The Law Is on the N.F.L. Players’ Side

[bcking 3,157]

10 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

The thing is labor laws differ vastly from state to state as I tried to explain to him. Here in my state,  they need no reason what so ever to fire someone, as long as you don't break the law doing it. My boss or any other here could fire you for kneeling during the anthem. 

And I've already explained that if the employee was not given prior knowledge of that restriction, he could sue them for wrongful termination for freedom of expression.

 

I can't say whether he would win, but he would at least have a case. An employer needs to set our their standards prior. That doesn't vary state to state. 

 

I've already obtained legal counsel on the issue (unofficially...having dinner with one as we speak)

[bcking 3,157]

In fairness he offered two qualifications:

 

1. If you are on a probationary contract your employer has more freedom

 

2. If in your contract or code of conduct your employer says something along the lines of "conduct expected of an employee" then they could try. However he said even in this case you could still take them to court and argue whether or not they have clearly defined what that means and whether there were preestablished standards or a clear expectation that standing for the anthem was included. Then it would depend how good your lawyer is.

 

Generally though he confirmed my thoughts. And stated that you his knowledge the above applies universally in all states. If it's not written down somewhere, you can take them to court and argue your case.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

55 minutes ago, bcking said:

And I've already explained that if the employee was not given prior knowledge of that restriction, he could sue them for wrongful termination for freedom of expression.

 

I can't say whether he would win, but he would at least have a case. An employer needs to set our their standards prior. That doesn't vary state to state. 

 

I've already obtained legal counsel on the issue (unofficially...having dinner with one as we speak)

I could sue you because , or just because.  Saying someone can sue is pointless. In Georgia I don't have to have a reason to fire you, as long as I don't violate federal law or don't practice  discriminatory reasons. 

 

Wrong 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

40 minutes ago, bcking said:

In fairness he offered two qualifications:

 

1. If you are on a probationary contract your employer has more freedom

 

2. If in your contract or code of conduct your employer says something along the lines of "conduct expected of an employee" then they could try. However he said even in this case you could still take them to court and argue whether or not they have clearly defined what that means and whether there were preestablished standards or a clear expectation that standing for the anthem was included. Then it would depend how good your lawyer is.

 

Generally though he confirmed my thoughts. And stated that you his knowledge the above applies universally in all states. If it's not written down somewhere, you can take them to court and argue your case.

You could but it would be a waste of money  

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

You could but it would be a waste of money  

He's unaware of any case precedent so figure you would actually have a reasonable shot.

 

There is no standard expectation that standard behavior for an employee is to stand during the anthem, since it isn't standard practice in employments. The employer would have to establish that their expectations for employees were to stand and that was a clear expectation prior to your action.

 

If it wasn't spelled out in the code of conduct,they would have a difficult time proving it.

 

Bottom line (because I'd like to enjoy dinner now) - I have at least one lawyer who is well respected and I trust who would support me in court. Though I need expect it to happen because A. The national anthem isn't played in a hospital and B. My employer wouldn't care what I did, just like most

 

For anyone else though - if it's not in your code of conduct, you should at least appeal it. In most states (per my legal counsel) you have a right to appeal a wrongful termination without a short window. If not - seek legal counsel if you out feel you were wrongfully terminated for something not spelled out in your contract or code of conduct.

 

At the very least your employer would be likely to settle to avoid dealing with the case (that was his expectation).

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Sue if you want... you’d either still be without a job, or working for an employer who hates you and will make your life a living hell until you quit.

 

ETA: Damn, hell is allowed!

ETA2: , so is damn!

ETA3: No more *** for disallowed words, it just removes them.  

Edited October 27, 2017 by IDWAF

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, IDWAF said:

Sue if you want... you’d either still be without a job, or working for an employer who hates you and will make your life a living hell until you quit.

You'd be without a job with a nice settlement to help get you through to the next job. Assuming you had a good lawyer who could get you the settlement.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, bcking said:

You'd be without a job with a nice settlement to help get you through to the next job. Assuming you had a good lawyer who could get you the settlement.

Laugh.  As he the lawyer laughs, taking your 40% to the bank.  What’s 60% of not much, if you didn’t have much history on the job?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Sue if you want... you’d either still be without a job, or working for an employer who hates you and will make your life a living hell until you quit.

 

ETA: Damn, hell is allowed!

ETA2: , so is damn!

ETA3: No more *** for disallowed words, it just removes them.  

And he doesn't work in Ga

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

You'd be without a job with a nice settlement to help get you through to the next job. Assuming you had a good lawyer who could get you the settlement.

And for the 100th time , in Ga they don't have to furnish a reason.  Geoegia is a right to work state.As I said when we started this goat rope. It varies wildly from state to state 

 

 

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Laugh.  As he the lawyer laughs, taking your 40% to the bank.  What’s 60% of not much, if you didn’t have much history on the job?

We'll of course it would depend on your history at the job. It could be nothing, but it could be a big deal.

 

If I worked ten years at a job and they fired me because they randomly played the national anthem and I didn't stand...you can be sure I would take them to court. I know my contract says nothing about standing for an anthem.

[bcking 3,157]

14 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

And for the 100th time , in Ga they don't have to furnish a reason.  Geoegia is a right to work state.As I said when we started this goat rope. It varies wildly from state to state 

 

 

Taken you awhile to name your state.

 

He said Georgia has at-will employment. Even in those states, most employers have contracts and if they do, the contract supercedes the at-will stipulation so the employee could argue that if they laid out rules for termination and standing for the anthem wasn't clearly stipulated, they could still have a case.

 

There is also case precedent that you still have a period to dispute the termination (usually ten days) even in at-will states.

Edited October 27, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

10 minutes ago, bcking said:

Taken you awhile to name your state.

 

He said Georgia has at-will employment. Even in those states, most employers have contracts and if they do, the contract supercedes the at-will stipulation so the employee could argue that if they laid out rules for termination and standing for the anthem wasn't clearly stipulated, they could still have a case.

 

There is also case precedent that you still have a period to dispute the termination (usually ten days) even in at-will states.

I said in the start, it varied from state to state, and most workers are not contract workers.

 

The only thing you can fight in Ga, is unemployment determination. 

You can fight your termination thru binding arbitration,  if you have a collective barging agreement,  which is a very small percentage here.

 

The only success you may have in court is if you could prove discrimination,  or if the employer broke the law. IE. Sexual harassment.

 

But I am just repeating what I said earlier. 

 

That is why, you are wrong is so much easier. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

58 minutes ago, bcking said:

We'll of course it would depend on your history at the job. It could be nothing, but it could be a big deal.

 

If I worked ten years at a job and they fired me because they randomly played the national anthem and I didn't stand...you can be sure I would take them to court. I know my contract says nothing about standing for an anthem.

You might get a settlement.  You might not.  But if you worked with me, you’d darn sure get a free coke.  And you’d always look over your shoulder for the rest of your life before taking a knee...

[bcking 3,157]

15 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

You might get a settlement.  You might not.  But if you worked with me, you’d darn sure get a free coke.  And you’d always look over your shoulder for the rest of your life before taking a knee...

Employment issues aside...

 

We've ready covered that dumping Coke on someone can be considered battery and I could press charges.

 

So please go ahead and be petty and immature and dump a coke on me. I'll gladly take you to court. I have enough friends who would gladly do it for free.