American's view on Islam

[sarahaziz 0]

hey everyone....hope all is going well with all of u...

1- Muslim Man whether married or not if he is good in life and abides by Allahs rules he does get the maidens either way.

2- Muslim Man can not marry the short marraige or the misyar marraige.... just as virtual wife said.

3- Muslim man can marry any woman but she has to have either muslim chritian or jewish.

4- Muslim woman has to marry only a muslim man.... becoz Islam cares about spreading the religion and in Islam the kids are by nature born muslims like their fathers.

i know lots of u will disagree and im really sorry im not here to offend anyone im just saying the facts how it is... i love u all without even knowing you and i wish u all the best in the world.. but thats how the religion is.

love n peace

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

[sarahaziz 0]

Sorry I forgot to add from Christianity we believe after death you don't need to eat, women, men, etc We only praise God and need God because we are near him in Heaven. So if you have God's presence among you how could 40 virgins be greater?

[Nutty 2]

How do I FEEL ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES????

(Q) For women a husband can Swear before God he won't marry more than one but in his heart he knows in the quran it accepts him to marry up to 4 if he actually desired to do that.

(A) First I say, "Strange question." Doesn't love reside in the heart and ideas/knowledge in the brain? However, in answer to your question....A man can know his religion allows more wives, but if his preference is to be with only one, then he is making a conscious decision to choice how he lives rather than being guided by doctrine.

(Q) Does everyone accept the kids to follow Islam because of the quran presents the muslim woman or man with that right?

(A) Well, I don't mind my children follow islam. But then my husband and I both agree that all religions in the world have some benefits and so we agreed to be open to showing our children both Christian and Islam.

(Q) Also in some cases if a man needs sexual relations with a woman he is allowed to "make a contract" with another woman and accept her as a wife for a short period of time and they are "annulled" afterwards

(A) This guideline was instituted hundreds of years ago because it "sanitized" prostitution/extramarital relationships for muslim men who were away from their homes who wanted to have sexual relations with their wife (s). Let me say that it is frowned apon in Iran. Which is mostly Shia. A woman who enters into this arrangement will have some difficulty in marrying later to another man. So you rarely see this form of marriage. I even proposed it to my husband when we first got together...But, he said it was "not the right way" to get married. I am not saying this practice does not exist, but it is in the dark corners of society. Also, women who have been in such forms of marriage and had children as a result, often struggle with child support issues later once the temporary husband is finished his contractual duties.

(Q) How does everyone who has converted from another religion or pending on converting feel about the differences?

(A) On the subject of religious conversion....I "converted" to marry my husband in the Iranian embassy. But before I was hesitant. I felt as if I was being forced because in the Quran, muslim men are allowed to marry women "of the book" (Christians and Hebrews). So I felt that the Iranian government was actually going against the Quran by requiring me to convert, when even the Quran does not force the issue. However, before my husband and I had a long discussion about this and he was very clever in rationalizing it. Said that he considered himself a muslim, but also believe in some Christian principals, buddhist ideas...So if he had to convert to those religions it would not be a problem. This answer satisfied me. If my husband is open to other religions, then I could be too.

Gotta go back to work.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Nutty

[doodlebugg 10]

hey everyone....hope all is going well with all of u...

1- Muslim Man whether married or not if he is good in life and abides by Allahs rules he does get the maidens either way.

2- Muslim Man can not marry the short marraige or the misyar marraige.... just as virtual wife said.

3- Muslim man can marry any woman but she has to have either muslim chritian or jewish.

4- Muslim woman has to marry only a muslim man.... becoz Islam cares about spreading the religion and in Islam the kids are by nature born muslims like their fathers.

i know lots of u will disagree and im really sorry im not here to offend anyone im just saying the facts how it is... i love u all without even knowing you and i wish u all the best in the world.. but thats how the religion is.

love n peace

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

Where in the new testament does Jesus, pbuh, say that man should only have one wife?

[HLM 1]

im so sorry virtual wife...but i know that for a fact!! and thats why only lebanon the only country allowing this marriage. Also religion is not by genes its by something called "fitrah" meaning human nature. If the kids choose any other religion when they grow up " theres no compulsary in religion". i know from ur personal experience things are going very well but i wd rather take the word of the quran insha Allah..plz its not personal whatso everrr and i totally respect each and every one of u no matter what u believe in:D

heres one of the many fatwas i found on that issue: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503545554

love n peace

[ya falaha! 0]

I've never had a conversation about the "maidens" with the husband but if he did believe in it it wouldn't bother me. What do I care what happens in the afterlife? Who really knows if these "maidens" really exist? Has anyone come back to confirm this?

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

[Nutty 2]

Some intrepretors of the quran said the word "maidens" is mistranslated and should really be "raisins" or "golden raisins."

It's a hot debate in the world of religious interpretation.

I've never had a conversation about the "maidens" with the husband but if he did believe in it it wouldn't bother me. What do I care what happens in the afterlife? Who really knows if these "maidens" really exist? Has anyone come back to confirm this?

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Nutty

[doodlebugg 10]

I never got what the big hoopla was over the virgins in paradise. After about a month, maybe less, they're no longer virgins so then what?

I'd rather be on the beach with no fear of burning with a nice good book. That and the ability to eat whatever the heck I want all day every day for eternity with the promise of ALWAYS being a size 6. THAT's paradise to me.

[Nutty 2]

To convert out of islam is a death sentence. But some have converted. Just last year there was a man in Afghanistan who became a Christian and was jailed. They declared him "insane" to avoid the execution. He is now a religious refugee in the US I think. BBC story

[HLM 1]

I also wanna say that u dont have to accept ur husband marrying someone else let alone 4! talk to ur husband and let him know u dont accept that and if he loves u enuff shud not worry at all. im a bornmuslim just as my husband ( USC( is and we never had to ever discuss this coz he knows im not that type of person who will ever or can ever share her man under any circumstances. It takes certain personalities where a woman can agree to it. and most of us know that our husbands are in love with us and that they found what they wanted in us then there shudnt be a reason for them to go find another wife.. i mean if there was something missing then he shud talk about it with me and see if it something i can do something about or not.. rather than just looking outside!! also just becoz the quran allows it doesnt mean it shud happen!!!! u shud also know it has a condition that makes it soooooooo hard for men to apply... lots of them get married but they do not apply that condition which is the base ... and that is to treat each one of them with EQUALITY.

you dont agree with this religion which i totally understand since u have a different religion.. so what im telling u is dont worry and relax its as simple as discussing it with ur man and making sure he knows how u feel about it:D

love n peace

[Sofiyya 1,687]

im so sorry virtual wife...but i know that for a fact!! and thats why only lebanon the only country allowing this marriage. Also religion is not by genes its by something called "fitrah" meaning human nature. If the kids choose any other religion when they grow up " theres no compulsary in religion". i know from ur personal experience things are going very well but i wd rather take the word of the quran insha Allah..plz its not personal whatso everrr and i totally respect each and every one of u no matter what u believe in:D

heres one of the many fatwas i found on that issue: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503545554

love n peace

Its not a fact, and Lebanon isn't the only country allowing mixed marriage for Muslimas. History shows that the rulers of Ethiopia used marriage between Muslimas and ahl al kitab men as a means of spreading Islam, and Caliph Umar denied Muslim men the "right" to marry out, believing it was bad for the faith.

With all due respect, the "human nature" argument trivializes a great faith; it is unrealistic, demonstrably untrue, and unsophisticated, at best. The prohibitions against marriage between Muslims and the ahl al kitab have not come from Allah, but from religious leaders, as evidenced by the use of a fatwa as "proof" of your position. The points either distort or lie by omission. I am sorry to say that this is too often true of sources that use cultural intrpretations when forming legal opinions.

For example, only part of verse 2:221 is cited: And do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you.And only part of verse 60:10 is cited: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them.

Here are both verses in their entirity. I will bold the omitted parts:

Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

This verse, the oldest on the subject, forbids both men and women from marriage with polytheists. If ahl al kitab are to be counted among the polytheists, then no Muslim could marry them.

60:10-11 O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: God knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianshi p of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of God: He judges (with justice) between you. And God is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom. And if any of your wives deserts you to the Unbelievers, and ye have an accession (by the coming over of a woman from the other side), then pay to those whose wives have deserted the equivalent of what they had spent (on their dower). And fear God, in Whom ye believe.

Revealed during the wars with the Meccans, and meant to defy the terms of a treaty requiring return of all refugees to the enemy, Muslims are directed to free their kuffar spouses - those who are hostile to Islam - to the enemy side, taking new partners from among the refugees. The treaty was violated to allow women to stay at Medina, returning only convert men, with assuranes that Allah would find a way for them, too. History shows that many Muslim men who released wives to comply with this revelation.

The history, context and order of the revelations is important to consider, as is the context and history behind the fiqh rulings offered as evidence of a prohibition. Since an honest appraisal demonstrates that these two revelations apply equally to both men and women, how has a claim arisen that only Muslim men are somehow exempted from them?

There is verse 5:5, which addresses Muslim men specifically, allowing for limited marriage with ahl al kita women. The verse does not prohibit marriage between Muslimas and ahl al kitab men; in fact, the Quran and the Sunnah are silent, neither denying or allowing marriage between them.

That 5:5 for men and the silence regarding women has been taken as a prohibition against Muslim women entering into unions with kitabi men is no surprise considering the source. Early Islamic scholars came from very conservative, patriarchal societies where women are primarily considered to be an adjunct and complement to a man, a possession to be protected, rather than an independent being. Culturally, she is expected to take on his preferences and be defined by his social standing.

In most Arab Muslim countries today, marriage to anything other than an Arab Muslim is undesirable for a woman because Arabs are considered to be superior to non-Arabs; marrying a non-Arab Muslim would lower her social status and class ranking. There is nothing Islamic about any of this, but the ability to identify pre-Islamic norms in a way that legitimizes them as Islamic has long been an irresistable urge in scholarly circles. When one considers how many God-given choics Muslim women have sacrificed to be protected by men in lieu of Allah, it is a shame upon us all.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

im so sorry virtual wife...but i know that for a fact!! and thats why only lebanon the only country allowing this marriage. Also religion is not by genes its by something called "fitrah" meaning human nature. If the kids choose any other religion when they grow up " theres no compulsary in religion". i know from ur personal experience things are going very well but i wd rather take the word of the quran insha Allah..plz its not personal whatso everrr and i totally respect each and every one of u no matter what u believe in:D

heres one of the many fatwas i found on that issue: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503545554

love n peace

Its not a fact, and Lebanon isn't the only country allowing mixed marriage for Muslimas. History shows that the rulers of Ethiopia used marriage between Muslimas and ahl al kitab men as a means of spreading Islam, and Caliph Umar denied Muslim men the "right" to marry out, believing it was bad for the faith.

With all due respect, the "human nature" argument trivializes a great faith; it is unrealistic, demonstrably untrue, and unsophisticated, at best. The prohibitions against marriage between Muslims and the ahl al kitab have not come from Allah, but from religious leaders, as evidenced by the use of a fatwa as "proof" of your position. The points either distort or lie by omission. I am sorry to say that this is too often true of sources that use cultural intrpretations when forming legal opinions.

For example, only part of verse 2:221 is cited: And do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you.And only part of verse 60:10 is cited: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them.

Here are both verses in their entirity. I will bold the omitted parts:

Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

This verse, the oldest on the subject, forbids both men and women from marriage with polytheists. If ahl al kitab are to be counted among the polytheists, then no Muslim could marry them.

60:10-11 O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: God knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianshi p of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of God: He judges (with justice) between you. And God is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom. And if any of your wives deserts you to the Unbelievers, and ye have an accession (by the coming over of a woman from the other side), then pay to those whose wives have deserted the equivalent of what they had spent (on their dower). And fear God, in Whom ye believe.

Revealed during the wars with the Meccans, and meant to defy the terms of a treaty requiring return of all refugees to the enemy, Muslims are directed to free their kuffar spouses - those who are hostile to Islam - to the enemy side, taking new partners from among the refugees. The treaty was violated to allow women to stay at Medina, returning only convert men, with assuranes that Allah would find a way for them, too. History shows that many Muslim men who released wives to comply with this revelation.

The history, context and order of the revelations is important to consider, as is the context and history behind the fiqh rulings offered as evidence of a prohibition. Since an honest appraisal demonstrates that these two revelations apply equally to both men and women, how has a claim arisen that only Muslim men are somehow exempted from them?

There is verse 5:5, which addresses Muslim men specifically, allowing for limited marriage with ahl al kita women. The verse does not prohibit marriage between Muslimas and ahl al kitab men; in fact, the Quran and the Sunnah are silent, neither denying or allowing marriage between them.

That 5:5 for men and the silence regarding women has been taken as a prohibition against Muslim women entering into unions with kitabi men is no surprise considering the source. Early Islamic scholars came from very conservative, patriarchal societies where women are primarily considered to be an adjunct and complement to a man, a possession to be protected, rather than an independent being. Culturally, she is expected to take on his preferences and be defined by his social standing.

In most Arab Muslim countries today, marriage to anything other than an Arab Muslim is undesirable for a woman because Arabs are considered to be superior to non-Arabs; marrying a non-Arab Muslim would lower her social status and class ranking. There is nothing Islamic about any of this, but the ability to identify pre-Islamic norms in a way that legitimizes them as Islamic has long been an irresistable urge in scholarly circles. When one considers how many God-given choics Muslim women have sacrificed to be protected by men in lieu of Allah, it is a shame upon us all.

Ok lets talk reality

First Sarahaziz,

I have never met a Christian Algerian unless they had Pied noir parents and were not actually arab. You are truly a rarity. Islam is a tenet in Algerian society. Preaching is completely forbidden and bibles are confiscated. Absolutely NO WAY would an Algerian be cool with his kids being raised ANYTHING but muslim . Being muslim is a tenet of being Algerian... which every way you put it, I have never seen an Algerian man allow his children to be raised Christian. Kabilyes are much more liberal than other Algerians. Now, if An Algerian is not going to have kids with his bride, the boundaries are a little looser. But kids kids kids.. if they have an Algerian daddy... they are gonna be muslim . If they arent,.... its a big tragedy for all the family

Virtual Wife,

I am really puzzled as to what point you are trying to make. I have never seen a muslim woman marry a christian man ANYWHERE and the muslim family was thrilled about it. In Lebanon, I am not sure because I have not been exposed to it. I have seen palestinian mixed marriages but it was christian women and muslim men. You are a first for me.

Muslimas are supposed to marry OTHER MUSLIMS not people from outside the faith. The husband HAS TO REVERT before he marries her , and this is actually in Tunisia that his profession of reversion be before an imam. Marrying a muslima if you are non muslim in MENA countries is not an easy feat. Perhaps because you were raised as an American, you have had a different experience. But I can hardly see , lets say, an Algerian muslim woman marrying a Christian man and it being accepted. It wont be and I am sorry its not legal in Islam to do so unless he reverts. So you can pull up all this obscure mumbo jumbo but the fact still stands, if you married outside of islam and he did not revert, you did not follow Islamic law.

I think this topic was posted merely to incite and not to encourage meaningful discussion.

Sarah , you are a rarity and frankly I am sure when you have kids,hubby will be naming them Islamic names if you want to stay married

[monnik 0]

I never got what the big hoopla was over the virgins in paradise. After about a month, maybe less, they're no longer virgins so then what?

I'd rather be on the beach with no fear of burning with a nice good book. That and the ability to eat whatever the heck I want all day every day for eternity with the promise of ALWAYS being a size 6. THAT's paradise to me.

I don't get it either... besides, as far as i'm concerned ... is heaven really a place to be making whoopie ? That whole concept just seems very carnal and gratuitous and not very eternal/spiritual.... IMO

I like your idea of paradise, bridget... although I have no idea what a size 6 would feel like...

[sandinista! 1,816]

I've never had a conversation about the "maidens" with the husband but if he did believe in it it wouldn't bother me. What do I care what happens in the afterlife? Who really knows if these "maidens" really exist? Has anyone come back to confirm this?

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

well that, and the simple fact that i don't confuse my husband's religious beliefs with being at the grocery store where i choose which cherries i want out of the basket, and which ones i'm leaving behind. nor could i imagine myself, for example, saying to a buddhist i'm ok with where you believe in those four noble truths, but i'm really not ok with samsara, and then give a reason why samsara is "wrong" based on my islamic beliefs. i doubt they'd give a ####### why i think samsara is wrong based on my islamic beliefs because they're not muslim...they're buddhist. what does "not being ok with it" mean anyways? what does that entail?

[monnik 0]

Where in the new testament does Jesus, pbuh, say that man should only have one wife?

Better question would be: If it was said, would people believe it ???

Matt 19.8-9, & Mark 10.1-12

It's also mentioned by Paul in Romans 7

Divorce and polygamy are:

Hated by God (Mal 2.16)

Prohibited by Jesus, except in extreme situations (Matt 19).

Permitted by God because of human failings (hard hearts--Mt 19:8)

I was just thinking..... not sure if the concept is the same in Islam, but I will look into it... but in the Bible, Jesus likens the relationship between man & God to the marriage between a man and wife.... if the man is a polygamist, would that make him a polytheist, too ???