Medical Cannabis Users In Ohio Learn They’re Ineligible To Own Firearms

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Boiler said:

You are right, perhaps I should lay off reading your posts.

 

New Years resolution maybe.

That's up to you.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on most things, and even here I'm not an expert. I do however have knowledge of primary literature of this topic, outside of what is reported or "abbreviated" in media. In particular as it involves teenage substance abuse (since I am a Pediatrician by training). I've read literature, treated patients (in the past, in training), and discussed the topic with several experts far more knowledgeable on the topic than you or I. 

 

I've never claimed or tried to be brief in my posts here. Most take only 30-60 seconds so I don't really ever notice myself being long winded. However, when it comes to medical topics I am likely even more likely to be long winded because I have the knowledge base for it.

[Boiler 47,464]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Just curious. You read one all the way from start to finish ?

[Boiler 47,464]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

That's up to you.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on most things, and even here I'm not an expert. I do however have knowledge of primary literature of this topic, outside of what is reported or "abbreviated" in media. In particular as it involves teenage substance abuse (since I am a Pediatrician by training). I've read literature, treated patients (in the past, in training), and discussed the topic with several experts far more knowledgeable on the topic than you or I. 

 

I've never claimed or tried to be brief in my posts here. Most take only 30-60 seconds so I don't really ever notice myself being long winded. However, when it comes to medical topics I am likely even more likely to be long winded because I have the knowledge base for it.

Dont worry

 

Nobody has accused you of being an expert.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Boiler said:

Dont worry

 

Nobody has accused you of being an expert.

Good. I am 100% confident that I am more knowledgeable than you are on this topic. If that makes you want to get a beer, that's fine with me. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

1. Yes there is, and marijuana has been shown to exhibit both, just like opioids. Severity is indeed different, but they still both have chemical and psychological dependency, as does alcohol. It is incredibly difficult to die from opioid withdrawal (and most cases are actually from medically assisted opioid withdrawal using methadone, and then subsequent overdose of methadone). I've already agreed that alcohol is the true "odd man out" here in terms of what it does, and how we accept it.

2. Marijuana use in teenagers increases the incidence of psychiatric illness later in life (particularly schizophrenia). Of course there hasn't been a RCT (and there never will be), but both retrospective and prospective observation studies (the best level of evidence we can have) suggests that. There may be confounding factors, but we are limited in how we can study it because no one would ever find it ethical to randomize teenagers to smoking or not smoking marijuana.

3. Agreed that it shouldn't be schedule one. Or if it is, then absolutely alcohol should be right up there with it. We should be consistent with how we treat similarly dangerous drugs regardless of social conventions.

i mean, there's a reason it's officially called 'marijuana use disorder' and not 'marijuana addiction' - just saying. i cannot get down with 'marijuana exhibits both chemical and psychological dependency, just like opioids' because the two are not 'just like' each other. i've known lots of people who were once pot heads and decided to quit. they might get sweaty, might loose their appetite or something of that nature, but they've never needed a hospital stay to achieve their goal. to me - that's a psychological thing. the body gets used to the reward of smoking a joint and it takes time to adjust back to not getting that instant rush of serotonin. but it's more a mind over matter thing. opioid addiction is not. alcohol withdrawal/severe alcohol use is not.

knowing the history of marijuana in this country sheds a lot of light on why we lump marijuana in with actual dangerous drugs. 

full disclosure, i don't believe in scheduling drugs for the purposes of handing out jail sentences..prohibition doesn't work. if we made alcohol a schedule one drug today, for profit prisons would be ecstatic. and that's about it.  

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

That's up to you.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on most things, and even here I'm not an expert. I do however have knowledge of primary literature of this topic, outside of what is reported or "abbreviated" in media. In particular as it involves teenage substance abuse (since I am a Pediatrician by training). I've read literature, treated patients (in the past, in training), and discussed the topic with several experts far more knowledgeable on the topic than you or I. 

 

I've never claimed or tried to be brief in my posts here. Most take only 30-60 seconds so I don't really ever notice myself being long winded. However, when it comes to medical topics I am likely even more likely to be long winded because I have the knowledge base for it.

"I don't claim to be an expert on most things, "

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Dont worry

 

Nobody has accused you of being an expert.

[Boiler 47,464]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Good. I am 100% confident that I am more knowledgeable than you are on this topic. If that makes you want to get a beer, that's fine with me. 

Like I said, I do not imbibe.

[smilesammich 10,727]

13 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Well there you go. Perfect break down without all the Hyperbole. You nailed it. Much like you I have never known weed to ruin a persons life unless they get caught with it.

 

The only bad thing I will say, is that when used heavily it can make you unmotivated in regards to going to class etc at a young age. Also as you pointed out on teens with psychiatric disorders, the tendency may have been there all along

 

You may hang out in the Middle of the road lounge today. Good post 

i think it's sad that we can't treat addiction as a medical condition. of course, if someone commits a crime while under the influence you've got to deal with the crime. but possession should not be criminal.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, smilesammich said:

i think it's sad that we can't treat addiction as a medical condition. of course, if someone commits a crime while under the influence you've got to deal with the crime. but possession should not be criminal.

I tend to agree for weed. I have mixed feelings about Meth and so forth, although I cant say what we are doing know seems to help. Meth is becoming a large problem around here, as I am sure it is in your neck of the woods. 

[bcking 3,157]

10 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i mean, there's a reason it's officially called 'marijuana use disorder' and not 'marijuana addiction' - just saying. i cannot get down with 'marijuana exhibits both chemical and psychological dependency, just like opioids' because the two are not 'just like' each other. i've known lots of people who were once pot heads and decided to quit. they might get sweaty, might loose their appetite or something of that nature, but they've never needed a hospital stay to achieve their goal. to me - that's a psychological thing. the body gets used to the reward of smoking a joint and it takes time to adjust back to not getting that instant rush of serotonin. but it's more a mind over matter thing. opioid addiction is not. alcohol withdrawal/severe alcohol use is not.

knowing the history of marijuana in this country sheds a lot of light on why we lump marijuana in with actual dangerous drugs. 

full disclosure, i don't believe in scheduling drugs for the purposes of handing out jail sentences..prohibition doesn't work. if we made alcohol a schedule one drug today, for profit prisons would be ecstatic. and that's about it.  

Saying that it exhibits both characteristics "just like opioids" doesn't mean it does so in the same way. That was not my intention. I meant only to suggest that it exhibits both characteristics. The severity of those symptoms are different, I've said that from the beginning.

 

There is no evidence that marijuana dependency is just "mind over matter" any more than opioid and alcohol. In fact there are biochemical studies suggesting that indeed the chemoreceptors respond to frequent marijuana use and it is indeed a chemical reliance once you quickly stop using it (your body adapts to the constant high availability in substrate and downregulates the available of receptors). If we want to talk about anecdotal experience, I've seen teens get physically sick when admitted to the hospital and unable to continue to abuse every day. Never life threatening, but not pleasant. 

 

A pretty good review on cannabis use that is only a few years old - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21530584. It isn't a systematic review, but it does review most of the larger epidemiological studies on the impact of marijuana use, as well as the background on its mechanisms. If you aren't able to access it but want to, send me a PM.

 

EDIT: If you specifically want something on cannabis withdrawal - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Cannabis+Withdrawal%3A+A+Review+of+Neurobiological+Mechanisms+and+Sex+Differences.

 

https://www-ncbi-nlm-nih-gov.ezproxyhost.library.tmc.edu/pubmed/28564576 - Discusses the use of alternative cannabinoid receptor agonists in the treatment of cannabis withdrawal, but also emerging evidence that they may also be useful in the treatment of addiction to other chemicals because the cannabinoid pathway is directly related to the "reward" system in the brain that is so frequently impacted by addiction.

Edited December 8, 2017 by bcking

[-Trinity- 513]

31 minutes ago, Boiler said:

After reading that I need a beer.

 

Anybody want to join me?

Beer tastes disgusting, but when your taste buds are gone I guess it doesn't matter :-D

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

Saying that it exhibits both characteristics "just like opioids" doesn't mean it does so in the same way. I meant only to suggest that it exhibits both characteristics, like opioids do. The severity of those symptoms are different, I've said that from the beginning.

 

There is no evidence that marijuana dependency is just "mind over matter" any more than opioid and alcohol. In fact there are biochemical studies suggesting that indeed the chemoreceptors respond to frequent marijuana use and it is indeed a chemical reliance once you quickly stop using it (your body adapts to the constant high availability in substrate and downregulates the available of receptors). If we want to talk about anecdotal experience, I've seen teens get physically sick when admitted to the hospital and unable to continue to abuse every day. Never life threatening, but not pleasant. 

 

A pretty good review on cannabis use that is only a few years old - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21530584. It isn't a systematic review, but it does review most of the larger epidemiological studies on the impact of marijuana use, as well as the background on its mechanisms. If you aren't able to access it but want to, send me a PM.

i say marijuana dependency is mind over matter because throwing up cause you haven't had a bong hit in a few days is not the same as dying from not getting a shot of vodka or sleeping with someone for ten bucks to get a bag of heroin. all i've really got is anecdotal evidence and i've got a couple stories i could tell but..instead, think about quitting coffee. you can get mean headaches for days and days. wouldn't you say that quitting caffeine consumption is a mind over matter thing? your body has a chemical reliance on caffeine if you use it everyday.

thanks, i will read it. 

[Boiler 47,464]

1 minute ago, Beachlover said:

Beer tastes disgusting, but when your taste buds are gone I guess it doesn't matter :-D

Sorry to hear about your taste buds.

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i say marijuana dependency is mind over matter because throwing up cause you haven't had a bong hit in a few days is not the same as dying from not getting a shot of vodka or sleeping with someone for ten bucks to get a bag of heroin. all i've really got is anecdotal evidence and i've got a couple stories i could tell but..instead, think about quitting coffee. you can get mean headaches for days and days. wouldn't you say that quitting caffeine consumption is a mind over matter thing? your body has a chemical reliance on caffeine if you use it everyday.

thanks, i will read it. 

You could argue that the person sleeping with someone for ten bucks because of their chemical addiction to heroin is also "mind over matter". Opioid addiction and withdrawal won't kill you if you don't get your fix. You may feel very sick, but you won't die. So could technically just "toughen up" and get through it.

 

As I've already said - Yes alcohol is the "odd man out". Alcohol withdrawal can kill you. 

If you don't have an institutional account that gives you access, you likely won't be able to get more than the abstract (Just tried to access it outside of our institutional library website and it asks me to purchase it). As I said PM me if you are serious about it. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by bcking