The Day They Kicked God out of the Schools

[Marc and Olga 0]

I was going to write a long story but instead I'll keep it short and sweet... ish

It wasn't that God was kicked out of school but that there is a severe lack of discipline in America, a lack of supervision in America.

I remember back in my childhood, my mother always watching me while I was outside playing until I was about 12, I was always expected home before it was dark outside and I knew there were consequences if I failed to follow the "rules".

Today I see 8 and 10 year olds running around my apartment complex at 12 and 1 AM! I see children throwing rocks around, at each other while there is no parent around supervising then to ensure that they do not do things that could get themselves in trouble, this is, in my humble opinion what is driving America to the violent and destructive place it is slowly becoming.

Be advised I am Christian but there are some extremes I cannot accept and that video is pretty extreme...

but then I suppose some parents don't want to think "I'm just a bad parent for letting my child do this and that at all hours of the day" instead it is easier to blame the "lack of God" in our schools for their terrible parenting...

[Emancipation 2]

As a Christian I would never suggest the causal link between taking out the "formal prayer" structure in the school system and the shooting in VT. I just wanted to say that and to say that it kinda bugs me when people claim to speak the will of God when it is so contrary to the Person of God that I know. My God is bigger than any law or school policy to be perfectly honest, and in order for Him to be God He'd have to be big enough not to be "tied" or shut out by any man or policy. I'd like to add my voice to the others in this thread that say this video does not speak for me. While it is true that we reap what we sow (generally speaking), to apply it to the change in culture across the US in the past 2 decades (it should be pointed out that ALL of the things referenced in this video have ALSO happened in the UK & Canada to name only a few countries), is not helping this situation or offering any hope at all to those affected by it. I would hope our response to situations like this would be more "love-filled" instead of lashing out in such a pious and self-serving way.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

As usual the Bible thumpers contradict themselves again. They ask why GOD didn't stop these murders from happening?

For the same reason they always ignore even though it's in their Bible. For the same reason he didn't stop the Nazis, or Rawanda, or Cambodia and on and on.....

He gave us FREE WILL !!!! Or so the Bible says?? lol

Yes, free will.

[homesick_american 1]

You remember I did say that I could claim Alberta as "my" province?

Don't care, not pertinent to the discussion. We're discussing religion in American public schools; I don't know what they do in Canada and I don't care. I'm not Canadian.

'course, I have a way around that--known as "Calgary Catholic Education Board", as any child I produce would have dual Canuck-Yank citizenship.

OK, or you could just send your child to a parochial school if it's so important to you to have teachers lead your children in prayer. So, you're a Catholic eh? You do realize that most Christians in America are Protestant, right? How would you feel about a Southern Baptist teaching your Catholic child all about jeebus, seeing as how some Catholic priests would rather you skip church than attend a Protestant house of worship? (I'm a recovering Catholic.)

And let's not forget that schools in the UK (unless church schools obviously), do not have any religious activities, unless in a Religious Education class (in which they learn about ALL faiths). When was the last time there was a mass shooting in a UK school?

Since you asked...

Dunblane, 1996.

UK schools do not have mass shootings because children find it difficult to access guns. I would say that bullying and discipline are bigger problems in UK schools though.

First of all, Dunblane was perpetrated by an adult who did not attend the school.

I know. But it was a school shooting nonetheless.

No access to guns is, IMO, an excellent thing. However, my point is also that I don't think lack of religion is a reason for these shootings. I'm sure if it was, someone would find an alternative method to kill masses of children who were "not with God".

Hey, I'm with you on that. I don't own guns, never have, don't see a reason ever to own one. If I needed one to defend myself in my own home, I'd just move out of the sh!tty neighborhood I was in.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

You remember I did say that I could claim Alberta as "my" province.

...

'course, I have a way around that--known as "Calgary Catholic Education Board", as any child I produce would have dual Canuck-Yank citizenship.

Don't care, not pertinent to the discussion. We're discussing religion in American public schools; I don't know what they do in Canada and I don't care. I'm not Canadian.

... So, you're a Catholic eh?...

The two need to be answered together here. More than half my life was in Calgary, and I've only been American for a shade under 2 years (Wednesday is the 2^ND anniversary of my naturalisation).

No, I am not Catholic--in India and UK, I consider myself as LEF (a Protestant organisation founded in 1935 in Chennai) and in US and Canada as C&MA (also protestant)--I just pulled a "pat" answer to the earlier issue about SCOTUS rulings (which, as you inferred, apply to PUBLIC, not private--such as parochial--shcools).

I did have a few years of education in Catholic schools (all prior to emigrating to Canada from India), with no impact (I only became a Christian in 1994).

[KarenCee 3]

Didn't read through this whole thread but lemme just say here....prayer is NOT prohibited in public school. There has never been an instance in either school system that I've taught in where a student was told "No, you cannot pray in school". Kids have the freedom to pray if they want to. It's just not a planned part of the day nor is it to be done as a whole class or at an organised event during school hours. I have kids who pray before they eat lunch...I have some that pray before a test....etc. I have kids who keep a small bible in their desk. That isn't prohibited either, nor are my students (or any of the others who choose to pray) teased or made fun of because they pray. The thing that is prohibited is teachers and staff pushing their beliefs on the students and/or forcing them to pray in an organised way. Teachers and staff aren't allowed to discuss their beliefs on the off chance that it will influence a child. Each school is granted a moment of silence at the beginning of each day. Kids can pray...meditate...whatever during that moment of silence. They can pray to whatever god they choose...or they can do nothing. If christians want to see religion in school then send the kiddos to a christian school. Isn't that what they're there for?

Edited April 23, 2007 by KarenCee

[Fandango 1,440]

Maybe not in YOUR state, but my mother remembers clearly being forced to pray in Connecticut and Texas.

My Grandmother told me about hot dogs costing a nickel, doesn't mean it had any bearing on present day.

[KarenCee 3]

Maybe not in YOUR state, but my mother remembers clearly being forced to pray in Connecticut and Texas.

My Grandmother told me about hot dogs costing a nickel, doesn't mean it had any bearing on present day.

[Robor007 0]

What the Christian fundamentalists of this country will never understand is not everyone shares their views. If they want their child to have a Christian education then send them to a Christian school or home school them. It's that simple. Religion of any form doesn't belong in public schools. Period.

Church <<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>> State

[KarenCee 3]

What the Christian fundamentalists of this country will never understand is not everyone shares their views. If they want their child to have a Christian education then send them to a Christian school or home school them. It's that simple. Religion of any form doesn't belong in public schools. Period.

Church <<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>> State

Precisely! IMHO, it looks to me like the christians want public schools to be more like christian schools...without the price tag. I've heard it bemoaned many times "I'd put my kid in private/christian schools but it costs too much money."

[jundp 191]

OK, or you could just send your child to a parochial school if it's so important to you to have teachers lead your children in prayer. So, you're a Catholic eh? You do realize that most Christians in America are Protestant, right? How would you feel about a Southern Baptist teaching your Catholic child all about jeebus, seeing as how some Catholic priests would rather you skip church than attend a Protestant house of worship? (I'm a recovering Catholic.)

Well, most Christians are Protestant, but no one Protestant sect on their own (Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc) makes up as large a percentage of the populations as Catholics do, which is roughly 28% of the US Christian population. Also, I think the Catholic Church's view on worshipping in a Protestant church is that you aren't taking Eucharist. I've never ever heard a priest say that about going to a Protestant church.

However, I agree that rather than complaining about there being no organized prayer in public schools, parents should send their children to a church run school. Yes, it's more expensive, but if it's that important to you, then do it. Both my children go to private school, though one gets free tuition because I am a teacher at his school. Ultimately, it is me and their father and their (future) step-parents who are responsible for their religious and moral upbringing. It would be, IMHO, wrong and irresponsible of me to turn that over to teachers or others without my supervision.....

[homesick_american 1]

Maybe not in YOUR state, but my mother remembers clearly being forced to pray in Connecticut and Texas.

My Grandmother told me about hot dogs costing a nickel, doesn't mean it had any bearing on present day.

Cherry stated that prayer had not been forced on American schoolchildren, which is absolutely incorrect.

OK, or you could just send your child to a parochial school if it's so important to you to have teachers lead your children in prayer. So, you're a Catholic eh? You do realize that most Christians in America are Protestant, right? How would you feel about a Southern Baptist teaching your Catholic child all about jeebus, seeing as how some Catholic priests would rather you skip church than attend a Protestant house of worship? (I'm a recovering Catholic.)

Well, most Christians are Protestant, but no one Protestant sect on their own (Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc) makes up as large a percentage of the populations as Catholics do, which is roughly 28% of the US Christian population. Also, I think the Catholic Church's view on worshipping in a Protestant church is that you aren't taking Eucharist. I've never ever heard a priest say that about going to a Protestant church.

I know that Catholicism is the largest single denomination of Christianity, but to me all Protestants are pretty much alike so it's very easy for me to lump them together.

[Donna A 4]

What garbage. These cynical chopf#cks want to use the deaths of 32 innocent people to promote their own agenda of reintroducing prayer in public schools.

Sick, sick, sick, sick, sick f#cks.

first of all...ive seen this video way before this shooting thing happened. its not a new one. so that shoots that theory.

[Ban Hammer 14,273]

What garbage. These cynical chopf#cks want to use the deaths of 32 innocent people to promote their own agenda of reintroducing prayer in public schools.

Sick, sick, sick, sick, sick f#cks.

first of all...ive seen this video way before this shooting thing happened. its not a new one. so that shoots that theory.

pun intended?

[homesick_american 1]

What garbage. These cynical chopf#cks want to use the deaths of 32 innocent people to promote their own agenda of reintroducing prayer in public schools.

Sick, sick, sick, sick, sick f#cks.

first of all...ive seen this video way before this shooting thing happened. its not a new one. so that shoots that theory.

Doesn't matter; these people are charlatans, they're full of sh!t, they're peddling ridiculous arguments, and they will LOSE as long as I have anything to say about it.

If people want their kids to have god in school, either pay to send them to parochial school or homeschool them. THAT IS ALL.