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Posted

The SYMPATHY these people get truly amazes me!

Someone breaks into your house its a crime? Break into the country! ahhhhhhh! Those poor unfortunate folks.

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Filed: Other Country: Israel
Timeline
Posted (edited)
Thank God for the House. :thumbs:

You can say that again :thumbs:

Still, poll after poll suggests a sizable majority of the American public, while concerned about illegal immigration and wanting stiffer enforcement, favors some way of granting legal status to those here illegally.

I'm surprised you highlighted that, peejay, but I'm glad you did. Hopefully, some of you stubborn ideologues will concede to the will of the people on this one.

The will of the people has nothing to do with the blatant lie about "poll after poll". What the legislators are hearing from angry, anti-amnesty constituents is the only relevent poll and the reason why "the grand compromise" is struggling and will meet even more substantive opposition in the House, which is closer to the people.

Edited by Green-eyed girl
Posted
Show me an illegal alien making $100,000 a year and grateful for a measly $5,000 penalty, and I'll show you a highly motivated and smart person who I want working in the American economy anyway. :)

Do you have any idea how much a construction worker makes? It can be easily upward of $100,000 a year.

Are you sure thats what the pay-by-cash day-labor types are pulling in? Especially when there are more people looking for work that work to be done?

Some are lucky to pull minimum wage. From the nytimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/22/national...and&emc=rss

Yes, a construction worker, can earn $100,000 per year in the good markets. Especially with specialization. But of your licensed and part of a union, your likely here legally too.

keTiiDCjGVo

Posted
Amnesty is just.

Really? By that measure, shoplifters should no longer fear prosecution. There are millions of them and according to your logic, it would be just to just let them have at it.

I think a better analogy for you would be something like jaywalking or driving five miles over the speed limit, because that's about as well as immigration has been enforced. And yes, if someone decided we needed to arrest all the jaywalkers (BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL!!!), I'd think there were better use of society's resources.

$100,000 a year is, uh, a little high for a good construction worker, but it does depend on the market. Certainly isn't going to be all construction workers; maybe a foreman or someone with specialization, but most of the guys are $10-$15/hour types. Many do pay taxes; illegals who are overstays might have an SSN, and many of the rest have ITINs because the last thing you want to do if you're here illegally is attract any other attention.

(Under the table work? Sure. In industries where under the table work is common, which is a lot of manual labor. I'm sure you gave your babysitter a 1099, right? Checked her social security card and citizenship before you left the kids home and went to see the movie? MMhmm.)

$5,000's still a pretty chunk of change, even for the illegals who's pulling a good income, given how much everyone here bitches about a $300 increase in fees. Plus, I think the bill still requires them to pay the rest of the immigration fees.

And illegals don't make as much as Americans or legal residents, it seems, even in the same industry. C.'s employer in Texas hires a few guys to do what C. does. I don't know if they're illegal, but it's Texas, and they speak no English... so it's a safe bet. They make $11/hour. C. gets paid by the meter. The difference in this can be, if C. works hard, about $500 a day.

(But Caladan!! They're lawbreaking gatecrashers!! Your fiance had to wait even though he met you once in person!!! You should be jealous! Uh. Stuff it.)

AOS

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Filed: 8/1/07

NOA1:9/7/07

Biometrics: 9/28/07

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EAD card ordered again (who knows, maybe we got the two-fer deal): 10/23/-7

Transferred to CSC: 10/26/07

Approved: 11/21/07

Filed: Other Country: United Kingdom
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Posted
Amnesty is just.

Really? By that measure, shoplifters should no longer fear prosecution. There are millions of them and according to your logic, it would be just to just let them have at it.

I think a better analogy for you would be something like jaywalking or driving five miles over the speed limit, because that's about as well as immigration has been enforced. And yes, if someone decided we needed to arrest all the jaywalkers (BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL!!!), I'd think there were better use of society's resources.

$100,000 a year is, uh, a little high for a good construction worker, but it does depend on the market. Certainly isn't going to be all construction workers; maybe a foreman or someone with specialization, but most of the guys are $10-$15/hour types. Many do pay taxes; illegals who are overstays might have an SSN, and many of the rest have ITINs because the last thing you want to do if you're here illegally is attract any other attention.

(Under the table work? Sure. In industries where under the table work is common, which is a lot of manual labor. I'm sure you gave your babysitter a 1099, right? Checked her social security card and citizenship before you left the kids home and went to see the movie? MMhmm.)

$5,000's still a pretty chunk of change, even for the illegals who's pulling a good income, given how much everyone here bitches about a $300 increase in fees. Plus, I think the bill still requires them to pay the rest of the immigration fees.

And illegals don't make as much as Americans or legal residents, it seems, even in the same industry. C.'s employer in Texas hires a few guys to do what C. does. I don't know if they're illegal, but it's Texas, and they speak no English... so it's a safe bet. They make $11/hour. C. gets paid by the meter. The difference in this can be, if C. works hard, about $500 a day.

(But Caladan!! They're lawbreaking gatecrashers!! Your fiance had to wait even though he met you once in person!!! You should be jealous! Uh. Stuff it.)

Hence there is a claim to some legitimacy - based on the fact that the laws have not been enforced for many years. However offended people are now by the current situation - they have nothing but their elected representatives; and by extension, themselves to blame.

Posted
Amnesty is just.

Really? By that measure, shoplifters should no longer fear prosecution. There are millions of them and according to your logic, it would be just to just let them have at it.

I think a better analogy for you would be something like jaywalking or driving five miles over the speed limit, because that's about as well as immigration has been enforced. And yes, if someone decided we needed to arrest all the jaywalkers (BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL!!!), I'd think there were better use of society's resources.

I have a better analogy for you. 30 years ago when you were caught driving drunk you were likely to be let go if the cop thought you could make it home alive. It happened to me many times. It was illegal then but it wasn't enforced. Try it today and see what you get.

Our government has turned a blind eye to a serious problem for many years. That still does not make it right. All the illegals should go home!!

Posted

I don't think that analogy helps as much as you think. Presumably you wouldn't think it fair if after 30 years of being an upstanding citizen, the police decided to prosecute you for a thirty-year-old drunk driving offense. And if it turns out that means you were a felon all this time, it would seem wrong for the local government to claim your house and everything else based on the fact that a felon drunk like you had no right to the jobs you've held and the money you've made.

AOS

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Filed: 8/1/07

NOA1:9/7/07

Biometrics: 9/28/07

EAD/AP: 10/17/07

EAD card ordered again (who knows, maybe we got the two-fer deal): 10/23/-7

Transferred to CSC: 10/26/07

Approved: 11/21/07

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Wales
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Posted

I blame it on the breathalyser, killed Cricket as a day long drinking event.

Without a steady flow of Undocumented Americans there would be enormous pressure on wages at the bottom end to increase.

Whilst outsourcing helps in many sectors, and there is a beneficial overflow from people who used to work in say manufacturing to service and construction industries, it still would not be enough to keep them in their place.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Wales
Timeline
Posted
I don't think that analogy helps as much as you think. Presumably you wouldn't think it fair if after 30 years of being an upstanding citizen, the police decided to prosecute you for a thirty-year-old drunk driving offense. And if it turns out that means you were a felon all this time, it would seem wrong for the local government to claim your house and everything else based on the fact that a felon drunk like you had no right to the jobs you've held and the money you've made.

So if I can show I have been drunk driving for 30 years I can continue!

Go USA!

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Filed: Other Country: Israel
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Posted (edited)

This bill doesn't make anyone do anything, pay a fine, fill out forms - nothing. It doesn't require anything more than it gives and gives. They didn't enforce the laws passed in 1986, they just made illegals legal. They won't enforce this law either, just make what's illegal legal. It's all a scam to benefit big business, and the One World Order elitists. Liberals who support it are being scammed big time.

Thank God for the House! The Senate is a bunch of patronage azz kissers extraordinaire.

Edited by Green-eyed girl
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Wales
Timeline
Posted
They won't enforce this law either, just make what's illegal legal. It's all a scam to benefit big business, and the One World Order elitists. Liberals who support it are being scammed big time.

Benefits small business as well, probably most Undocmented Americans are employed by small business's.

To be fair the left see it as a way of moving to a one party state, the death of the GOP. They have a point.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Hong Kong
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Posted
They won't enforce this law either, just make what's illegal legal. It's all a scam to benefit big business, and the One World Order elitists. Liberals who support it are being scammed big time.

Benefits small business as well, probably most Undocmented Americans are employed by small business's.

To be fair the left see it as a way of moving to a one party state, the death of the GOP. They have a point.

They're still wrong.

Scott - So. California, Lai - Hong Kong

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Filed: Other Country: United Kingdom
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Posted
I don't think that analogy helps as much as you think. Presumably you wouldn't think it fair if after 30 years of being an upstanding citizen, the police decided to prosecute you for a thirty-year-old drunk driving offense. And if it turns out that means you were a felon all this time, it would seem wrong for the local government to claim your house and everything else based on the fact that a felon drunk like you had no right to the jobs you've held and the money you've made.

So if I can show I have been drunk driving for 30 years I can continue!

Go USA!

These analogies are abstract enough IMO – without introducing sarcastic logic-riddles that add nothing to the point being made.

Unless I’m much mistaken - the major point of liability for an illegal immigrant is their entry into the country, not their continued presence. To follow the analogy its like drink driving once – not everyday.

And yes if you're out there actively breaking the law on a daily basis you will/should be caught and prosecuted. If you broke the law once years ago for a crime that wasn't enforced its hard to see how a person can be pulled up for it now. Its not like we’re talking about murder or anything like that…

Filed: Timeline
Posted

i have watched & participated in this debate several times. the 2 things i can tell you is nobody is changing anyone elses mind on the subject. and almost everyone is going to get PO'd

i am on the side of enforcement of current laws & do not understand the other side. no matter how much i try.

1 thing i think we can all agree on hopefully is: Green-eyed girl has the coolest avatar on VJ!

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Show me an illegal alien making $100,000 a year and grateful for a measly $5,000 penalty, and I'll show you a highly motivated and smart person who I want working in the American economy anyway. :)
Do you have any idea how much a construction worker makes? It can be easily upward of $100,000 a year.
Are you sure thats what the pay-by-cash day-labor types are pulling in? Especially when there are more people looking for work that work to be done?

And I thought one of the major arguments for their legalization is that they are doing the jobs that otherwise won't be done? Now we're turning around and saying that there are more illegals than there are jobs they can fill so they ahve to work for rock bottom wages and wouldn't owe any taxes? Whichever way the wind blows...

 

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