What Happens at 2nd Naturalization Interview?

[Harmonia 211]

My husband and I were very disappointed this week. He was told he needs a 2nd interview because he did not demonstrate an ability to speak and understand English and will receive a second interview. What will happen then? Here's what happened.

We filed I-751 ROC in Aug. 2015 and N-400 in May 2016. The I-751 wasn't ever approved, so we reached out to our Congressman once his N-400 was scheduled for Boston. We got a letter from USCIS saying both would be adjudicated at the same time. Our Congressman's office told me to go with my husband because they'd do the I-751 interview first.

We both showed up, he was called, and went back with the adjudicator who was Mr. Singh. I'm not putting his first name on here to protect his privacy, but both first and last name were on a nameplate in his office. Mr. Singh had a strong accent. He asked if I'm the attorney of record, and I said no, I'm the spouse. He said "you aren't supposed to be here". I showed him the USCIS letter saying both I-751 and N-400 would be adjudicated and explained i was told to come. He said he didn't know that and had to log into a different computer system.

Then Mr. Singh said he would do the I-751 first. He said to my husband, "So you are from Colombia?" No, he is from Guatemala. This is what he asked us, both together (not separated/Stokes interview):

1) When and where we were married, and he asked both of us our birth dates. He told my husband to take out his driver's license, green card, and passport, but he didn't have the green card because USCIS took it when he got a stamp after the I-751 extension letter expired in Aug. So, he gave him the extension letter.

2) How we met and what was my husband's status in the US when we met

3) Was my husband ever arrested or deported (no)

4) Where do we live? I told him, and he asked if that's near NY. No, its in Southeast MA near RI.

5) What does my husband do for work

6) What do I do for work. He then asked follow up questions: is that a government job? (no, nonprofit) How is my work funded? (donations, grants, contracts) Am I a lawyer? (no, I work with lawyers and do fundraising)

7) How much is my salary? How much did I make last year?

8) How much is my husband's salary? How much did we make on our taxes last year? I offered to show him the 4 years of IRS transcripts I brought, and he said that wasn't necessary.

9) Where do we live (again)

10) How much is our rent? He commented our rent is cheap. Do we live by NY? No...we live 1 hr 20 min away, south of here, as I stated before.

11) How long have we lived there? We told him and then said, before our current place we lived with my mom, then we lived in another state before. My husband offered to show statements and bills with our address. We had a 2 inch stack of papers on my lap.

12) Do we have kids? No, only a dog and 2 cats.

At that point, another adjudicator knocked on the door and interrupted us to ask if the previous person had left photos. Mr. Singh said no. This other adjudicator also had an accent and appeared to be Latino.

13) Who is our landlord? We told him, and he asked if we have a lease. I said, "I have an old copy of our lease, which I can show you and was also sent in the I-751 packet. But it is expired and we rent month to month without a lease." He seemed confused and said, you pay "$XX" for rent. And you live where again? Near NY? NOTE: We live NOWHERE near NY. We live 4 hours from NY. I do not know why he kept bringing up NY. I said, "No, as I stated, we live 1 hr 20 min from here. You take Rt X to Rt Y. Yes, rent is significantly cheaper. There's a challenge in our city of low income people from Boston moving to our city because rent is so much cheaper and a Section 8 voucher goes a lot further." He asked for our landlord's number. My husband gave him the number. I said, you can call him now but he's a HS teacher and it was during the school day. I stated the landlord owns the house, lives in the bottom unit, and we live in the top. He took the number and never called our landlord.

At that point, Mr. Singh said "I am approving the I-751". He asked me to leave. I left.

About 15 minutes later, my husband came out upset. He had a paper with him showing he passed the civics exam (6/6 right), the written exam, and the oral exam. However, the box was checked saying he did not demonstrate an ability to understand and speak English and a decision could not be made at the time. He thinks it is because he thrice asked Mr. Singh to repeat the question.

Note, I *also* asked Mr. Singh the same thing at one point. I could not understand him due to his accent. I was surprised an immigrant with an accent was interviewing another immigrant with an accent to ascertain his command of English. My husband was told he'll get a follow up letter with a new appointment.

Has this happened to anyone? Will he have an entirely new civics exam? We are frankly concerned. My husband is a supervisor at his workplace, where he manages staff and clients and they all only speak English. He did 4 years of ESL at a state college and a community college. He speaks English every day! He is disappointed and doesn't know what else to study. Its not like he failed the civics test. He got all those answers correct, the first 6 out of 6.

Other notes: Mr. Singh didn't let me show him anything we brought except the USCIS letter saying both applications would be adjudicated at the same appointment and our marriage certificate. He took a photo copy of our marriage certificate at his desk and gave us the original.

We also live in one of the largest cities in MA. I'm surprised he didn't have a basic understanding of the state's geography. We live a mere 50 miles from Boston.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Harmonia

[ptm897 41]

Hello, I interviewed N-400 applications for 10 years in our USCIS office, the 2nd interview will only to be going over what part was not passed on the first interview.

So if that officer indicated that the "speaking/understanding" English part was the reason, then the day of the 2nd interview, which will NOT be with that same officer, we are not allowed to do the 2nd interview if we did the first interview, so let me assure you that Mr. Singh will not be allowed to interview your husband again, there will not be a re-exam of the history/civics questions and he will not be required to read or write the sentence in English, chances are the officer will just go over the application itself, that is how we determine someone's ability to speak and understand English, and if Officer Singh noted the questions in which he felt your husband didn't understand those questions will be circled in red and the 2nd interviewing officer will go over those with your husband.

We have an Officer in our office that also has a very very heavy thick accent, he is from Pakistan and we have had several complaints in the past about applicant's not being able to understand him and I totally understand why, so please tell your husband that for this second interview if the next officer is also hard to understand and he is then told he didn't pass then please tell him that he has a right to ask to speak to a supervisor after the interview is over.

I'm sorry he had this experience with that officer.

When I was interviewing N-400's if I got a case that day for re-exam where the previous officer said the person did not pass the "speaking and understanding" English portion I would simply go over the N-400 with them and focus on the areas that were marked in red. Sometimes it's just the questions and not any of the biographic data, and believe me I have interviewed several people the second time that were said to have not passed the "speaking and understanding" English part and when those people came in front of me, their English was just fine and I had no problems speaking with them, and passed them immediately. There are officers out there that are not very nice and if they are crabby that day they will flunk someone when they get frustrated with them, and there is a reason why the policy is set that the same officer cannot interview that person a second time if they don't pass a portion of the interview the first time.

Before our interviews start on re-exam day we have to go through our bundle and look for any cases that we previously interviewed the first time around and if we have any of them in our bundle we have to exchange them with other officers.

I hope this info has been helpful for you!!! Please tell your husband to try and not worry too much,

[charmander 692]

Funny enough all Western MA counties that are close to the NY border are served by the Lawrence field office. I wonder if he thinks Long Island is connected to Massachusetts or something.

Sorry for the experience, but I'm glad your ROC journey is over. You guys have been waiting for a long while. I'm sure next interview would be a much better experience. I hope you guys get a new date soon and I think the above suggestion is also great, if the 2nd interviewer is also very hard to understand and in the end fails your husband, ask him to speak with the supervisor. Good luck in the 2nd interview and keep us posted how it goes.

[Harmonia 211]

Thank you so much mtp897! That's very good information. My husband is relieved it'll be a different interviewer this time. And thank you Charmander for the support. Maybe Mr. Singh was confused when I said we live south of Boston, near RI. It wouldn't be the first time people hear RI and think Long Island, NY.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Harmonia

[Private One 44]

...About 15 minutes later, my husband came out upset. He had a paper with him showing he passed the civics exam (6/6 right), the written exam, and the oral exam. However, the box was checked saying he did not demonstrate an ability to understand and speak English and a decision could not be made at the time. He thinks it is because he thrice asked Mr. Singh to repeat the question.

Note, I *also* asked Mr. Singh the same thing at one point. I could not understand him due to his accent. I was surprised an immigrant with an accent was interviewing another immigrant with an accent to ascertain his command of English. My husband was told he'll get a follow up letter with a new appointment.

Has this happened to anyone? Will he have an entirely new civics exam? We are frankly concerned. My husband is a supervisor at his workplace, where he manages staff and clients and they all only speak English. He did 4 years of ESL at a state college and a community college. He speaks English every day! He is disappointed and doesn't know what else to study. Its not like he failed the civics test. He got all those answers correct, the first 6 out of 6.

That's a hard pill to swallow. How do you pass someone on civics, written and oral and fail them on the count of not being able to understand and speak English?

@charmander

I think the repetitive asking of the same question "where do you live" was an attempt to see if the answers given were consistent.

[Harmonia 211]

Its been over 2 weeks, and we haven't gotten the 10 year green card or a 2nd appointment letter. The USCIS online system hasn't been updated, either. I know the Thanksgiving holiday may have slowed things down, but waiting is super frustrating!

[TBoneTX 43,422]

Keep the faith.

[Harmonia 211]

He has a 2nd N-400 interview scheduled in a few weeks. We haven't received the 10 year green card yet. I ran into our Congressman's immigration caseworker yesterday at a community event, and she said she will check because we should have received the card within a month after the Nov. interview. But, she said sometimes the field offices forget to tell them to produce the card! 

 

When looking at his case status online, it still says I-751 application received in Aug. 2015. It never changed to biometrics, or anything, since them, let alone approved.

 

Fingers crossed for his 2nd interview. I'm unable to attend due to a work conference, but they wouldn't let me in the room for it anyway. The interview appointment letter is identical to the first one. 

 

 

[charmander 692]

17 hours ago, Harmonia said:

He has a 2nd N-400 interview scheduled in a few weeks. We haven't received the 10 year green card yet. I ran into our Congressman's immigration caseworker yesterday at a community event, and she said she will check because we should have received the card within a month after the Nov. interview. But, she said sometimes the field offices forget to tell them to produce the card! 

 

When looking at his case status online, it still says I-751 application received in Aug. 2015. It never changed to biometrics, or anything, since them, let alone approved.

 

Fingers crossed for his 2nd interview. I'm unable to attend due to a work conference, but they wouldn't let me in the room for it anyway. The interview appointment letter is identical to the first one. 

 

 

USCIS at its best (!). At least they didn't delay his 2nd interview too long. Feels like your spouse may not see his 10 year card ever and go straight to his oath ceremony. Good luck at the interview, keep us posted.

[Ngozi43 3]

all the comments are very helpful to give my husband and I  an idea what to expect....

[prettypass2000 5]

On 1/18/2017 at 4:09 PM, Harmonia said:

He has a 2nd N-400 interview scheduled in a few weeks. We haven't received the 10 year green card yet. I ran into our Congressman's immigration caseworker yesterday at a community event, and she said she will check because we should have received the card within a month after the Nov. interview. But, she said sometimes the field offices forget to tell them to produce the card! 

 

When looking at his case status online, it still says I-751 application received in Aug. 2015. It never changed to biometrics, or anything, since them, let alone approved.

 

Fingers crossed for his 2nd interview. I'm unable to attend due to a work conference, but they wouldn't let me in the room for it anyway. The interview appointment letter is identical to the first one. 

 

 

I don't know if we can trust online status. My N-400 was expedited and I became U.S. Citizen on 12/21/2016. My status had been "My fingerprint was scheduled and ....". It just changed to another status 2 days after I became U.S. citizen. As of today, my status was "my oath ceremony was scheduled....." which is obvious. I already have the naturalization certificate in hand, got my passport, updated my SSN, and registered for voting. I don't know what in the world USCIS has been doing with their online status!!!!!

[ptm897 41]

9 hours ago, prettypass2000 said:

I don't know if we can trust online status. My N-400 was expedited and I became U.S. Citizen on 12/21/2016. My status had been "My fingerprint was scheduled and ....". It just changed to another status 2 days after I became U.S. citizen. As of today, my status was "my oath ceremony was scheduled....." which is obvious. I already have the naturalization certificate in hand, got my passport, updated my SSN, and registered for voting. I don't know what in the world USCIS has been doing with their online status!!!!!

Don't trust the online status updates you get from the website, most of the time they are not accurate at all. We still have too many individual systems that don't talk to each other, however ELIS is now starting to get going the way they are hoping, all the cases I think will eventually move to the one ELIS system so it will hopefully be easier to get updates.

[ptm897 41]

On 12/1/2016 at 11:20 AM, Private One said:

That's a hard pill to swallow. How do you pass someone on civics, written and oral and fail them on the count of not being able to understand and speak English?

@charmander

I think the repetitive asking of the same question "where do you live" was an attempt to see if the answers given were consistent.

It's actually very easy to pass someone on the history/civics yet flunk them on the speaking and understanding.  Usually in these situations people have memorized the history/civics questions yet they really cannot speak and understand basic conversational English and we have no choice but to flunk them on that portion.  In my 10 years of interviewing N-400 applications I can give you example after example of people that came into my office and could not even understand "Please raise your right hand"  when I tried to place them under oath to start the interview.  They have no idea what those words mean, sometimes they are coached to immediately put their right hand up and say Yes when they walk into my office, so when I see them do this I know right off the bat they are being coached by someone telling them what to do and say, these people really do not understand basic English.  They are then motioned to sit down,  we proceed with the history/civics test and they amazingly pass that, but then when I tell them that in order to continue with the interview I need to place them under oath so at this time can you please stand up and raise your right hand they again have no idea what I am saying and sit there with a blank look on their face.  

 

Many of these people, practice very hard to memorize those questions, so when they hear the question or hear a few key words in the question they know which question and then give the answer.  But the problem comes when they do not understand the simple words,  "Please raise your right hand"  and then when I try to put them under oath  "Do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"  they have no idea what I am asking.  They further cannot explain what it means to tell the truth.  

 

Also, sometimes they are able to get through the first part of the application,  going over the N-400 is the way that we determine their speaking and understanding English, if they cannot be placed under oath, they immediately flunk that portion, then if they get through the first few sections like, name, and do you want to change your name, their address, and marital information, if they have children etc.. we get to the questions that they must completely understand and answer in a manner that we know they understand,  this is where many of them that really do not speak and understand basic English are not able to pass and move forward.  The most difficult questions for people that truly cannot understand and speak English are the questions about whether or not they have ever been involved in a terrorist organization, if they have discriminated against anyone, if they have been arrested, if they have ever claimed to be a citizen, which many people don't understand what that question actually means, many of them think it means have you filed for citizenship before.  If people do not understand those questions and it's pretty evident that they have a totally blank look on their face and if we ask them to tell us what a terrorist means to them and they cannot, they will flunk speaking and understanding.

 

I think you might not understand just how prevalent the issue is that people pass the history and civics because they are extensively coached and are taught key words and phrases to pick out of the sentences in order to answer those history civics questions correctly, but in reality they cannot speak a word of English with any understanding of what they are saying, they have just memorized certain words in English in order to pass the test.  

 

Now the situation as explained here in this original post by the OP, I do NOT believe that this is the situation with this posters husband, it is very evident from what she has said here that her husband does speak and understand English but he had a Horrible Horrible Immigration Officer that was either very rude and nasty to him for no reason at all or the actual Officer's way of speaking and heavy accent was the problem, which I have seen before in our own office by one of our officers,  so what I was doing in this response here was giving you the examples of other people that can easily pass the history/civics but really do not speak and understand conversational English at that is how we are able to flunk them on that yet they pass the history/civics portion.

 

I had an older Chinese lady one day in my office that I could not place under oath, she was coached to keep her right hand raised the minute she walked in my office and she tried to do that as soon as we got in my office, and she just kept repeating "Yes" "Yes" and finally when I got her to understand that I wanted her to sit down first, we did the history test and she passed it, got the first 6 questions correct, it was pretty easy to see that she had memorized those questions pretty much word for word. She then wrote one sentence correctly and read one sentence out loud.   Then when I told her in these exact words  "In order to move on to the next part of the interview, I need to place you under oath, so can you please stand up and raise your right hand?"  I repeated that to her 4 times, very slowly and enunciated my words to her very carefully, as a good officer you learn to do that, to slow down your speech when needed and enunciate your words very carefully.  That short set of instructions to her and very basic general English and it was very clear she had absolutely no idea what I was saying to her.  Even though I couldn't place her under oath, I still tried to talk to her with some basic questions like  "How did you get to this office today?"  "Are you here with family members?"   "Do you have a family member waiting here for you?"  "Is there someone I can talk to that can explain why I cannot pass you today?"  

 

So, if we are not able to place someone under oath, we are not allowed to continue on with the interview and we cannot attempt to go over the application with them and we must flunk them that day on speaking and understanding.  One sentence or one word that is not understood is not a basis to flunk someone, but if they are not able to understand the most basic of instructions, like "Please raise your right hand?"  It is pretty evident at that point the person does not speak and understand conversational English at all.  And sadly they must flunk that portion of the exam.  

 

And again I do not feel that the OP of this thread is in this kind of scenario with her husband, I really think her husband had a horrible Officer that should have never ever flunked him.  I'm keeping fingers crossed he gets a much better Officer on his second interview.

 

 

[Private One 44]

@ptm897: Thanks for the insight...

[Harmonia 211]

Our Congressman's staff member got back to us and said USCIS told her his I-751 was indeed approved, as the adjudicator told us. However, they will not issue the 10 year green card unless he doesn't pass the 2nd interview because naturalization is still pending.