Could pay-per-mile lead to the state automating speeding tickets?

[Umka36 781]

Sounds too intrusive for me.

 

http://mynorthwest.com/946367/washington-road-usage-pilot-expert/

[Dashinka 25,516]

Big brother? 

[jg121783 3,921]

The problem I see for this is the same problem that exists with red light cameras. Without a police officer that witnesses the offense first hand and without them filing a formal complaint detailing the offense along with when and where the offense occurred your due process rights are violated. Unfortunately most of the public is unaware of this so they will just pay up and move on with their life. That is what the government is counting on.

[bcking 3,157]

13 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

The problem I see for this is the same problem that exists with red light cameras. Without a police officer that witnesses the offense first hand and without them filing a formal complaint detailing the offense along with when and where the offense occurred your due process rights are violated. Unfortunately most of the public is unaware of this so they will just pay up and move on with their life. That is what the government is counting on.

Can you elaborate a little further? 

 

I'm not sure I agree that traffic light cameras (or this proposed change) would violate due process. You could still defend yourself in court. A police officer approves the citation based on photographic evidence, so you would defend yourself against their claim, along with the photographic evidence. You get a notice, you can appeal, you can have a hearing. You can have all of the necessary parts of due process.

 

 

As for the topic at hand - I have no problem with it. I would expect some leeway (if the speed limit is 65, you can go up to 70 or something) and perhaps a system to account for brief periods at higher speeds (If you tip 70 for a literal half second it doesn't trigger). Beyond those minor issues, I could get behind this.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by bcking

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

In Italy there is "Safety Tutor" system on most highways.

Efficient AF.

I hate it.

[bcking 3,157]

8 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

In Italy there is "Safety Tutor" system on most highways.

Efficient AF.

I hate it.

What is that system?

 

The UK has points where they look at your speed across a specific area. I know my wife has said that those can be abused especially if you know where they are ahead of time.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

What is that system?

 

The UK has points where they look at your speed across a specific area. I know my wife has said that those can be abused especially if you know where they are ahead of time.

They have cameras every x kilometers and calculate your average speed, so way worse than speed traps.

 

http://www.autostradetech.it/en/solutions/security-access-control/tutor-system.html

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Italian_in_NYC

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Italian_in_NYC said:

They have cameras every x kilometers and calculate your average speed, so way worse than speed traps.

 

http://www.autostradetech.it/en/solutions/security-access-control/tutor-system.html

 

Oh cool. That sounds great IMO

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

Oh cool. That sounds great IMO

I hate it.

But I guess it does its job.

[charmander 692]

I've seen average speed checks in Turkey in 2013. They calculate your average speed over a range of distances. LPR cameras detect your license plate and every 20-25km (~12-15 miles) or so your average speed is displayed on a billboard as you're passing by like the image below. I saw some drivers go in emergency lanes to not get recognized by the LPR camera. If your average speed is 10% above the limit, you get a ticket in the mail.

[Umka36 781]

56 minutes ago, bcking said:

Can you elaborate a little further? 

 

I'm not sure I agree that traffic light cameras (or this proposed change) would violate due process. You could still defend yourself in court. A police officer approves the citation based on photographic evidence, so you would defend yourself against their claim, along with the photographic evidence. You get a notice, you can appeal, you can have a hearing. You can have all of the necessary parts of due process.

 

 

As for the topic at hand - I have no problem with it. I would expect some leeway (if the speed limit is 65, you can go up to 70 or something) and perhaps a system to account for brief periods at higher speeds (If you tip 70 for a literal half second it doesn't trigger). Beyond those minor issues, I could get behind this.

 

It's supposed to be about a pay per mile system, and the thought that it could be used for other purpose is quite scary especially when it can be used to penalize you. Could you imagine getting a speeding ticket for loaning a family member/friend your car? I rather have the cops pull someone over, and issuing them the speeding ticket.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

14 minutes ago, Umka36 said:

It's supposed to be about a pay per mile system, and the thought that it could be used for other purpose is quite scary especially when it can be used to penalize you. Could you imagine getting a speeding ticket for loaning a family member/friend your car? I rather have the cops pull someone over, and issuing them the speeding ticket.

What's the big deal?

You pay the ticket (hopefully the driver will reimburse you) but no point on anyone's license.

There are already speed camera traps in many US cities.

[Umka36 781]

It's about a pay per mile system to replace the gas tax. The fact that it can be used to ticket oneself for speeding or anything else is not OK.

 

Again, why would I want to put a device in my vehicle that could potentially be used against them? Speed camera's are stationary, this system is in your car so it's always with you.  

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, Umka36 said:

It's about a pay per mile system to replace the gas tax. The fact that it can be used to ticket oneself for speeding or anything else is not OK.

 

Again, why would I want to put a device in my vehicle that could potentially be used against them? Speed camera's are stationary, this system is in your car so it's always with you.  

Driving a car should be a privilege, and you should have to abide by the laws required.

 

If people are uncomfortable with systems that make it easier to get caught speeding it's because they are speeding.

 

Driving a car isn't a private act. It's public and if we can find better ways to enforce it to make it safer I'm all for it.

[Umka36 781]

22 minutes ago, bcking said:

Driving a car should be a privilege, and you should have to abide by the laws required.

 

If people are uncomfortable with systems that make it easier to get caught speeding it's because they are speeding.

 

Driving a car isn't a private act. It's public and if we can find better ways to enforce it to make it safer I'm all for it.

LOL, again it's about a pay per mile system to replace a gas tax and not about speeding or anything else.

 

"But as vehicles become more fuel-efficient, state officials expect the gas tax will soon fall far short of what the state needs to maintain roads, bridges and the ferry system. By 2035, the state estimates gas tax revenue will decline by 45 percent."

 

http://nwnewsnetwork.org/post/washington-joins-oregon-pay-mile-experiment

Edited April 5, 2018 by Umka36