How can I start preparing son to join 'top dog' schools?

[Ban Hammer 14,632]

Edited April 9, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[homesick_american 1]

Hi,

I hear here in the US one has to be pretty well rounded to get the scholarships or entry into the big schools. Does one know what things I can start doing NOW to prepare my kid who is now in elementary school to jin one of those big league schools...I dont know any big shots,being an immigrant for starters!

I know a few Yalies and even someone who went to Harvard, and they all have these things in common:

* Excellent grades (straight-A average)

* Stellar SAT scores (all 1580-1590)

* Top of their class (top 5%)

* 4/5 of them had an alum parent/grandparent

One of the Yalies I knew had no extracurriculars at all and no family history at Yale; the rest were overachievers with family connections to both schools. I also knew a girl who was valedictorian with a 1590 on the SAT who was turned down by both Yale and Harvard. Both schools reject the vast majority of applicants, as do most Ivy League schools. You don't have to be an Ivy Leaguer to be a success, though; the most successful people I know went to Texas A&M, University of Texas, and University of North Carolina.

[Caladan 19]

No wonder we have high schools that are low in aptitude. More Asians succeeding in schools than any other race. Clearly a culture thing, and not a rascist thing like many people perceive.

Since you are OH SO KNOWLEDGABLE can you please explain this statement??

He's not really knowledgeable. Statistically the Asian kids tend to do better in the math and sciences, but at the top schools, you'll find kids of all races and genders doing well. And in the liberal arts, that 'Asian advantage' disappears. That's just a general parental focus, not something deep about 'cultural' or genetic aptitude. (You can run it for other groups, too -- Notre Dame, for example, has a really hard time convincing its graduates to do graduate school -- there's a strong parental pressure for law, business, and medicine.)

Plus, like I said, the Asian kids play video games and music and go out with friends, too. At Yale there's a huge Chinese contingent on the.. ballroom dance team. It's just not the case at all that the only way to succeed is to do nothing but study.

[Alex+R 0]

Yes, if I were a mom of a 6-year-old, I would NOT be worrying about what college my kid goes to, but rather that they are being given a chance to grow up well rounded and challenged academically (IF they want to be--academics are NOT every kid's bag and that should be respected, IMO).

Check out that recent article in the NYTimes about this being the most selective year in modern history for college entrance. I honestly don't know why people obsess about college and what school you go to for undergrad. Especially because, as Dean pointed out, so many of us end up majoring in pottery. Unless you are 112% sure you want to be an X when you grow up, and school Y has the best program in X, then it really is not as important as people make it out to be, IMO.

My mother always told me that it doesn't matter where you do undergrad as long as you excel where you are and experience life; it matters where you get your grad degree. So I went to the best school that had in-state tuition for me and worked my butt off, and also spent my freshman year at a college in Paris just for the chance to enjoy myself and expand my horizons. I will start my master's degree at an Ivy League school in August. For me, this has been the best path possible (so far). I am currently debt free.

[homesick_american 1]

Yes, if I were a mom of a 6-year-old, I would NOT be worrying about what college my kid goes to, but rather that they are being given a chance to grow up well rounded and challenged academically (IF they want to be--academics are NOT every kid's bag and that should be respected, IMO).

Check out that recent article in the NYTimes about this being the most selective year in modern history for college entrance. I honestly don't know why people obsess about college and what school you go to for undergrad. Especially because, as Dean pointed out, so many of us end up majoring in pottery. Unless you are 112% sure you want to be an X when you grow up, and school Y has the best program in X, then it really is not as important as people make it out to be, IMO.

My mother always told me that it doesn't matter where you do undergrad as long as you excel where you are and experience life; it matters where you get your grad degree. So I went to the best school that had in-state tuition for me and worked my butt off, and also spent my freshman year at a college in Paris just for the chance to enjoy myself and expand my horizons. I will start my master's degree at an Ivy League school in August. For me, this has been the best path possible (so far). I am currently debt free.

Your undergrad does matter a bit; it can keep you out of some of the more selective graduate programs, and not being an Ivy League grad can (does not always) keep you out of many of the top financial houses in major financial centers. I know a UNC-Chapel Hill grad who is an investment banker in the City so this does not always hold true. Also, if you want to No-Name State University and are trying to get into an Ivy League professional program like medicine or law, you'll be at a disadvantage. It doesn't count for as much as what some people think it does, but it does count for something.

[Caladan 19]

The way I'd gloss it is like this: if you're an Ivy League undergrad, you can major in painting and get hired by a top financial firm. If you're not at an Ivy League firm, best major in finance, math, or economics.

It's not that you can't succeed and have a great life without an Ivy degree, but having one removes some of the obstacles, namely, having to prove yourself from square one all the time.

[Alex+R 0]

Yes, if I were a mom of a 6-year-old, I would NOT be worrying about what college my kid goes to, but rather that they are being given a chance to grow up well rounded and challenged academically (IF they want to be--academics are NOT every kid's bag and that should be respected, IMO).

Check out that recent article in the NYTimes about this being the most selective year in modern history for college entrance. I honestly don't know why people obsess about college and what school you go to for undergrad. Especially because, as Dean pointed out, so many of us end up majoring in pottery. Unless you are 112% sure you want to be an X when you grow up, and school Y has the best program in X, then it really is not as important as people make it out to be, IMO.

My mother always told me that it doesn't matter where you do undergrad as long as you excel where you are and experience life; it matters where you get your grad degree. So I went to the best school that had in-state tuition for me and worked my butt off, and also spent my freshman year at a college in Paris just for the chance to enjoy myself and expand my horizons. I will start my master's degree at an Ivy League school in August. For me, this has been the best path possible (so far). I am currently debt free.

Your undergrad does matter a bit; it can keep you out of some of the more selective graduate programs, and not being an Ivy League grad can (does not always) keep you out of many of the top financial houses in major financial centers. I know a UNC-Chapel Hill grad who is an investment banker in the City so this does not always hold true. Also, if you want to No-Name State University and are trying to get into an Ivy League professional program like medicine or law, you'll be at a disadvantage. It doesn't count for as much as what some people think it does, but it does count for something.

I would say UW-Madison is a good public school, but a state school it most definitely is. I have 5 friends from college in Ivy League/other top school (e.g., NYU) law school and 3 in other top-ranked law schools. I know 2 getting their MPH at Ivies, 2 doing masters at Ivies in the liberal arts, and 3 at top-ranked medical schools (1 Ivy). I just don't see that barrier being the rule. In other words, I see that doors are opened by getting an Ivy League undergrad, but I don't see any doors being shut by not going that route. On the contrary, a public school offers more opportunity to distinguish yourself, which can make up for not forking out 40k a year for an Ivy.

The point is that parents trying to figure out how to get a kid into an Ivy or other big bucks school when the kid is 6 is, IMO, overthinking things a bit.

[CarolineM 0]

[almaty 19]

The point is that parents trying to figure out how to get a kid into an Ivy or other big bucks school when the kid is 6 is, IMO, overthinking things a bit.

i agree..and allot of pressure of the kid...

[britbird 4]

Umm...I would disagree with a number of comments made on this board about good schools.

Firstly, Ivy League is not the be all and end all - you know the University of California system is far and away better than most Ivy League schools.

Sure they are looking for kids who have studied and applied themselves, but not so much ones who were locked in a reading room all day and have the personality of a brick and are solely driven by the ambition of their parents.

Your child should enjoy school, play sports, do social stuff. Universities pay a lot of attention to extracurriculars. Trying to limit children re video games and TV is a good idea during the school week, but altogether? I don't think so. Take him on trips, expose him to the world, get him interested in things. It doesn't much matter what that is at his age - dinosaurs or beginner chemistry sets, but if he's interested he is more likely to enjoy reading and handling ideas and problems.

And before anyone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about, you should know that I work in admissions in an Ivy League school.

Meanwhile if you can take advantage of a state tuition savings plan, then go ahead. You can apply the money toward financing your own education, and it helps out with your tax status. More than that, provide a happy, safe, supportive upbringing for your child. That will mean more in the long run than prepping for any particular university over another.

[Caladan 19]

Indeed. The California system is wonderful. (BUT OF COURSE YOU ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET IN AND YOU ARE NOT THE ÜBERASIAN SPAMMER.) I'd put Michigan up there, too, as well as the non-Ivy midwestern schools (there's only a handful of schools in the Ivy League). And how much debt you'd have to take on should be a big factor, too; getting into Harvard is great, but having $120K in debt really crimps your ability to succeed.

Alex, where are you doing your master's? PM me if you'd rather not say; if you're at my school, we should hang out.

[Niels Bohr 72]

My Harvard professor when I attended their high school program earned 200k/year. It was my Calculus professor. Plus, she was also a part time lecturer at Simmons College.

They offer scholarships for those who are in need. It may be expensive, but, the experience was wonderful. Plus, I immediately got sophomore status in college upon acceptance, with the exception that I take General Education courses as well.

Edited April 9, 2007 by consolemaster

[Caladan 19]

Most of the private schools are need-based aid. Great for a poor, bright kid, but a bright kid of decent but not exceptional means will end up taking a heavy loan burden. It's not always worth it, though Harvard just moved to a sliding scale model for tuition.

Are you sure it was $200K? That sounds awfully high (by a factor of 2) for a summer instructor (usually grad students) who is supplementing her income by a teaching position at another college. Full professors at Harvard only early about $144,000 a year, give or take, and they're not the ones teaching intro calculus.

[KarenCee 3]

The point is that parents trying to figure out how to get a kid into an Ivy or other big bucks school when the kid is 6 is, IMO, overthinking things a bit.

i agree..and allot of pressure of the kid...

Gawd, I certainly hope the OP comes back and reads through all this mess and finds something to answer her question! As an educator, worrying about "top dog" schools right now is a waste of time IMHO. These kids are way too young to know deep in their heart which direction they want to go in. Most of the kids I work with have changed their minds several times already this year. Ease up and let your child BE a child.

Again, IMHO I think it's more what YOU want for your child. We all want the best and the greatest for our children and I am no exception. However, I will NOT pressure our daughter to go to a college that she doesn't want to go to just so I can live vicariously through her. If she's happy with a technical college education then so be it. The only thing these kids in elementary school need to really worry about are those bloody state standardised tests that we have to administer.

[homesick_american 1]

Yes, if I were a mom of a 6-year-old, I would NOT be worrying about what college my kid goes to, but rather that they are being given a chance to grow up well rounded and challenged academically (IF they want to be--academics are NOT every kid's bag and that should be respected, IMO).

Check out that recent article in the NYTimes about this being the most selective year in modern history for college entrance. I honestly don't know why people obsess about college and what school you go to for undergrad. Especially because, as Dean pointed out, so many of us end up majoring in pottery. Unless you are 112% sure you want to be an X when you grow up, and school Y has the best program in X, then it really is not as important as people make it out to be, IMO.

My mother always told me that it doesn't matter where you do undergrad as long as you excel where you are and experience life; it matters where you get your grad degree. So I went to the best school that had in-state tuition for me and worked my butt off, and also spent my freshman year at a college in Paris just for the chance to enjoy myself and expand my horizons. I will start my master's degree at an Ivy League school in August. For me, this has been the best path possible (so far). I am currently debt free.

Your undergrad does matter a bit; it can keep you out of some of the more selective graduate programs, and not being an Ivy League grad can (does not always) keep you out of many of the top financial houses in major financial centers. I know a UNC-Chapel Hill grad who is an investment banker in the City so this does not always hold true. Also, if you want to No-Name State University and are trying to get into an Ivy League professional program like medicine or law, you'll be at a disadvantage. It doesn't count for as much as what some people think it does, but it does count for something.

I would say UW-Madison is a good public school, but a state school it most definitely is. I have 5 friends from college in Ivy League/other top school (e.g., NYU) law school and 3 in other top-ranked law schools. I know 2 getting their MPH at Ivies, 2 doing masters at Ivies in the liberal arts, and 3 at top-ranked medical schools (1 Ivy). I just don't see that barrier being the rule. In other words, I see that doors are opened by getting an Ivy League undergrad, but I don't see any doors being shut by not going that route. On the contrary, a public school offers more opportunity to distinguish yourself, which can make up for not forking out 40k a year for an Ivy.

I went to a state school myself: the University of Texas at Austin, one of the 'public Ivies', and having a degree from there opened doors to me that were shut to people with degrees from, say, Sul Ross State University. That's not to say you can't get a good education at Sul Ross State, but academic snobbery knows no bounds. Knowing this I decided to just go to UT and stick it out for four excruciatingly tough years.

There are only a few doors that are shut...or open only a small crack...to non-Ivy League grads...but for the most part you can have an excellent career in business as long as you go to a good program and get good grades.

The point is that parents trying to figure out how to get a kid into an Ivy or other big bucks school when the kid is 6 is, IMO, overthinking things a bit.

I agree.