I-864 Assets Question

[seekingthetruth 1,248]

I just realized today that I will need to throw in some assets to supplement my income on the i-864.  Not a big deal but a few questions to make sure I do it right.

 

I reviewed some recent asset topics and it was mentioned  a few times that the assets should have been held for a year.  I do not see anything about that in the I-864 instructions.  Is that really a thing?  I do see where they ask for the acquisition date but nothing more.

 

The reason I ask is this.  One of my assets is our house here in the Philippines, which is for sale.  After we sell, I will transfer the cash to my U.S. bank account, where it will appear as a "new" cash asset.  Will they have questions about this "new" asset.  I was thinking about including an explanation and a copy of the deed of sale.  Also, I will be moving around some other cash assets when we ready to move.

 

If possible, I am going to just show cash assets and not get into investments.

[SalishSea 17,937]

23 minutes ago, seekingthetruth said:

I just realized today that I will need to throw in some assets to supplement my income on the i-864.  Not a big deal but a few questions to make sure I do it right.

 

I reviewed some recent asset topics and it was mentioned  a few times that the assets should have been held for a year.  I do not see anything about that in the I-864 instructions.  Is that really a thing?  I do see where they ask for the acquisition date but nothing more.

 

The reason I ask is this.  One of my assets is our house here in the Philippines, which is for sale.  After we sell, I will transfer the cash to my U.S. bank account, where it will appear as a "new" cash asset.  Will they have questions about this "new" asset.  I was thinking about including an explanation and a copy of the deed of sale.  Also, I will be moving around some other cash assets when we ready to move.

 

If possible, I am going to just show cash assets and not get into investments.

I think that’s fine, as you will have a paper trail to show that the cash came from the sale of real estate.   The problem is more when people try to improve their finances “on paper” via large deposits of gift money or loans from relatives.   The key is just having good documentation to show the source of the money.

[Redro 4,611]

6 hours ago, seekingthetruth said:

I just realized today that I will need to throw in some assets to supplement my income on the i-864.  Not a big deal but a few questions to make sure I do it right.

 

I reviewed some recent asset topics and it was mentioned  a few times that the assets should have been held for a year.  I do not see anything about that in the I-864 instructions.  Is that really a thing?  I do see where they ask for the acquisition date but nothing more.

 

The reason I ask is this.  One of my assets is our house here in the Philippines, which is for sale.  After we sell, I will transfer the cash to my U.S. bank account, where it will appear as a "new" cash asset.  Will they have questions about this "new" asset.  I was thinking about including an explanation and a copy of the deed of sale.  Also, I will be moving around some other cash assets when we ready to move.

 

If possible, I am going to just show cash assets and not get into investments.

We used assets and did not show they had been held for 12 months. 
BUT, I think people get confused and take the instruction the assets should be held for the 12 months prior with the actual rule in the I864 “Financial sponsors can only include assets that are convertible into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the sponsor and his/her family.”

Although, I feel I have seen the 12 month rule on the USCIS website but I might also be confusing the same two rules. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by ROK2USA

[seekingthetruth 1,248]

1 hour ago, ROK2USA said:

BUT, I think people get confused and take the instruction the assets should be held for the 12 months prior with the actual rule in the I864 “Financial sponsors can only include assets that are convertible into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the sponsor and his/her family.”

Yes, I was also thinking that maybe that "convertible to cash within one year" might have been the root cause of the "held for one year" misinterpretation, if it is a misinterpretation.

[Adventine 3,201]

@seekingthetruth I believe that bit about the 12 months comes directly from reading the Dept of State's field manual. Here is the link and the relevant section:

 

Source: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html

 

Quote

 

  (U) An applicant may establish the adequacy of financial resources by submitting evidence of bank deposits, ownership of property or real estate, ownership of stocks and bonds, insurance policies, or income from business investments sufficient to provide for their needs, as well as those of any dependent family member, until suitable employment is located.  The amount sufficient will depend on the applicant's age, physical condition, and family circumstances and size.

(i)     (U) Bank Deposits—Applicants relying on bank deposits to meet the public charge requirements should present as evidence a letter signed by a senior officer of the bank over the officer's title, showing:

(A)    (U) The date the account was opened;

(B)    (U) The number of deposits and withdrawals and amount of money moved during the last 12 months. This information may prevent attempted abuse such as an initial deposit of a substantial sum of money being made within a relatively short time before the IV application;

(C)    (U) The present balance; and

(D)    (U) How the money, if in a foreign bank in foreign currency, is to be transferred to the United States.

(ii)    (U) Real estate investments—Evidence of property ownership may be in the form of a title deed or equivalent or certified copies.  The applicant must satisfy you as to the plans for disposal or rental of such property and the way the income from the property (if abroad) is to be transferred to the United States for the applicant's support.

(iii)    (U) Stocks and Bonds—Evidence of income from these sources should indicate present cash value or expected earnings and, if the income is derived from a source outside the United States, a statement as to how the income is to be transferred to the United States.

(iv)   (U) Income from business investments; or

(v)    (U) Insurance policies.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Adventine

[Redro 4,611]

5 minutes ago, Adventine said:

@seekingthetruth I believe that bit about the 12 months comes directly from reading the Dept of State's field manual. Here is the link and the relevant section:

 

Source: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html

 

 

Thank you for finding it @Adventine... I was sure I had seen it but forgot where... as stated before we only showed about 6 months of statements at NVC. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by ROK2USA

[seekingthetruth 1,248]

9 minutes ago, Adventine said:

@seekingthetruth I believe that bit about the 12 months comes directly from reading the Dept of State's field manual. Here is the link and the relevant section:

 

Source: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html

 

 

Thanks so much!  Very helpful for my planning.  If I sell the house before visa approval, I might just keep the money in my BPI account here.  I am good friends with the manager and I am sure he would be happy to help me with a letter.  On the other hand, my US bank is Chase and I no longer have a personal relationship with any branch.  It might be hard to get a letter. 

 

I can use my investment accounts if needed, but I hope to just use cash accounts.  Which brings up a question.  Do they just want to see the minimum required assets to cover the income shortfall, or do they want to dig into total assets?  I was preferring just to show cash assets for privacy reasons only.

 

Thought of a few more questions!  😉

 

I am doing two I-864.  One for my wife and one for my step daughter.  As I understand it, for spouse, assets required are 3X the income shortfall.  E.G., 125% of poverty level = 40,000, income = 30,000, shortfall = 10,000.  3X 10,000 = 30,000 assets required, minimum.

 

How about my step daughter?  She is 5X?  Do I just consider her completely separately and provide the 5X without any linkage to my wife?

 

Last q for now.  I asked about this a few years ago but I will ask again.  I am retired and I get social security income.  My two kids also get a SS benefit that together equals mine.  If I can include their SS income, I don't need assets.  It is family income that goes into our general fund for all living expenses.  I was told by one of the experts here, a few years ago, that I could not include their SS.  Any ideas on how I could include their income?

[Adventine 3,201]

I'm not an expert in the calculations for large families (my husband and I only did the I-864 with a household size of 2) but I believe you need to base your calculations on your total household size. 

 

If I remember right, you are sponsoring your Filipina wife and stepdaughter, and you also have two USC minor children.

 

According to this link, you have to count all of them when calculating your household size. Thus the income/asset requirements for your family should be based on a household size of (edited) 5 people (see question How is Household Size Determined):

 

https://rjimmigrationlaw.com/resources/uscis-form-i-864-affidavit-of-support-how-to-determine-if-a-sponsor-meets-the-income-requirements/#:~:text=Your household size includes you,would be six (6).

 

To me, it's not logical to do two types of I-864 calculations for your wife and stepdaughter since you are supporting both of them, all of you live together as a family unit and you are all moving the US together. A consular officer would take this all into account when evaluating your qualifications as a sponsor. 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Adventine

[seekingthetruth 1,248]

4 minutes ago, Adventine said:

If I remember right, you are sponsoring your Filipina wife and stepdaughter, and you also have two USC minor children.

 

According to this link, you have to count all of them when calculating your household size. Thus the income/asset requirements for your family should be based on a household size of 6 people (see question How is Household Size Determined):

Yes, our household size is 5.  My question is about the formula for assets required.  Spouse is 3X the income shortfall.  Stepdaughter is 5X, I think.  I guess logically, as you indicate, I should just show the assets the same for both I-864, which will be a lot more than 5X.  I guess I was overthinking it.

 

Any thoughts on the social security?

[Adventine 3,201]

Sorry, no idea on the SS income. Hopefully other veterans will stop by to comment.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Adventine

[SalishSea 17,937]

@pushbrk

[seekingthetruth 1,248]

4 hours ago, SalishSea said:

@pushbrk

I think it might have been pushbrk who told me I could not use the kid's SS.  I was going to reread it, but I am unable to find the post.  I think it was in 2021.