United passenger forcibly removed from flight after refusing to give up seat

[IAMX 3,055]

I honestly didn't care much about this topic until I saw the second video combined with the United statement about the passenger being loud and belligerent. He was far from that. Even though I doubt the usefulness of a Congressional investigation I'm interested in what is found in the end. The way it looks right now is that this is gonna hit United's image pretty hard. Given all companies spend nowadays on marketing themselves that new image they just carved for themselves is gonna cost them big time to change. 

[Dakine10 5,452]

   

    One witness claims the 4 passengers who were removed were selected because they purchased the cheapest tickets. Also they had a 'volunteer' who asked for $1600 but was told no.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/10/uniteds-fiasco-prompts-apology-suspension/100295216/

 

Will Nevitt, 30, a teacher who was returning home to Louisville from Chicago, said that a United manager called the doctor and his wife that they were being asked to leave the aircraft because they and two other passengers had purchased the cheapest flights on the plane.

Nevitt said that United personnel had offered up to an $800 voucher, and that one of the passengers said he would take $1600. But the airline employees said they could not go any higher.

[OriZ 3,165]

4 minutes ago, Dakine10 said:

   

    One witness claims the 4 passengers who were removed were selected because they purchased the cheapest tickets. Also they had a 'volunteer' who asked for $1600 but was told no.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/10/uniteds-fiasco-prompts-apology-suspension/100295216/

 

Will Nevitt, 30, a teacher who was returning home to Louisville from Chicago, said that a United manager called the doctor and his wife that they were being asked to leave the aircraft because they and two other passengers had purchased the cheapest flights on the plane.

Nevitt said that United personnel had offered up to an $800 voucher, and that one of the passengers said he would take $1600. But the airline employees said they could not go any higher.

Gee another $800 to avoid all this...maybe next time.

[Dakine10 5,452]

5 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Gee another $800 to avoid all this...maybe next time.

   I imagine selecting the cheapest fares to be bumped would also be to save a few bucks on the compensation. Now they are reimbursing all passengers who were booked on that flight. Live and learn I guess. Hopefully.

[Teddy B 17,252]

[OriZ 3,165]

3 minutes ago, Dakine10 said:

   I imagine selecting the cheapest fares to be bumped would also be to save a few bucks on the compensation. Now they are reimbursing all passengers who were booked on that flight. Live and learn I guess. Hopefully.

Well at least they're doing that. After this experience it might actually be best to use united for a while, don't think they will repeat it although you never know I guess.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

11 hours ago, Dakine10 said:

  Yeah that's what I would do too. I'm just wondering if it was first class that was overbooked, why didn't they offer him the economy seat first and then threaten to call the police second if he didn't budge. It doesn't make sense to threaten to call police first, then tell him there's another seat available. I don't know, maybe they did. This is just the customers side of the story. 

 

   If anything good comes of these incidents, hopefully it will be that airlines revise and/or be more transparent about their criteria for doing this. If they go in the order the ticket was purchased and then the order of seat assignment (for example), at least people would know that it's better to buy the ticket as early as possible and check in/ get the seat assignment as early as possible to have a better chance of not getting bumped. There should be some benefit to buying the ticket early. Random selection seems like a silly way to do it.

We are looking at a broken system. The reason these events are happening because of poor business practices and greed.  

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, ccneat said:

We are looking at a broken system. The reason these events are happening because of poor business practices and greed.  

I don't think kicking passengers off and paying people for free hotel stays, flights, etc to get sometimes non paying people on a flight is that much to do with greed. Business practices yes... greed no. 

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, IAMX said:

I don't think kicking passengers off and paying people for free hotel stays, flights, etc to get sometimes non paying people on a flight is that much to do with greed. Business practices yes... greed no. 

The greed argument I think mostly applies to overbooking in general.

 

A airline has statistics on how many people show up for their flight. It isn''t 100%. Say it's 95%.

 

So they can expect that on most flights if they book to 100% capacity, they will have 5% empty seats. But wait, they could make more money with those empty seats! So instead they book 105% capacity, planning for the fact that 5% won't show up anyway. 

 

They are "hedging their bets" in order to make more profit. They know they will run into situations where they are "overbooked". However again they can do the analysis beforehand and figure if they end up overbooked at a rate of 1 in every 10 flights, but they can sell 5% more tickets for every single flight, based on the compensation they assume they will have to provide in those overbooked situations they can still make profit.

 

So yes I think greed plays a role. They want to make as much money as possible and if that includes inconveniencing some customers they don't really mind. Customer satisfaction isn't the number 1 priority.

[OriZ 3,165]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

The greed argument I think mostly applies to overbooking in general.

 

A airline has statistics on how many people show up for their flight. It isn''t 100%. Say it's 95%.

 

So they can expect that on most flights if they book to 100% capacity, they will have 5% empty seats. But wait, they could make more money with those empty seats! So instead they book 105% capacity, planning for the fact that 5% won't show up anyway. 

 

They are "hedging their bets" in order to make more profit. They know they will run into situations where they are "overbooked". However again they can do the analysis beforehand and figure if they end up overbooked at a rate of 1 in every 10 flights, but they can sell 5% more tickets for every single flight, based on the compensation they assume they will have to provide in those overbooked situations they can still make profit.

 

So yes I think greed plays a role. They want to make as much money as possible and if that includes inconveniencing some customers they don't really mind. Customer satisfaction isn't the number 1 priority.

I think I heard once that they overbook by about 15%, I can't remember where though. Seems high. It's crazy to think so many people don't show up for their flights.

Edited April 13, 2017 by OriZ

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

The greed argument I think mostly applies to overbooking in general.

 

A airline has statistics on how many people show up for their flight. It isn''t 100%. Say it's 95%.

 

So they can expect that on most flights if they book to 100% capacity, they will have 5% empty seats. But wait, they could make more money with those empty seats! So instead they book 105% capacity, planning for the fact that 5% won't show up anyway. 

 

They are "hedging their bets" in order to make more profit. They know they will run into situations where they are "overbooked". However again they can do the analysis beforehand and figure if they end up overbooked at a rate of 1 in every 10 flights, but they can sell 5% more tickets for every single flight, based on the compensation they assume they will have to provide in those overbooked situations they can still make profit.

 

So yes I think greed plays a role. They want to make as much money as possible and if that includes inconveniencing some customers they don't really mind. Customer satisfaction isn't the number 1 priority.

So.. they're a business after all. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by IAMX

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

The greed argument I think mostly applies to overbooking in general.

 

A airline has statistics on how many people show up for their flight. It isn''t 100%. Say it's 95%.

 

So they can expect that on most flights if they book to 100% capacity, they will have 5% empty seats. But wait, they could make more money with those empty seats! So instead they book 105% capacity, planning for the fact that 5% won't show up anyway. 

 

They are "hedging their bets" in order to make more profit. They know they will run into situations where they are "overbooked". However again they can do the analysis beforehand and figure if they end up overbooked at a rate of 1 in every 10 flights, but they can sell 5% more tickets for every single flight, based on the compensation they assume they will have to provide in those overbooked situations they can still make profit.

 

So yes I think greed plays a role. They want to make as much money as possible and if that includes inconveniencing some customers they don't really mind. Customer satisfaction isn't the number 1 priority.

 

1 minute ago, IAMX said:

So.. they're a business after all. 

 That's all fine and good until folks have had enough.  Regardless of what went down or goes down everyday, the optics of a 69 year old man getting a belt to the face and and being dragged off is not good for business. Today the stock holders of United should be very concerned:  Do I have the right management team? Do I have the operating model.  Smart money looks at the symptom and sees huge downside.  Sorry Gordon, Greed is not good.

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, ccneat said:

 

 That's all fine and good until folks have had enough.  Regardless of what went down or goes down everyday, the optics of a 69 year old man getting a belt to the face and and being dragged off is not good for business. Today the stock holders of United should be very concerned:  Do I have the right management team? Do I have the operating model.  Smart money looks at the symptom and sees huge downside.  Sorry Gordon, Greed is not good.

Bottom line, despite these petty differences (I think this debate is quite trivial tbh) I think we can agree that United s*** the bed.

Edited April 13, 2017 by IAMX

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, IAMX said:

So.. they're a business after all. 

The definition of greed is a selfish desire for something, in this case money.

 

The definition of selfish is essentially acting for your own benefit and not being concerned about others.

 

So a business that prioritises making money over the well being of their customers pretty accurately fits the definition of greed.

 

Selling more seats than you have because you expect and assume some people won't come is prioritising your profit over the customers who will potentially suffer from the overbooking.

[IAMX 3,055]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

The definition of greed is a selfish desire for something, in this case money.

 

The definition of selfish is essentially acting for your own benefit and not being concerned about others.

 

So a business that prioritises making money over the well being of their customers pretty accurately fits the definition of greed.

 

Selling more seats than you have because you expect and assume some people won't come is prioritising your profit over the customers who will potentially suffer from the overbooking.

I think you were more accurate in your prior post. I don't disagree whatsoever with your assessment of their business decisions and hedging themselves against losing seats, but greed is often a leftist term to describe anyone that wants to screw others, not merely a Websters dictionary version. The latter is what I presume people mean when they say greedy, because they often also talk about them being wealthy and that somehow being a negative connotation.

Edited April 13, 2017 by IAMX