Do We Really Need To File For A CRBA? & Applying For Passport SSN Without CRBA

[jan22 2,901]

45 minutes ago, nomadicdude said:

So you disagree with @Mark88?

Yes.  You can apply for a CRBA even if they already have US passports, as long as the child is under 18.

[Mark88 183]

2 hours ago, nomadicdude said:

Canadian docs 

 

1 hour ago, jan22 said:

As US citizens, they must enter and leave the US as US citizens.

 

 

As of the moment, the citizenship of the children have not been claimed/proven. Hence for the US at the moment they can enter the US on Canadian passports. Once they go to a passport office (I advise strongly to go to a DOS passport agency) citizenship is clamied/aknowledged and then you must enter on a US passport.

[nomadicdude 0]

3 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

 

 

As of the moment, the citizenship of the children have not been claimed/proven. Hence for the US at the moment they can enter the US on Canadian passports. Once they go to a passport office (I advise strongly to go to a DOS passport agency) citizenship is clamied/aknowledged and then you must enter on a US passport.

so by getting a CRBA they also establish US citizenship, 

Pardon my ignorance what's a DOS passport agency and why the strong advice? 

[Mark88 183]

1 hour ago, jan22 said:

Yes.  You can apply for a CRBA even if they already have US passports, as long as the child is under 18.

 

I had one child's CRBA denied and got citizenship in the USA. Two years later we had another CRBA for our second child which was no problem. At the meeting I asked two consuls if I can refile for my first child with more evidence. They both answered, since USC citizenship has already been estabilished in the US, I con only file for a certificage of citizenship (in the US with USCIS), and not anything more with the conuslate aborad. Hence if you have a source, that I can show the US consulate, that this is possible, please post the link to this information.

[jan22 2,901]

Just now, Mark88 said:

 

 

As of the moment, the citizenship of the children have not been claimed/proven. Hence for the US at the moment they can enter the US on Canadian passports. Once they go to a passport office (I advise strongly to go to a DOS passport agency) citizenship is clamied/aknowledged and then you must enter on a US passport.

But there is a known clam to US citizenship, though, which really should be adjudicated in Canada prior to US entry.  Two US citizen parents approaching a US immigration officer with children they say are thrirs who onIy have Canadian documents will likely raise questions at the POE.

[Mark88 183]

Just now, jan22 said:

But there is a known clam to US citizenship, though, which really should be adjudicated in Canada prior to US entry.  Two US citizen parents approaching a US immigration officer with children they say are thrirs who onIy have Canadian documents will likely raise questions at the POE.

There might be a known claim, but it hasn't been claimed or claiming US citiznship will be necessary through another path (i.e. COC or BTL and CCA).  Until this process is not completed (with foreign born children), they are not considered US citizens and can travel on Canadian passports.

[Mark88 183]

4 minutes ago, nomadicdude said:

so by getting a CRBA they also establish US citizenship, 

Pardon my ignorance what's a DOS passport agency and why the strong advice? 

 

CRBA's only reason is to establish US citizenship (and gives your child something equal to a US birth certificate).

 

DOS = Department of State

The DOS runs passport agencies filled with consular officers that are familiar with the CCA and other topics. If you plan on going to i.e. a post office, good chance the clerk will have no idea and will not process your application.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/where-to-apply/passport-agencies.html

[jan22 2,901]

2 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

 

I had one child's CRBA denied and got citizenship in the USA. Two years later we had another CRBA for our second child which was no problem. At the meeting I asked two consuls if I can refile for my first child with more evidence. They both answered, since USC citizenship has already been estabilished in the US, I con only file for a certificage of citizenship (in the US with USCIS), and not anything more with the conuslate aborad. Hence if you have a source, that I can show the US consulate, that this is possible, please post the link to this information.

If I remember your information from previous posts, the CRBA for your first child was actually denied as not having acquired US citizenship at birth. He/She (sorry, can't remember whether it was a son or daughter) then acquired US citizenship under the Child Citizenship Act.  Following that procedure (the CCA) would be viewed as confirming that your first child was not a US citizen at birth through you, but rather acquired ithe via the CCA (grandparents, perhaps?).  That's likely the reason why you were told you could not file another CRBA application since the information on record states that your child did not acquire US citizenship at birth and would not, therefore, qualify for it.

[Mark88 183]

Just now, jan22 said:

If I remember your information from previous posts, the CRBA for your first child was actually denied as not having acquired US citizenship at birth. He/She (sorry, can't remember whether it was a son or daughter) then acquired US citizenship under the Child Citizenship Act.  Following that procedure (the CCA) would be viewed as confirming that your first child was not a US citizen at birth through you, but rather acquired ithe via the CCA (grandparents, perhaps?).  That's likely the reason why you were told you could not file another CRBA application since the information on record states that your child did not acquire US citizenship at birth and would not, therefore, qualify for it.

Possible, but I also asked hte consular officer if I hadn't got citzenship throught he CCA, if it would be doable. Both answers were no.

[Mark88 183]

27 minutes ago, jan22 said:

But there is a known clam to US citizenship, though, which really should be adjudicated in Canada prior to US entry.  Two US citizen parents approaching a US immigration officer with children they say are thrirs who onIy have Canadian documents will likely raise questions at the POE.

And then? If the immigration officer comes to that conclusion, that the child is a US citizen, but hasn't got a US passport another law kicks in and he can't deny a US citizen entry to the United States (it does mean they can inconvience you for hours until he reached a supervisor high enough to give his ok).

 

If all children would get a CRBA, just applying at a passport agency as first discussed in this post would not be possible (but it is).

Edited January 30, 2018 by Mark88
spelling

[jan22 2,901]

39 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

There might be a known claim, but it hasn't been claimed or claiming US citiznship will be necessary through another path (i.e. COC or BTL and CCA).  Until this process is not completed (with foreign born children), they are not considered US citizens and can travel on Canadian passports.

When a child acquires US citizenship at birth (i.e., qualifies for a CRBA), they are a US citizen, whether someone makes a claim to it or not.  With two US citizen parents, it is highly unlikely that the child is not a US citizen.  They should be documented as such to enter the US.

[Mark88 183]

1 minute ago, jan22 said:

When a child acquires US citizenship at birth (i.e., qualifies for a CRBA), they are a US citizen, whether someone makes a claim to it or not.  With two US citizen parents, it is highly unlikely that the child is not a US citizen.  They should be documented as such to enter the US.

I strongly agree that they should, but it is not a a must.

 

@nomadicdude as I stated before, and @jan22 pointing out, it is better to establish the citizenship through CRBA before you enter the US.

[jan22 2,901]

38 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

 

CRBA's only reason is to establish US citizenship (and gives your child something equal to a US birth certificate).

 

DOS = Department of State

The DOS runs passport agencies filled with consular officers that are familiar with the CCA and other topics. If you plan on going to i.e. a post office, good chance the clerk will have no idea and will not process your application.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/where-to-apply/passport-agencies.html

I disagree -- the other reason for a  CRBA is to have a one-page certificate that can be used for things like school records without having to always submit a passport.  Plus, it documents that the citizenship was acquired at birth, not through other means.  Might be important if the child wants to test what being a "natural born citizen" means when they run for president!

[jan22 2,901]

25 minutes ago, Mark88 said:

And then? If the immigration officer comes to that conclusion, that the child is a US citizen, but hasn't got a US passport another law kicks in and he can't deny a US citizen entry to the United States (it does mean they can inconvience you for hours until he reached a supervisor high enough to give his ok).

 

If all children would get a CRBA, just applying at a passport agency as first discussed in this post would not be possible (but it is).

Or, the immigration officer could say he cannot confIrm they are US citizens for sure and deny them entry as Canadian citizens.

 

It's possible because those entering with immigrant visas who acquire US citizenship under the CCA need to then be able to apply for passports.  

[Mark88 183]

3 minutes ago, jan22 said:

I disagree -- the other reason for a  CRBA is to have a one-page certificate that can be used for things like school records without having to always submit a passport.  Plus, it documents that the citizenship was acquired at birth, not through other means.  Might be important if the child wants to test what being a "natural born citizen" means when they run for president!

Most of these poinst were already pointed out through me in a post last week.