Empress of Groovy

I'm sorry - but that's highly dubious. How on Earth could Charles' post be construed to be "useful to the discussion"? He took a post from a forum he moderates and posted it here to suggest that Marc's previous personal attack was somehow justified.
Whatever protestations of innocent intent Charles may have given you behind the scenes, it was clearly antagonistic and added nothing whatsoever to the discussion in this thread.
It's one thing to throw out a misogynist insult at a woman, as I believe Marc did in the post that was originally referenced. That was indeed completely unprovoked and inappropriate. It should have been deleted and if the standards that are applied to these things are followed - he should have been suspended for it. For the reasons you gave, moderation is inconsistent; and clearly Marc wasn't punished for it. If the point was that a suspension doled out for posting an obscene poem, but not for a direct, very offensive personal attack against a member, I think you have to start asking where VJ moderation's priorities are. Because calling a VJ member a ####### seems rather more offensive to me than a scattering of swear words or descriptions of sexually explicit acts.
The fact is, this is a forum of adults. People are going to post lewd things, descriptions of dates that they've had; there are even past threads about people's sexual encounters. Where it goes wrong is when VJ members start using people's personal information for the purposes of personal attacks. Just because someone gives out a handjob on a date and says so, it does not mean that they are a #######.

Cordoba House will be a community center with a mosque in it, not a mosque with a community center in it. There will be no call to prayer ringing out from it. For your information, btw, there is already a mosque, the Masjid al-Farah, in the same area as the disputed Cordoba House, and it was there on 9/11. Where is the object to that mosque on "hallowed ground"?
The overly emotional and inaccurate basis for opposing the center stems from the proprietary notion that only non-Muslims have a right to determine what is sacred about the site and who is allowed to participate in the grief and rebuilding. They have decided that Muslim New Yorkers are to be excluded and that Muslim 9/11 families are to be marginalized, but, on the other hand, strip clubs, bookie joints and bars are acceptable on hallowed ground.
Ironically, they forget that Muslim victims were also murdered on 9/11, and that far more Muslims than non-Muslims have been murdered in terrorist acts. They rabidly spit on Muslim dead and on their grieving families, who have never been depicted as victims due to their suspect status, which is primary in the mind of the haters. The family of Abul K. Chowdhury doesn't count; the family of Mohammed Salahuddin Chowdhury doesn't count; the family of Aisha Harris doesn't count; the families of Michael Theodoridis, his wife, Rahma Salie, and their unborn child don't count, the family of Ehtesham U. Raja doesn't count. I could go on; there are many forgotten murdered Muslims who were victims of 9/11, but, in the minds of the self-righteous and narrow-minded, they don't count because their deaths are not worthy, and probably justified as well-deserved, due to their faith being defined as foreign, hostile, un-American and outside the "norm".
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Being that the opposition has drawn a bright line, putting their self-indulgent position on the side of the aggrieved and all Muslims who disagree with defining the dialogue in Christian terms on the side of the perpetrators, they feel justified applying their selective application of the inalienable rights granted in the Constitution. The founders may have made freedom of religion their Number 1 right, but as long as the hysteria they have worked up by falsifying Islam as an evil cult works, go with it. After all, it worked to block a proposed mosque on Staten Island, so it should work in Manhattan.
This debate has exposed the fact that there are a lot of narrow minds out there, and that narrow minds can be easily manipulated into legitimizing and actualizing the terrorist claims of a war against Islam in America, a war against Muslims in America. The hyperbolic and hateful dialectic of the opposition has given substantive evidence to radical Muslims that no Muslim can be "good" enough, "decent" enough, "westernized" enough, or dead enough to be acceptable to non-Muslim Americans. They have bought into and legitimized the terrorist rhetoric that Islam commands division and subjugation by dividing us and subjugating the efforts of Muslims to dialogue from their point of view. They have become the enemy of unity.
Remember, the whole world's watching this, and a large slice of the audience is Muslim. You reap what you sow.

I was just going to say...
At the risk of sounding like a "legacy member" whose experience is now irrelevant to those currently going through the process, this is more of the same. I wouldn't say it's a cycle necessarily, but a sort of constant state that might change venues (i.e., forums) and then back again. There are personality conflicts all the time, some of them longstanding and more or less limited to OT, and some in other forums. It's inevitable on a site like this, with mostly user-generated content and its basis in people sharing their experiences while going through a very stressful process. "VJ just isn't what it used to be" has been a complaint pretty much since the site's inception. It's true that some people can be abrasive in responding to new posters; I don't think too many people would deny that. However, some members, particularly newcomers who might not take the time to do some basic research and become familiar with the general tone of the site, are very thin-skinned and can turn a thread into a sh!tslinging match very quickly.
I think the tricky part is the extent to which the moderation team should get involved in threads in which clear TOS violations are not taking place. It's not against the TOS (I don't think) to take what might be perceived as an insensitive tone with someone, and I don't think it's a mod's place to finger-wag and tell adults to play nice. It's condescending. I do think that overall, VJ is a welcoming place, but a sense of humor and the ability to take advice gracefully are crucial.
Also, it's the height of message board rudeness to call someone a troll.

I was just going to say...
At the risk of sounding like a "legacy member" whose experience is now irrelevant to those currently going through the process, this is more of the same. I wouldn't say it's a cycle necessarily, but a sort of constant state that might change venues (i.e., forums) and then back again. There are personality conflicts all the time, some of them longstanding and more or less limited to OT, and some in other forums. It's inevitable on a site like this, with mostly user-generated content and its basis in people sharing their experiences while going through a very stressful process. "VJ just isn't what it used to be" has been a complaint pretty much since the site's inception. It's true that some people can be abrasive in responding to new posters; I don't think too many people would deny that. However, some members, particularly newcomers who might not take the time to do some basic research and become familiar with the general tone of the site, are very thin-skinned and can turn a thread into a sh!tslinging match very quickly.
I think the tricky part is the extent to which the moderation team should get involved in threads in which clear TOS violations are not taking place. It's not against the TOS (I don't think) to take what might be perceived as an insensitive tone with someone, and I don't think it's a mod's place to finger-wag and tell adults to play nice. It's condescending. I do think that overall, VJ is a welcoming place, but a sense of humor and the ability to take advice gracefully are crucial.
Also, it's the height of message board rudeness to call someone a troll.

I was just going to say...
At the risk of sounding like a "legacy member" whose experience is now irrelevant to those currently going through the process, this is more of the same. I wouldn't say it's a cycle necessarily, but a sort of constant state that might change venues (i.e., forums) and then back again. There are personality conflicts all the time, some of them longstanding and more or less limited to OT, and some in other forums. It's inevitable on a site like this, with mostly user-generated content and its basis in people sharing their experiences while going through a very stressful process. "VJ just isn't what it used to be" has been a complaint pretty much since the site's inception. It's true that some people can be abrasive in responding to new posters; I don't think too many people would deny that. However, some members, particularly newcomers who might not take the time to do some basic research and become familiar with the general tone of the site, are very thin-skinned and can turn a thread into a sh!tslinging match very quickly.
I think the tricky part is the extent to which the moderation team should get involved in threads in which clear TOS violations are not taking place. It's not against the TOS (I don't think) to take what might be perceived as an insensitive tone with someone, and I don't think it's a mod's place to finger-wag and tell adults to play nice. It's condescending. I do think that overall, VJ is a welcoming place, but a sense of humor and the ability to take advice gracefully are crucial.
Also, it's the height of message board rudeness to call someone a troll.

Even though I'm not even sure you're real, Melissa, I'm going to respond honestly for the sake of others who have the same questions who may be reading this.
I think it's easy to blame the 'visa strain' when in reality, it may be something intrinsically wrong. Not saying that it's always the case, but sometimes it is.
People have a way of romanticizing the distance, and rewriting history to make things better in retrospect than they actually were. I will share, to explain. As most of you old timers know, I was in a dual country relationship for 8 years, with the majority of that time being irl. I lived over in England and had a great time. He wanted to get married, I just wanted to have fun and be a carefree 20-something year old: travel, party, shop, etc. We lived together, and we had a blast. I moved back to the US, and finally accepted his marriage proposal and we began making concrete plans for the future.
The distance did put a strain on things, and I did blame 'The Distance' a lot. But in reality, it was more than distance: it was character flaws, incompatibility, etc. But I would always chalk it up to 'visa stress' and 'distance'. It was easier to do that than to take a hard look at my then-partner and wonder if the eyes that I looked at him with while we were 'just having fun' were actually measuring him as a potential life partner, or I just looked at him thru these 'oh he's giving up country to be with me! How awesome are we!!!??' eyes.
In the end, I did a lot of soul searching and realized that our 'visa journey'...as many others here, was pretty straightforward, so what's with all the 'stress' being the root cause of every problem? The same traits I enjoyed as a single woman with him were the very same ones I had problems with looking at him as a potential husband. And as far as 'stress' is concerned: as I say, go look in the waivers forum and look at all the couples who pull together as a cohesive unit while spending years apart with nothing but uncertainty hanging over them. Go look at military families who spend days on end apart, with spouses not knowing if their SOs are even alive at the end of the day. 'Visa stress' for a straightforward case iint he UK especially, is bollocks imo. It's a flippin cake walk. And although some might call me jaded, I happen to think that I am pretty well balanced and matter of fact. No one's shooting at you, as my dad would say.
So my advice for ANYONE would be to really look at your partner and see that person's true character. Take off the rose colored glasses with how romantic it all is, how the accent is so cute, how he or she is giving up this that and the other to be with you. If your SO is displaying traits which cause problems, then don't take the easy way out and blame 'visa stress' or 'distance', but really decide for yourself if you can live with that person. Because once you sign that I184, you are on the hook. And also, eta: those traits are coming over with your SO when the visa's here.

yes, black people should have just forgave and accepted their separate lunch counters and drinking fountains. there's other places to eat and drink. jews should have just accepted and forgave wasps who didn't want to have to golf behind them at their country clubs. lots of other green places to putt exist. gay people should just get over it if a landlord doesn't want rent them an apartment cause they're the same gender..there's lots of other apartments out there. the whole 14th amendment is just ridiculous because all those pesky, whiny minorities in the united states couldn't "rise above the pettiness and narrow-mindedness and lose themselves in the love for _______ ... somewhere else". this country has been there before already. it wasn't better for it. and going somewhere else didn't change it, fighting for their rights no matter how uncomfortable or pissed off it made some people did.

that, and maybe she's just sick of having to explain this shite ad freaking nauseam every 2 weeks that one of these retards pop up in off topic with the same lines, over and over and over. same shite, different day. it gets old.

Strange, I was thinking about toning down the bling and limiting the glitter to the Joyce fetus, but now I can't on principle.

Strange, I was thinking about toning down the bling and limiting the glitter to the Joyce fetus, but now I can't on principle.

I thought this was clear from the beginning.

I thought this was clear from the beginning.

he is saying he finds his wife more attrative then Gary's.. as in that is his own opinion..
every man has different things they are attracted to in a woman..

So russians are immune from turning into haggard mingers? I think that's a fairly universal characteristic with age. Don't believe me, go to Brighton Beach, or even Fairfax district here in L.A..

It's all about the skillz, not the $$.

Geez, Marc, all this time I took you for someone with a solid customer service orientation.

I don't see anything wrong with a survivor dancing to "I WILL SURVIVE" with his daughter and grandkids. He clearly is celebrating his life that he somehow managed to survive that place.
We all look back at our own history in different ways. Some people throw divorce parties. Some people throw a party when someone dies to celebrate their life. It's his personal story in this case, he clearly wasn't trying to represent those who perished. Let him be.

So...a cheatin' bastid has a change of heart and decides to stay with his saintly old lady. Is there a Part 2 in which he gets his violent comeuppance?

Whenever a thread veers toward Metamucil, it's a reason to celebrate.

Plenty of em and that's for sure.
Been to Odessa - but I prefer someone with a bit more meat on em and lower heels
you will know what I am saying
chuckle

Paul, are you aware that you're an idiot? I just want to make sure that you are aware of this fact. If you didn't know, consider this to be a friendly reminder.

The thing is, people get overly emotional when people criticize their country. If I were to take a step back and view what you said objectively, I would say you're completely right. The UK has a drinking culture that is unlike any other - it's not unusual to drink alcohol every day in different circumstances as to us, it's a social practice. We have more binge drinking than anywhere else in Europe. And we also take football extremely seriously. Put those together, and you get the stereotype about our violent hooligans. It wouldn't be fair to say that all British people are alcoholic hooligans, but there is an element of truth to it.
In the same way, most people around the world view Americans as extremely patriotic - not in the good way of being proud of their country - but in the ignorant and cocky way. And even though not every person is like that, there is an element of truth to that as well. Never in my life have I seen so many flags on a street, so many references to the country and its greatness, such a lack of awareness about the world, such a separation between laws and country, and I live in New England which is supposedly not so bad. Every time I hear someone over here saying that America is great for freedom, I always speak up and point out that there are plenty of other countries that have MORE freedom. The response is always to compare it with Middle Eastern countries, but there's nothing new there. Canada, every country in Europe, Australia, NZ, Japan, etc... these all have the same freedom (if not more), yet the only country that boasts about this is America.
I'm not trying to put Americans down, and there's nothing wrong with being patriotic. But there is a difference in being proud of your country, and being ignorant to other ones, and I think the concept of America to most around the world is that they have issues with the second. Whether you take that stereotype as valid or not is up to you. Excuse me while I go back to my vodka and run through the streets screaming with rage at England's performance last week.

Cool. I can dig it.
Got you down to (up to?) -10.
(from -11, that is)

Hrrrrmmm. Let's see. The main players are Melissa (USC) and Julian (UKC). Melissa asked a question about "what is a touch" and the appropriate n00b beatdown ensued. Julian came in and accused everyone of being big meanies who are incapable of answering pressing immigration questions like "what is a touch." Then everyone called him a pompous, condescending ####### who thought his money (oh yeah, he's filthy rich) meant that he could buy respect. Somehow along the way, Melissa's blog was discovered, which has been a font of all sorts of interesting information, not least the incident where her Julian's best friend sent her a photo of her fiance appearing to snort blow off a hooker's #######. Then everyone dogpiled on Julian; JohnnyQuest practically challenged him to a duel. Julian denied the veracity of the photo and appears to have convinced Melissa it isn't real. Melissa took down the blog post but continues to blog. Julian looks like a douchebag of the highest order and is manipulating his fiancee. Oh, and I met Melissa a little while back so I have unwittingly become a bit player in this whole drama.
Is that it, everyone?

Allow me to step in.
Feminists, particularly American feminists, are angry, neurotic, self-loathing women with no fashion sense, cooking skills, or ability to walk several miles on cobblestone in stilettos, without complaint. If a man unfortunate or stupid enough to marry her requests a sandwich (with real mayo), he can expect a slug in the gut while her feminist sisters cheer her on.