Non-taxable Income...Social Security Retirement benefit

[hendo25 11]

Hello all,

 

I'm a 71 year old CR-1 sponsor/petitioner for my Foreign spouse. I want to bring her to the U.S. to live.

My question and concern involves the I-864 and the minimum income requirement, for household of 2, currently of $21,138.

 

I'm retired and I have 3 simple sources of income (all retirement) all lifetime benefits:

 

1) Social Security - 23,000 annually - non-taxable

2) State Retirement pension - 11,000 annually - taxable

3) Private Corporation pension - 3,000 annually - taxable

 

$37,000 in total, annually.

 

Pretty straight forward; nothing else. All lifetime benefits good until I die.

 

Except my attorney is freaking out because my IRS tax returns only show $14,000 for the two "taxable"  income sources.

 

The additional Social Security benefit is easily documented with benefit award letters from the Soc. Sec. Admin. plus bank statements showing the money being directly deposited into my U.S. bank account and have been for the last 7 years since my retirement.

 

How do we submit the I-864 to correctly indicate what my actual annual income is, and not this $14,000 showing on my 1040's as my "total" income?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

DH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pushbrk 12,963]

21 hours ago, hendo25 said:

Hello all,

 

I'm a 71 year old CR-1 sponsor/petitioner for my Foreign spouse. I want to bring her to the U.S. to live.

My question and concern involves the I-864 and the minimum income requirement, for household of 2, currently of $21,138.

 

I'm retired and I have 3 simple sources of income (all retirement) all lifetime benefits:

 

1) Social Security - 23,000 annually - non-taxable

2) State Retirement pension - 11,000 annually - taxable

3) Private Corporation pension - 3,000 annually - taxable

 

$37,000 in total, annually.

 

Pretty straight forward; nothing else. All lifetime benefits good until I die.

 

Except my attorney is freaking out because my IRS tax returns only show $14,000 for the two "taxable"  income sources.

 

The additional Social Security benefit is easily documented with benefit award letters from the Soc. Sec. Admin. plus bank statements showing the money being directly deposited into my U.S. bank account and have been for the last 7 years since my retirement.

 

How do we submit the I-864 to correctly indicate what my actual annual income is, and not this $14,000 showing on my 1040's as my "total" income?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

DH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You qualify based on "current income", not your tax return total income.  State your current income accurately and provide benefit declarations to support it.  That your attorney doesn't understand this, would concern me.  You DO NOT need any other sponsor.

[hendo25 11]

3 hours ago, pushbrk said:

You qualify based

on "current income", not your tax return total income.  State your current income accurately and provide benefit declarations to support it.  That your attorney doesn't understand this, would concern me.  You DO NOT need any other sponsor.

Dear pushbrk,

 

Thank you so much for your reply to my I-864 concerns.

 

After spending the better part of my day, yesterday online, I had reached a similar conclusion as yours, but still wasn't quite sure as to how best to note it on the actual I-864 form. 

 

I have a following question, if you don't mind:

 

My Social Security "SSA-1099" for 2018 tax year, shows a "net benefits" amount or total benefit before Medicare Part B monthly premiums are deducted. And then the amount that is paid by "direct deposit," the amount I actually receive.  Which amount should I use (include) in my total "Current Individual Annual Income," on the actual I-864 application form?

 

My SSA benefit award letter for 2019 gives the exact part B monthly premium, and the exact monthly benefit that is being directly deposited into my bank account. This amount will also show as a direct deposit on my bank statements which we will provide with the application.  I may have answered my own question here, but for the "Current Individual Annual Income" line, should it be the net or gross benefit amount?

 

In a similar vein, My Virginia state pension gross monthly benefit has an optional health insurance (medigap) premium deducted prior to its being direct deposited into my bank account. This would obviously be reflected on my current bank statements.  It's a purely voluntary option and is only deducted from my monthly benefit as a convenience.  There is also a small amount of federal income tax deducted.  I can show this exact transaction via my benefit award letter or monthly stub.  These will clearly show gross and net benefits.  But, again, the question is:  which amount should I include in the "Current Individual Annual Income" amount on the I-864?

 

Either way, net or gross, for either or both of these benefits, I qualify for meeting the 125% poverty level threshold.  But "gross" always looks better...I would just like to be as accurate and correct as possible when filling out this form.

 

I apologize for the lengthy post.  And again, I thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns.  Your concern regarding my attorney is well taken, and my concern as well.  She is young and Thai, but speaks fluent English. I chose her because my Thai wife isn't fluent, and I wanted them to be able to converse freely in Thai.

 

Our exchange regarding this matter was late Friday and I don't believe she had all of my tax and financial documents at hand.  I am also, probably, the only "retiree" that she has dealt with for this type of Visa.  So the total income line on the 1040's she's seen, have all been more than adequate.

 

Anyway, Thank you again for your kind assistance.  I'm 71 and probably won't get a second shot at this, so I'm hoping we get this right the first time. 

 

Sincerely,

 

DH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pushbrk 12,963]

For SS, the deposited amount.  For the other, the gross.  Use the benefit letters as your current income evidence.  They'll understand why.

 

Aside, part B is "automatic" but not "mandatory".  But, because it is something you would have to opt out of to avoid (Most have no reason to do so but I do.) I would not include it in my "income".

[hendo25 11]

7 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

For SS, the deposited amount.  For the other, the gross.  Use the benefit letters as your current income evidence.  They'll understand why.

 

Aside, part B is "automatic" but not "mandatory".  But, because it is something you would have to opt out of to avoid (Most have no reason to do so but I do.) I would not include it in my "income".

Once again, thank you for your very helpful response to my questions.

 

I fully agree with you regarding the Virginia State pension, as ancillary health insurance policies, like medigap are most likely paid for outside of a normal retirement pension benefit.  As I stated in my previous post, the cost for it is deducted as a convenience, rather than my needing to mail in a separate payment for it.  I can opt out of it at any time and purchase a similar private policy elsewhere.  In fact, my now ex-wife, who retired with the same state pension benefit, opted not to take this "medigap" policy.

 

Additionally, my Virginia pension letter does indicate the "Gross benefit" (and the net), but my bank statements will show the "net" deposit amount.  Does this mean that I maybe shouldn't supply my bank statements, as this may cause some confusion to the Counselor Officer?  

 

Thanks,

 

DH

 

[pushbrk 12,963]

1 minute ago, hendo25 said:

Once again, thank you for your very helpful response to my questions.

 

I fully agree with you regarding the Virginia State pension, as ancillary health insurance policies, like medigap are most likely paid for outside of a normal retirement pension benefit.  As I stated in my previous post, the cost for it is deducted as a convenience, rather than my needing to mail in a separate payment for it.  I can opt out of it at any time and purchase a similar private policy elsewhere.  In fact, my now ex-wife, who retired with the same state pension benefit, opted not to take this "medigap" policy.

 

Additionally, my Virginia pension letter does indicate the "Gross benefit" (and the net), but my bank statements will show the "net" deposit amount.  Does this mean that I maybe shouldn't supply my bank statements, as this may cause some confusion to the Counselor Officer?  

 

Thanks,

 

DH

 

No need for bank statement if you have declaration letters.

[hendo25 11]

9 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

No need for bank statement if you have declaration letters.

Dear pushbrk,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.  My wife and I feel significantly better now.

 

Sincerely,

 

DH

 

[allanr 4]

At your interview, I believe they will want to see your last 3 years of income tax returns, which you will have listed on your I-864.  You should have all three sources of income itemized on those.  By pointing them out to the interviewer, that should more than satisfy the income requirement of $21,000+ for a couple.

 

I'm stating this because I also have an upcoming interview.   My last 3 years tax returns here abroad are all in the $35,000 range, which are a combination of Social Security and 401k disbursements.  I'm assuming that simply showing the returns at the interview will put any financial concerns to bed.  They show a gross income of less than $15,000 but also show on line 5a, approximately $20,000 in Social Security income which is not taxable.

 

I'll also bring bank and 401k statements.  Anyone know is that will be enough to satisfy the income requirement?  Should I also bring a SSA benefit award letter?

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by allanr

[hendo25 11]

1 hour ago, allanr said:

At your interview, I believe they will want to see your last 3 years of income tax returns, which you will have listed on your I-864.  You should have all three sources of income itemized on those.  By pointing them out to the interviewer, that should more than satisfy the income requirement of $21,000+ for a couple.

 

I'm stating this because I also have an upcoming interview.   My last 3 years tax returns here abroad are all in the $35,000 range, which are a combination of Social Security and 401k disbursements.  I'm assuming that simply showing the returns at the interview will put any financial concerns to bed.  They show a gross income of less than $15,000 but also show on line 5a, approximately $20,000 in Social Security income which is not taxable.

 

I'll also bring bank and 401k statements.  Anyone know is that will be enough to satisfy the income requirement?  Should I also bring a SSA benefit award letter?

 

 

Thanks for responding to my thread regarding Social Security income.

 

We are in almost the exact same boat on this.  My total income item 6 on the 1040 is about $15k, and my Social Security non-taxable showing on 5a is about 23K.  My 15k taxable amount is made up of two additional pensions.

 

If you get to the "interview" without your I-864 being questioned, I would also bring my SSA award benefit letter, and bank statements showing it being deposited each month; as you've already suggested.

 

I'm a little incredulous that SS benefits would even be questioned.  They are clearly stated on the 1040 (5a) and they are a "Lifetime" benefit until your death.  A job (taxable income) can disappear in a heartbeat.  You can lose your job the day after your visa is issued.  Social Security retirement benefits are good until your death.

 

There is also a box (part 6, item 7) on the I-864 for "my current individual annual income is:" which is asking for your best estimate of what you will bring in the coming year of filing (2019).  This is where I am going to include my Social Security income. With documentation to support it...i.e., SSA benefit letter, 1099-SSA, and bank statements for the past 6 month or even a year.

 

The short answer to your question is YES!!  Bring everything you have.

 

Is your interview soon?  Let us know how it goes....Good luck!

 

DH

 

 

[allanr 4]

4 hours ago, hendo25 said:

Thanks for responding to my thread regarding Social Security income.

 

We are in almost the exact same boat on this.  My total income item 6 on the 1040 is about $15k, and my Social Security non-taxable showing on 5a is about 23K.  My 15k taxable amount is made up of two additional pensions.

 

If you get to the "interview" without your I-864 being questioned, I would also bring my SSA award benefit letter, and bank statements showing it being deposited each month; as you've already suggested.

 

I'm a little incredulous that SS benefits would even be questioned.  They are clearly stated on the 1040 (5a) and they are a "Lifetime" benefit until your death.  A job (taxable income) can disappear in a heartbeat.  You can lose your job the day after your visa is issued.  Social Security retirement benefits are good until your death.

 

There is also a box (part 6, item 7) on the I-864 for "my current individual annual income is:" which is asking for your best estimate of what you will bring in the coming year of filing (2019).  This is where I am going to include my Social Security income. With documentation to support it...i.e., SSA benefit letter, 1099-SSA, and bank statements for the past 6 month or even a year.

 

The short answer to your question is YES!!  Bring everything you have.

 

Is your interview soon?  Let us know how it goes....Good luck!

 

DH

 

 

 

Thanks Hendo...i'm not sure about the interview to be honest...I got I-130 approval letter a week or so ago and just waiting to hear from the NVC...i'm assuming it will take another month or so to hear something.   what was your experience?   I'm here in the philippines.  

[hendo25 11]

5 hours ago, allanr said:

 

Thanks Hendo...i'm not sure about the interview to be honest...I got I-130 approval letter a week or so ago and just waiting to hear from the NVC...i'm assuming it will take another month or so to hear something.   what was your experience?   I'm here in the philippines.  

I'm a little confused about your process. Your profile says "DCF."  If that's the case you should have gotten a number with your approval letter to allow you to submit your I-864 application and maybe some other things. 

 

We are in Thailand and filed our I-130 directly with the USCIS office in Bangkok.  We just filed about a month ago and are waiting for an approval notification letter. Our attorney says we'll get an account number of sorts with this letter and that she needs it to file our I-864 application and the next packet.

 

It sounds like you may be doing something different than what we're doing here in Thailand. Where did you pay your $535.00 I-130 application fee?

 

Let me know how it goes from here...good luck.

 

DH

 

 

 

[allanr 4]

9 hours ago, hendo25 said:

I'm a little confused about your process. Your profile says "DCF."  If that's the case you should have gotten a number with your approval letter to allow you to submit your I-864 application and maybe some other things. 

 

We are in Thailand and filed our I-130 directly with the USCIS office in Bangkok.  We just filed about a month ago and are waiting for an approval notification letter. Our attorney says we'll get an account number of sorts with this letter and that she needs it to file our I-864 application and the next packet.

 

It sounds like you may be doing something different than what we're doing here in Thailand. Where did you pay your $535.00 I-130 application fee?

 

Let me know how it goes from here...good luck.

 

DH

 

 

 

Hello Hendo,

 

I don't blame you for being confused.  My apologies.

 

Everything I read here mentioned the NVC had to be involved in scheduling the interview, so I assumed that was the case with me.   I just realized that doesn't happen with DCF filiings.  I applied for my visa in Manila on April 4, and paid the $535.  I got a reply from USCIS about a week ago stating that they approved my I-130 form and were transferring it to the Consular section of the Embassy, and said that they would "contact the beneficiary" with instructions about applying for a Visa.   That has not happened yet,  and I don't know how long it will take for them to do so.  The two month average wait time from the NVC might not apply in my case.

 

 

[hendo25 11]

2 hours ago, allanr said:

Hello Hendo,

 

I don't blame you for being confused.  My apologies.

 

Everything I read here mentioned the NVC had to be involved in scheduling the interview, so I assumed that was the case with me.   I just realized that doesn't happen with DCF filiings.  I applied for my visa in Manila on April 4, and paid the $535.  I got a reply from USCIS about a week ago stating that they approved my I-130 form and were transferring it to the Consular section of the Embassy, and said that they would "contact the beneficiary" with instructions about applying for a Visa.   That has not happened yet,  and I don't know how long it will take for them to do so.  The two month average wait time from the NVC might not apply in my case.

 

 

Yeah, that sounds a little more like what we have been told by our lawyer.  You got your I-130 approval letter rather quickly...average time that we've heard is 2 1/2 to 3 months for that.  So you're doing pretty well.  From what I've seen from other DCF filers on this forum, once the case is transferred to the Embassy, things move pretty quickly. I don't think you will be waiting anywhere near 2 months to hear from the Embassy. But the Philippines may be different from Thailand as far as timing goes.

 

Let me know how it goes from here.

 

DH

 

[allanr 4]

On 5/29/2019 at 1:46 PM, hendo25 said:

Yeah, that sounds a little more like what we have been told by our lawyer.  You got your I-130 approval letter rather quickly...average time that we've heard is 2 1/2 to 3 months for that.  So you're doing pretty well.  From what I've seen from other DCF filers on this forum, once the case is transferred to the Embassy, things move pretty quickly. I don't think you will be waiting anywhere near 2 months to hear from the Embassy. But the Philippines may be different from Thailand as far as timing goes.

 

Let me know how it goes from here.

 

DH

 

 

I got the interview scheduling instructions today..about a week after the USCIS informed us that the I-130 application was approved.

[hendo25 11]

6 hours ago, allanr said:

 

I got the interview scheduling instructions today..about a week after the USCIS informed us that the I-130 application was approved.

Wow...great news!  Have you already submitted you I-864 affidavit of support?  I thought that came before the interview?  Anyway, like I said before, things start to move pretty fast once the I-130 is approved.

 

Keep me informed with how things continue to progress.

 

DH