How long before the white working class realizes Trump was just scamming them?

[B_J 2,752]

Nope. Get back in that ditch. I got the middle of the road.

But you supported Hillary?

I didn't support Hillary but I was very anti-Trump. My biggest issue right now is China and their aggressive actions, especially in the West Philippine Sea. Trump had no real statements on China's actions and I'm not sure he knew what was going on. Say what you will about Hillary but she is kind of hawkish. China definitely can't stand her and the fact that she has criticized them. I do like that about her. It was almost enough to get me to vote for her.

However, once I found out about Evan McMullin, I was able to vote for him with a clear conscience. And it's pretty easy to do that in Texas. There's not much doubt which way we're going to go, just by how much. And it was nothing close to the Wendy Davis beat down. Those were good times.

[B_J 2,752]

Innocent people have been wrongly executed. Just saying.

Stop it!! I'm happy with my opinion. Don't mess it up.

Seriously though, that is a real issue.

I'll settle it. Let say we end both executions and abortions.

[OriZ 3,165]

Innocent people have been wrongly executed. Just saying.

And that's just part of my issue with it but a big part of it.

Stop it!! I'm happy with my opinion. Don't mess it up.

Seriously though, that is a real issue.

I'll settle it. Let say we end both executions and abortions.

I have always said that would be the only consistent opinion to have, although I do recognize that there are many cases where it should be allowed within the first 20 weeks. I don't recognize any situations where executions are beneficial or moral.

Edited November 27, 2016 by OriZ

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

So you're a liberal then. Got it.

J/K, but on a serious note, Valdemort posted this goofy online questionnaire a month or more back, that tells you if you are left/right, conservative/liberal or something like that. I came in left of center, slightly lower than horizontal. I sure didn't expect that!

But of your list below, I only differ on two items, and not sure how I feel about your last point. I guess I am ambivalent on it. So I guess that makes me conservative too? Man, I just don't know. Here's hoping I don't go BOTH ways...

I guess you don't know so much:

I'm pro-life.

I'm pro-death penalty

I'm against affirmative action.

I'm for lower taxes and lower spending.

I'm for increased oil exploration.

I'm pro-second amendment.

I'm against Obama care and any single payer policy.

I'm pro-legal immigration and against illegal immigration.

I'm pro-private property and against eminent domain being used so often.

I'm very Christian.

I'm against same-sex marriage.

I'm for social security reform.

I'm very much a foreign policy hawk.

Any questions, snowflake?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

What if your wife was raped? Would that be a cause for the death penalty?

What about a guy who rapes a little girl, does his prison sentence, then gets out and within six months rapes another person?

I don't recognize any situations where executions are beneficial or moral.

[OriZ 3,165]

So you're a liberal then. Got it.

J/K, but on a serious note, Valdemort posted this goofy online questionnaire a month or more back, that tells you if you are left/right, conservative/liberal or something like that. I came in left of center, slightly lower than horizontal. I sure didn't expect that!

But of your list below, I only differ on two items, and not sure how I feel about your last point. I guess I am ambivalent on it. So I guess that makes me conservative too? Man, I just don't know. Here's hoping I don't go BOTH ways...

I remember that. You came out basically a socialist, man, you and my wife both lol. I was pretty much smack dab in the center but closer to libertarian than authoritarian and just slightly to the right economically.

What if your wife was raped? Would that be a cause for the death penalty?

What about a guy who rapes a little girl, does his prison sentence, then gets out and within six months rapes another person?

No, it wouldn't. It would be a cause for a very lengthy prison sentence. And the guy with the little girl shouldn't be out for a very long time either, the first or second time.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Dude, you are hard core. I'm not sure I would even let the justice system work if some guy raped someone I know.

The problem with people like this (rapist) is that rarely do they ever change. Lock them up for 20 years, and they just dream about doing it when they get out. That's how I see it. Anyone who would rape a kid especially. I find it hard to believe they can be rehabilitated.

No, it wouldn't. It would be a cause for a very lengthy prison sentence. And the guy with the little girl shouldn't be out for a very long time either, the first or second time.

[OriZ 3,165]

Dude, you are hard core. I'm not sure I would even let the justice system work if some guy raped someone I know.

The problem with people like this (rapist) is that rarely do they ever change. Lock them up for 20 years, and they just dream about doing it when they get out. That's how I see it. Anyone who would rape a kid especially. I find it hard to believe they can be rehabilitated.

Anyone who would rape a kid would probably end up beaten to death in prison anyway, and trust me it's not like I'd feel bad for them. But between that and believing in something that A. Gets quite a few innocent people on death row B. Doesn't actually reduce violence and that's been proven C. Is morally wrong(just because that person commit a crime doesn't give the state the right to commit another by killing them and D. Doesn't give them the opportunity to be rehabilitated I have an issue with that. I mentioned here before that I once knew a prison psychologist, we were actually together for a while, and it opened my eyes to many things in regards to seeing them as more than just felons, and how many of them she did actually manage to help.

Without going into details my wife has already been through quite alot in her life, and trust me there's nothing I'd love better than to strange them with my own hands, I know who they are and where they live. But that doesn't mean I'd support a state doing that as a legal procedure.

Edited November 27, 2016 by OriZ

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Don't strange them. They are probably already strange enough. .

The problem with our system (one problem at least) is that there are innocent people on death row sitting beside guilty people. But... There is no way to ascertain who they are and get them out. So if you say don't kill anyone because some might be innocent, you are letting the real criminals live. Which isn't the end of the world or anything, but it does mean that our prison population will continue to grow, as will the rising cost of housing and caring for them. Heck, they get better medical treatment and shelter than many homeless people and military veterans do. That's just wrong.

[OriZ 3,165]

Don't strange them. They are probably already strange enough. .

The problem with our system (one problem at least) is that there are innocent people on death row sitting beside guilty people. But... There is no way to ascertain who they are and get them out. So if you say don't kill anyone because some might be innocent, you are letting the real criminals live. Which isn't the end of the world or anything, but it does mean that our prison population will continue to grow, as will the rising cost of housing and caring for them. Heck, they get better medical treatment and shelter than many homeless people and military veterans do. That's just wrong.

Actually many times they find ways to prove that they are innocent but there is such bureaucracy that it is often very hard to get them outta there. It's terrible. And yes, I would rather put 100 guilty people on the street than kill one innocent. Believe me, they would not want me on most juries. Hardcore, forensic evidence or don't even bother. Peer pressure doesn't affect me so 11-1 no problem, I'll hang the sucker if I have to.

He said she said and circumstantial evidence don't fly with me, I've seen wayyyyy too many cases where these seemed like a slam dunk and they weren't. And that wouldn't even be for death row, it would be just to put someone in prison, because I firmly believe the biggest commodity each of us has is our freedom. Think about it this way - you go every day about your everyday life, so does your family. Just imagine that one day you, or someone in your family ends up in jail and then maybe even prison, be it for 1 year or 20 years, your whole life is upside down and you are innocent, but they had some evidence or what they thought was evidence that made it seem like you are guilty. Prosecutors are often just prosecution happy and juries are often stupid so they buy it and your life is done. Seems far fetched? Yet it happens to so many people, all the time.

I don't want it to happen to me, or you, or our families. I don't want it to happen to a single person on the planet. If the cost of that is having guilty people on the streets so be it.

Edited November 27, 2016 by OriZ

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I can see your point. And as to your "Think about it this way..." part. I know. It has happened in my family. And it sucked.

I still cannot wrap my head around the concept of letting 100 wrongdoers go free though. Give me time, I may get there. just not today.

[OriZ 3,165]

I can see your point. And as to your "Think about it this way..." part. I know. It has happened in my family. And it sucked.

I still cannot wrap my head around the concept of letting 100 wrongdoers go free though. Give me time, I may get there. just not today.

I don't know, to me nothing seems worth waking up one day to go to work or do your usual routine just to find out your life just ended for something you didn't do. That's harder to swallow than not convicting someone because there evidence just isn't there or isn't good enough. Obviously not talking about just letting people go if they're clearly guilty, but my bar is set much higher on that burden of proof than some.

Hope that situation in your family got cleared up quickly.

Edited November 27, 2016 by OriZ

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Yeah, some are unjustly incarcerated, no doubt. And I am sure it happens to blacks and the poor much more often than the majority of citizens. It's easy to pin a crime on someone shifty or who doesn't have much of a support group behind them (strong family, community, etc.). Between police falsifying evidence, lawyers "sitting on" evidence, or a judge who just doesn't like a particular (innocent) person, it is far too easy to get a conviction when one shouldn't be had.

It sort of did. Took about 3.5 years for the biggest part, but some if it still lingers today, 10 years later.

I don't know, to me nothing seems worth waking up one day to go to work or do your usual routine just to find out your life just ended for something you didn't do. That's harder to swallow than not convicting someone because there evidence just isn't there or isn't good enough. Obviously not talking about just letting people go if they're clearly guilty, but my bar is set much higher on that burden of proof than some.

Hope that situation in your family got cleared up quickly.

[MarkPerry 488]

Yeah, but in the end, I couldn't do it. I wrote in Evan McMullin instead.

Try again, snowflake.

If you came out and publicly stated you would/might vote for Clinton kinda make you Snowflake ish

Edited November 27, 2016 by MarkPerry

[MarkPerry 488]

I guess you don't know so much:

I'm pro-life.

I'm pro-death penalty

I'm against affirmative action.

I'm for lower taxes and lower spending.

I'm for increased oil exploration.

I'm pro-second amendment.

I'm against Obama care and any single payer policy.

I'm pro-legal immigration and against illegal immigration.

I'm pro-private property and against eminent domain being used so often.

I'm very Christian.

I'm against same-sex marriage.

I'm for social security reform.

I'm very much a foreign policy hawk.

Any questions, snowflake?

What is your opinion on Duterte?