling yourself. Governments are not humans. Governments do not have feelings. People who think that a government should act out of good will or kindness are asking for trouble. They also don't want to take the responsibility themselves for their fellow man. Only people can act out of good will or kindness, not an institution. When you want to put everything in the lap of the "government" it is because you don't want to feel guilty when you aren't willing to help yourself.

Governments should provide things like healthcare or education because it is what is best for the country.

And by the way, Republicans traditionally donate more to charitable organizations than any other party affiliates.

I'm NOT a Republican. I just hate this mindless judgement about motivations that people do not understand.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Oh yea, no one WANTS TO GIVE ME HEALTH INSURANCE.

One thing the government should definitely do is make it illegal for insurance companies

to deny insurance based on pre-existing conditions.

Sweet apostles, Ma Wilson, now you're talking sense!

[Pooky 3,876]

I'm NOT a Republican. I just hate this mindless judgement about motivations that people do not understand.

I think you will find that most people do understand the motivation (singular) at work here .......... money.

What they have an overabundance of is focus on who to blame for the problem. Don't just target the Republicans, broaden the sweep to include politicians in general and you will be nearer the mark.

P

[GaryC 7]

Oh really? You have no idea. My family has been through the depths of health care hell in ways you cannot even imagine. You don't know what your talking about.

Than you of all people should be outrage at this system.

People in countries with universal health care live longer and healthier lives than people in the United States. Their infant mortality rates are lower. No one goes bankrupt or loses their home because of unpaid medical bills. No one has to make a choice between food and medicine or between rent and health insurance payments. No one has to put off going to the doctor because it’s too expensive. Changing jobs doesn’t mean losing or changing medical coverage. Losing a job doesn’t mean losing medical coverage.

Universal health care even mitigates the costs of malpractice insurance: a big chunk of many malpractice awards goes toward future medical costs, and with universal health care, those costs are already covered.

So what’s the down side? Opponents of universal health care will tell you about waiting lists and inferior medical services. They’ll bring up the spectre of “socialised medicine,” which is meant to make you think of some faceless Soviet-style bureaucrat ordering you to see some poorly-trained doctor in some bleak clinic.

They’ll tell you that the “free market,” the system under which profits depend in part on withholding medical services from participants or refusing participation to people with the greatest needs, is the best way to ensure that everyone gets the care they need.

They’ll tell you this with a straight face, in the face of 50 million uninsured Americans, in the face of life expectancies three years shorter than those in other developed countries (and Cuba), in the face of infant mortality rates anywhere from 20-50% higher than those in other developed countries.

They’ll tell you that the U.S. has the finest health care system in the world; something which, if true, would mean that Americans are simply physically inferior to those longer-lived and healthier Canadians and French and Cubans.

It’s almost true: the U.S. has the finest health care infrastructure in the world, with the best equipment and a plentiful supply of well-trained doctors and other medical personnel. It’s just that many Americans can’t afford to get in the door.

Polls consistently show that a large majority of Americans support the idea of taxpayer-supported universal health care even if it means higher taxes — anywhere from 60%-80%, depending upon how the question is phrased. So why don’t we have it?

We don’t have it because a very small minority of people pay our elected officials a very large amount of money to kill any attempt at implementing a sane national health care policy.

I say “a very large amount of money,” but in reality it’s just a fraction of what the health care industry receives in return for their investment: they spend a few hundred million on campaign contributions and lobbying, and they get tens of billions in return, from tax breaks, subsidies and the opportunity to continue racking up very tidy profits at the expense of consumers, both the ones they serve and the ones they don’t.

The insurance industry needs to be overhauled but I will never be in favor of single payer or universal health care. Make insurance more affordable, make it portable from job to job, cut out "pre-exsiting condition" clauses even let the government assist low income people to get health insurance. Spout all the polls and stats you want. I will never be in favor of the government taking over the nations health care.

[panamania79 2]

umm, I was in the hospital here in the US for about a week and I probably lost about 10 ponds.. the food was horrid....

I think it's an incentive to make people want to get out of hospital faster.

P

Either that or to kill them.

[GabiandVi 34]

I'm NOT a Republican. I just hate this mindless judgement about motivations that people do not understand.

I think you will find that most people do understand the motivation (singular) at work here .......... money.

What they have an overabundance of is focus on who to blame for the problem. Don't just target the Republicans, broaden the sweep to include politicians in general and you will be nearer the mark.

P

This is off topic, but I just have to say that again, this is an assumption about people's motivation. The comment you quoted above was in response to an "ad" that suggested that Republicans, (not the politicians but the voters) are Republicans because they don't care. I agree that the problem exists in every party and among most polititians, but it is not only money that motivates people. Insurance companies? YES! Other aspects of society? YES. Many polititians, perhaps most of them? Probably so. But everyone? NO!