Esta help

[azizsawo9901 0]

Hi everyone,

I have a minor UK conviction for fare evasion that is recorded only in court records not on police databases or the Police National Computer only court record. I’m not sure how this might affect my eligibility for ESTA or if I should apply for a B1/B2 visa instead.

The current ESTA criminal question asks if I’ve committed an offense involving serious harm to a person, property, or government authority, which I don’t believe applies to my case. But I’m uncertain if I need to disclose the conviction and how it might impact future U.S. travel especially a k-1

I’d really appreciate any advice or experiences from others who’ve dealt with minor UK convictions and U.S. entry.

[appleblossom 4,512]

15 minutes ago, azizsawo9901 said:

Hi everyone,

I have a minor UK conviction for fare evasion that is recorded only in court records not on police databases or the Police National Computer only court record. I’m not sure how this might affect my eligibility for ESTA or if I should apply for a B1/B2 visa instead.

The current ESTA criminal question asks if I’ve committed an offense involving serious harm to a person, property, or government authority, which I don’t believe applies to my case. But I’m uncertain if I need to disclose the conviction and how it might impact future U.S. travel especially a k-1

I’d really appreciate any advice or experiences from others who’ve dealt with minor UK convictions and U.S. entry.

Fare evasion = theft. You need to tick yes and disclose it, see if the ESTA is granted and if not apply for a B. 
 

Ditto for the K, you’d declare it but it shouldn’t impact it. 

[azizsawo9901 0]

Cheers so I do that on the renewal one right and I’m assuming it’s only for question two and it’ll most likely reject me than accept 

[Boiler 47,533]

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?

 

I will be contrary and say no for ESTA/VWP. Under the old wording I would have said yes and I assume they loosened it for a reason.

 

I do agree that they ask have you ever, not can we find it, is it still recorded etc.

[appleblossom 4,512]

28 minutes ago, azizsawo9901 said:

Cheers so I do that on the renewal one right and I’m assuming it’s only for question two and it’ll most likely reject me than accept 

If you already have an ESTA you need to reapply now -

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en

 

When do I need to reapply for an ESTA?

A new travel authorization may be required in any of the following circumstances:

• The traveler is issued a new passport
• The traveler changes his or her name
• The traveler's country of citizenship changes; or
• The circumstances underlying the traveler's previous responses to any of the ESTA application questions requiring a "yes" or "no" response have changed.

 

It may accept you, no way of knowing in advance. 

Edited yesterday at 01:14 PM by appleblossom

[azizsawo9901 0]

1 hour ago, appleblossom said:

If you already have an ESTA you need to reapply now -

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en

 

When do I need to reapply for an ESTA?

A new travel authorization may be required in any of the following circumstances:

• The traveler is issued a new passport
• The traveler changes his or her name
• The traveler's country of citizenship changes; or
• The circumstances underlying the traveler's previous responses to any of the ESTA application questions requiring a "yes" or "no" response have changed.

 

It may accept you, no way of knowing in advance. 

Alright thanks just question 2 i need to tick right i dont know if they can check what my offence even was or anything 

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?

 

I will be contrary and say no for ESTA/VWP. Under the old wording I would have said yes and I assume they loosened it for a reason.

 

I do agree that they ask have you ever, not can we find it, is it still recorded etc.

Thats the part which gets me caude of the old wording but i get like mixed responses from everyone some say to say yes some say no

[appleblossom 4,512]

15 minutes ago, azizsawo9901 said:

Alright thanks just question 2 i need to tick right i dont know if they can check what my offence even was or anything 

Thats the part which gets me caude of the old wording but i get like mixed responses from everyone some say to say yes some say no

If a K-1 visa is in your future then don’t risk it unless you have written advice from a lawyer. Just say yes, I can’t see how theft wouldn’t be considered damage personally. 
 

And of course they can check, plus you’ll have to provide evidence anyway. 

[azizsawo9901 0]

6 minutes ago, appleblossom said:

If a K-1 visa is in your future then don’t risk it unless you have written advice from a lawyer. Just say yes, I can’t see how theft wouldn’t be considered damage personally. 
 

And of course they can check, plus you’ll have to provide evidence anyway. 

Provide evidence for the esta im assuming as i thought it was just automatically a denial 

but only problem is i dont know how they can check because its not on police databases or the Police National Computer its just court records unless they can get court records but yeah my situation would have changed from then because when i did my fare evasion i was doing it to go to my volunteering job and at the time i had like -£30 to my name no income etc which would show in my court record as they ask for my income but now thats all changed

Edited yesterday at 03:02 PM by azizsawo9901

[azizsawo9901 0]

also nacro the charity org the court told me to contact said
Similarly, with the ESTA application, you are correct that the form does ask specifically about offences constitution moral turpitude. However, the US Embassy advice states that ‘if you have ever been arrested or convicted for any reason in any country, even if the arrest did not lead to a conviction, you should answer ‘yes’ to this question.’ I think you will be absolutely fine not disclosing this on an ESTA application as it is such a low level offence, but the official advice from US is that you should.

[appleblossom 4,512]

1 hour ago, azizsawo9901 said:

also nacro the charity org the court told me to contact said
Similarly, with the ESTA application, you are correct that the form does ask specifically about offences constitution moral turpitude. However, the US Embassy advice states that ‘if you have ever been arrested or convicted for any reason in any country, even if the arrest did not lead to a conviction, you should answer ‘yes’ to this question.’ I think you will be absolutely fine not disclosing this on an ESTA application as it is such a low level offence, but the official advice from US is that you should.

Well, you can safely ignore that advice. They don’t even know that the form doesn’t ask about crimes of moral turpitude any longer - and that changed years ago! So I wouldn’t heed any advice from them. 
 

I don’t know why your conviction wouldn’t show up on the PNC, but have you ordered your ACRO certificate to check? 
 

As said above, ask a genuine (registered with AILA) immigration lawyer if you want a definitive answer. Nobody else. 

[azizsawo9901 0]

6 minutes ago, appleblossom said:

Well, you can safely ignore that advice. They don’t even know that the form doesn’t ask about crimes of moral turpitude any longer - and that changed years ago! So I wouldn’t heed any advice from them. 
 

I don’t know why your conviction wouldn’t show up on the PNC, but have you ordered your ACRO certificate to check? 
 

As said above, ask a genuine (registered with AILA) immigration lawyer if you want a definitive answer. Nobody else. 

I just got the advice as the court told me to also for alot of people it doesnt show up on a pnc as its just a summary offence so fine unpaid fares n legal costs from an online search it says bye-law and regulatory offences do not show on a pnc as its non recordable but it stays on court records only i could be wrong so i will wait on acro

i will be ordering an acro in 1 months time to let time pass and i will try find a lawer from AILA

[appleblossom 4,512]

32 minutes ago, azizsawo9901 said:

I just got the advice as the court told me to also for alot of people it doesnt show up on a pnc as its just a summary offence so fine unpaid fares n legal costs from an online search it says bye-law and regulatory offences do not show on a pnc as its non recordable but it stays on court records only i could be wrong so i will wait on acro

i will be ordering an acro in 1 months time to let time pass and i will try find a lawer from AILA

 

I think ordering your ACRO is a good starting point, any conviction should show up on there, regardless of the nature of it - even a caution would do. So I'd be very surprised if it wasn't on there.

 

 

 

 

[smilingstone 640]

6 hours ago, Boiler said:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority?

Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?

 

I will be contrary and say no for ESTA/VWP. Under the old wording I would have said yes and I assume they loosened it for a reason.

 

I do agree that they ask have you ever, not can we find it, is it still recorded etc.

 

Agreed. Wording is rather specific on ESTA application. Myself, I had previous shoplifting charge, did not answer yes to that question as the shoplifting did not result in any damage to property, serious or not, government or not. Had no issues getting ESTA and using it for multiple trips. 

 

K1 and AOS, however, are different and ask if you have been convicted of any crime, at any time, anywhere. Obviously for this the answer would be YES. 

 

To OP, I wouldn't worry about it. On visa applications (not ESTA) you have ample opportunity to explain your conviction. Being detailed and emphasising that it was unpaid public transport. I would even disclose the amount, which is what, 2 or 3 quid? USCIS isn't going to care about that, but what they will care about is if you don't disclose it when you need to. 

Edited 23 hours ago by smilingstone

[appleblossom 4,512]

51 minutes ago, smilingstone said:

 

Agreed. Wording is rather specific on ESTA application. Myself, I had previous shoplifting charge, did not answer yes to that question as the shoplifting did not result in any damage to property, serious or not, government or not.

 

Interesting, I thought any kind of theft was always a 'yes' to that question. We don't know what kind of fare the OP was evading, but for 40+ journeys on the train, even if it was £5 a ticket (could well have been ten times that of course) , that's a pretty hefty amount and I'd argue that would mean a 'yes' as it would have resulted in serious damage to the company if he hadn't been caught and had to pay it back. 

[Crazy Cat 44,619]

Given the scrutiny some applications are getting under the current administration, disclosing and explaining is better than not disclosing at all.