EVER - in ANY way - associated with the Communist Party?

[SerenityNOW 11]

I searched the topic of how to answer question 9A on the N-400:

9. Have you ever been a member of or in any way associated (either directly or indirectly) with:

a. The Communist Party?

I found these old threads from more than two years ago asking the same question, but I didn't find that it was fully answered.

http://www.visajourn...n-400-question/

http://www.visajourn...elonging-to-it/

http://www.visajourn...viet-countries/

Here is our situation and what we decided to do:

My husband is from Bulgaria. He was part of the mandatory children's pre-Communist membership (Chavdarcheta/Pioneri/Komsomol) beginning in the first grade and then he served the mandatory 2 years in the army ... but he never joined the Party and a year after he finished his military assignment in 1989, the Communist Party fell.

We answered "No" on the DS230, on which the question was worded differently:

DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING CLASSES APPLY TO YOU?

c. An alien who seeks to enter the United States to engage in espionage, sabotage, export control violations, terrorist

activities, the overthrow of the Government of the United States or other unlawful activity; who is a member of or

affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian party; who participated in Nazi persecutions or genocide; who has

engaged in genocide; or who is a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S.

Secretary of State.

I wanted to answer "No" again on the N-400, but the bolded "ever" and "in any way associated" with italicized "(either directly or indirectly)"makes me think he has to say "Yes"... OF COURSE he was INDIRECTLY - or even DIRECTLY - ASSOCIATED with the Communist Party; everyone was! I just hate the the answers are not going to match up with the earlier form. But as I look at it, the DS230 is asking about current membership/affiliation and the N-400 is asking about ever. So I think it has to be "Yes."

Immigrants from many countries face this same situation. So how did you answer question 9A? I can see both ways of looking at the question. But I am wondering if anyone had first-hand experience, a problem with the interview, etc. Anyone from other ex-Communist countries have any insight? I guess I'm just curious about others' experiences. And what the heck, I welcome speculation as well. I have certainly speculated the topic to death

[v333k 59]

WOW! Tough one...

My suggestion (unless other have better) is to consult with a lawyer. It could be a $200 fee but it is worth paying it rather than mistakenly causing a huge issue answering the question one way or another...

In my opinion, I think even if you answer yes and explain how, it is not grounds for denial naturalization... but it could be a sensitive topic that may require professional assistance.

[OKflyboy 35]

Not before 18 years old, that I'm sure about. And military service, I believe, is a completely different thing, not directly connected to communism. After all, some capitalist countries have mandatory military service.

I was a pioneer myself, but never joined Comsomol.

And my father used to be a member of the Communist Party, but I do not think that means I was associated with it.

I know someone who was asked about there pioneering past at the interview, but it did not affect their application in any way, the IO was just plain curious.

I personally was not asked any additional questions, and I answered NO on the form.

If he was a member of Comsomol after 18 years old, the it is probably a good idea to say YES and explain at the interview.

Edited August 16, 2011 by OKflyboy

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The answer is obviously YES. You do have a chance to explain, you know. To answer no would invite the question, "Well how was he able to avoid mandatory children's membership in his country?"

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yep. Answer truthfully and explain the situation. You get another chance to explain at the interview.

[OKflyboy 35]

The answer is obviously YES. You do have a chance to explain, you know. To answer no would invite the question, "Well how was he able to avoid mandatory children's membership in his country?"

A lot of people answer no and do not invite this question, because they were children and had no say in the matter. You are only responsible for that stuff if you're 18 or older. Joining the communist party would definitely be a conscious decision, as well as joining or not leaving comsomol.

Anyway, this should not be grounds for denying the application.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yes, they had no say in the matter, so why lie about it? Answering yes is not grounds for denying the application.

[OKflyboy 35]

Yes, they had no say in the matter, so why lie about it? Answering yes is not grounds for denying the application.

True.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It is just a legacy question. Far as I know, we are not at war with the Communists, well, except North Korea and Cuba.

[freetv 7]

The military makes the question into a "yes" not the children part..... There are tons of countries that require child to join some form of children's communist party. Saying something like "oh how I love the motherland, people make it great..." blah blah as a 8 year old kid DOES NOT make you a communist party member as eluded to in the N-400 since they are TWO SEPARATE THINGS. Don't you think uscis and the state department know about children parties? One of the questions at the consulate in China is "Have you EVER been a member of the communist party", EVERYONE would answer YES if they went to school for even a half second.... but what they mean is the ADULT communist party.... any vo will tell you that.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I think this question is a simple one: yes, anyone from a (former?) communist country has at least been indirectly involved with the communist party. Why do you think that's a trick question? If I was a young boy in NAZI Germany serving in the Hitler Youth at my parents' demand without any say in this, I too would have been indirectly, perhaps even directly, involved with the NAZI party.

Duhh!

[rika60607 215]

I would say no.

The trick here is how to understand associated or involved... and those are vague words that could be on extreme understood as "did you ever talk to anyone who's a member of Communist party"?..

So I'd say that as long as he was never a member of the party and did not participate in its meetings... it's a No. If you are anxious about it, you could discuss it at the interview to make sure you understood the question correctly.

Bob, by your logic, you surely were involved with the Nazi party - you are German, so surely some grandparent or distant uncle was in it!

Edited August 17, 2011 by rika60607

[NickD 202]

Ha, I was tempted to answer yes on this question as we are heavily taxed for welfare, education, and healthcare cost for other people that definitely fits the description of a communistic socialistic society. Really don't feel like I own my home, if I fail to pay property taxes, will get kicked out of it and will be auctioned off. So who really owns your property, is it you or the government? Try and drive your own vehicle without paying a registration tax first, you will quickly learn who actually owns your vehicle.

Was forced to fight in a war on the supposition was fighting against the spread of communism. These were anything but communistic countries, ran by a dictator that cares nothing about the welfare of his own people where everything is supposed to be shared equally. Those bastards like ours sat in a nice air conditioned office sipping on tea or whatever. My choice at the time was to either run off to Canada, when you could, go to jail, or take an oath to defend this country. Really wonder how legal that oath was given the alternatives. Another way out was to have a rich old man that could send me to Harvard so I could become a draft dodging president someday.

What these so-called communistic countries have, is less than 10% of the population are members of the party, and that is the way they could improve their standard of living. Not much different here the way this country as become in the last 40 years where less than 10% of this country controls over 90% of the wealth. We cannot deduct our cost of transportation to work or school, but these billionaires sure can and at 100%.

So called communistic countries are no more socialistic than what we call a democracy in this country, both are ran by dictators. Our corporations are nothing more than dictators, tell you how to dress, how to behave, when to be at work, and when you can have a little time off. And for that matter, so are our churches. Don't even think about not sending your kid to school, the police will be over in seconds.

So are you from a country where the common people owned everything and the wealth was shared equally? If not, certainly couldn't be a member of the communism party, because that doesn't even exist.

But that is not how our government defines communism, and dealing with a very strong dictatorship called the USCIS that has absolute control over whether you can live with your loved one or not. So I would answer yes with a full explanation as to your forced circumstances. If you answer no and in their opinion was born in a so-called communistic country, can deport you.

Oh, this place of birth thing, its not that any of us had a choice of where we were born.

[bigdog 376]

I searched the topic of how to answer question 9A on the N-400:

I found these old threads from more than two years ago asking the same question, but I didn't find that it was fully answered.

http://www.visajourn...n-400-question/

http://www.visajourn...elonging-to-it/

http://www.visajourn...viet-countries/

Here is our situation and what we decided to do:

My husband is from Bulgaria. He was part of the mandatory children's pre-Communist membership (Chavdarcheta/Pioneri/Komsomol) beginning in the first grade and then he served the mandatory 2 years in the army ... but he never joined the Party and a year after he finished his military assignment in 1989, the Communist Party fell.

We answered "No" on the DS230, on which the question was worded differently:

I wanted to answer "No" again on the N-400, but the bolded "ever" and "in any way associated" with italicized "(either directly or indirectly)"makes me think he has to say "Yes"... OF COURSE he was INDIRECTLY - or even DIRECTLY - ASSOCIATED with the Communist Party; everyone was! I just hate the the answers are not going to match up with the earlier form. But as I look at it, the DS230 is asking about current membership/affiliation and the N-400 is asking about ever. So I think it has to be "Yes."

Immigrants from many countries face this same situation. So how did you answer question 9A? I can see both ways of looking at the question. But I am wondering if anyone had first-hand experience, a problem with the interview, etc. Anyone from other ex-Communist countries have any insight? I guess I'm just curious about others' experiences. And what the heck, I welcome speculation as well. I have certainly speculated the topic to death

Just because your wife or husband grew up in a communist country does not make them a communist. The key is were they a party member they will know. My wife was not and is not.

[Casprd 167]

If he never joined the communist party then the answer is no and no. Being in a youth group that is organized by the communists is not the same as being a communist party memeber or affiliated with the communist party. Unless the military requires communist party membership which they generally didn't for conscripts to my knowledge then it is still no. My wife's father was a public official in China and her brother is a police officer, both of which require party membership. She wasn't a member however and their membership didn't affiliate her with the communist party. When they are talking affiliated that would be working for a party member or working in an office that is heavily involved in the party. You can spend a couple hundred bucks to confirm this with an attorney or you could even call the DOS hotline and ask them to be sure. You can always include the letter explaining that he was part of a required youth group.