F1-->H1B or TN or EB2

[Harry_Pluxen 0]

No law firm is going to do an H-1B or green card right away. A TN is easy, inexpensive, and much less onerous than an H-1B, as I believe H-1B requires a labor certification showing the job was advertised in the US. And finally, you don't have to enter a lottery like you would with an H-1B, you just show up at the border with your letter of employment and credentials. There's no reason to risk the H-1B lottery, especially when a TN last for 3 years, and I've known people who have renewed it for 10 years.

I have occasionally heard of a law firm sponsoring a Canadian for a Green Card when they want to keep them. But to do that they'll have to show there's something that's unique about you that requires they hire you over an american. That can happen eventually, but not as a first-year. Once you're on the partner track you can ask those questions.

Why wouldn't a law firm sponsor me for an H1B visa right away? If I was planning to get an EB2 Green Card in the future, wouldn't the H1B visa be the appropriate stepping stone, since it allows for dual intent?

My concern with the TN visa is that it precludes obtaining a green card. My only option on a TN would be to timely file for a fiancé Visa Green card...

Just for reference, I was on F-1 and went on OPT before adjusting status to H-1B. I paid nothing for OPT, and H-1B last I heard, cost about $2500.

What was your process like when you obtained your H1B and Green Card? Could you elaborate a bit?

[snyc01 1]

Why wouldn't a law firm sponsor me for an H1B visa right away? If I was planning to get an EB2 Green Card in the future, wouldn't the H1B visa be the appropriate stepping stone, since it allows for dual intent?

My concern with the TN visa is that it precludes obtaining a green card. My only option on a TN would be to timely file for a fiancé Visa Green card...

Yes, the H1B would be appropriate to move to a green card, but the fact is that chances are you won't be at the same firm in five years. The economics of large firms require large first-year associate classes that slowly get culled. If you enter as a first-year, they're not going to want to spend extra money on you when they don't know what you'll be like and don't know their needs 5-10 years down the road. Now if you're a superstar and that was the only way to get you to the firm, maybe they'd do it, but they don't have to since a TN is available. Why file a Labor Condition Application, pay the fees, and enter a lottery, when they can get you in on a TN? Most firms hire outside immigration attorneys to take care of these issues, so they have no reason to pay the fees for an H1B if an easier and cheaper option is available. And why would they pay for the fees to prepare the application when there's no guarantee of you even getting through the H1B lottery? The TN is a great option. My advice is get hired, do good work, and you can worry down the road about something more permanent. And if it wasn't obvious, I used to work at a large law firm in New York.

Edited February 23, 2016 by snyc01

[akihon 129]

Why wouldn't a law firm sponsor me for an H1B visa right away? If I was planning to get an EB2 Green Card in the future, wouldn't the H1B visa be the appropriate stepping stone, since it allows for dual intent?

My concern with the TN visa is that it precludes obtaining a green card. My only option on a TN would be to timely file for a fiancé Visa Green card...

First of all, I'm not sure what your rush is. As far as I know, from a Canadian former coworker of mine, you have three years of work in the US on the TN. That means you have three years to get your employer to switch you to the H-1B, but this is not a guarantee, as snyc01 is saying.

H-1B annual quotas have been running out in a couple of days. You have to be outstanding, and what snyc01 is saying about law firms makes sense. It's the same thing for other fields like the service industry. There's no reason to hire an international student to work the front desk when they can hire any old US citizen teenager off the streets without having to pay all the fees and lawyer retainer stuff to do that. (This is what happened to my brother)

What was your process like when you obtained your H1B and Green Card? Could you elaborate a bit?

I entered on an F-1 student visa to attend university. I received a job offer just before graduation, so I had to scramble to apply for my OPT, as highly recommended by my new employer's HR department to allow Legal time to start pulling my H-1B paperwork together. Reason for the scramble was because I was already on my way out of the US permanently to wait for my now-spouse to bring me back in on K-1.

My OPT started on July 1, and by September, I had my H-1B status changed via my employer. My GC is via marriage, so it's not the same as your situation, but I know that my employer had been gathering my Canadian former coworker's GC paperwork to prepare for when he hit eligibility. Alas, due to internal restructuring, my employer decided not to pursue his GC and he ended up transferring his H-1B to another employer who had promised him that they would do so. He just got his GC last year.

EDIT: I am in engineering.

Edited February 23, 2016 by akihon

[Harry_Pluxen 0]

First of all, I'm not sure what your rush is. As far as I know, from a Canadian former coworker of mine, you have three years of work in the US on the TN. That means you have three years to get your employer to switch you to the H-1B, but this is not a guarantee, as snyc01 is saying.

H-1B annual quotas have been running out in a couple of days. You have to be outstanding, and what snyc01 is saying about law firms makes sense. It's the same thing for other fields like the service industry. There's no reason to hire an international student to work the front desk when they can hire any old US citizen teenager off the streets without having to pay all the fees and lawyer retainer stuff to do that. (This is what happened to my brother)

I entered on an F-1 student visa to attend university. I received a job offer just before graduation, so I had to scramble to apply for my OPT, as highly recommended by my new employer's HR department to allow Legal time to start pulling my H-1B paperwork together. Reason for the scramble was because I was already on my way out of the US permanently to wait for my now-spouse to bring me back in on K-1.

My OPT started on July 1, and by September, I had my H-1B status changed via my employer. My GC is via marriage, so it's not the same as your situation, but I know that my employer had been gathering my Canadian former coworker's GC paperwork to prepare for when he hit eligibility. Alas, due to internal restructuring, my employer decided not to pursue his GC and he ended up transferring his H-1B to another employer who had promised him that they would do so. He just got his GC last year.

EDIT: I am in engineering.

OK, guys. Thanks for explaining. I just worry that if I was on a TN, the only way to obtain a GC would be through marriage. If I was on a TN visa, could I count on an employer to apply for adjustment of status to an H1B so that I could pursue an employment based GC eventually?

Also, regarding the H1B visa... First, wouldn't I qualify for the 20k advanced degrees that are not in the lottery? Second, Are you saying that US law firms wouldn't hire a Canadian on an H1B because the TN is so easy for them to get?

Lastly, I don't think what you said in bold is accurate. Comparing a law job to the service industry is not a valid comparison. Anyone can sit at a front desk and take calls - not everyone can do law.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Harry_Pluxen

[snyc01 1]

Quick responses:

No, you can never count on an employer to sponsor you. It's frustrating, but it's the truth. I've known 8th year associates who had been on TN visas for 8 years but the firm was still reluctant to sponsor them until they were being made partner. They see it as a commitment, and most firms are commitment-phobic. There are some immigration attorneys who advise that you can do consular processing for adjustment of status, which (they argue) gets around the 'no dual intent' nature of TN visa. The theory is that if you apply for AOS consular processing it means to get your GC or H1B you have to go back to Canada to get it. So when you enter on a TN you can legitimately say "I don't have intent to stay", since you have to leave to get the visa. Make sense? Now I'm not an immigration lawyer, so I'm by no means recommending that, but at some point it's worth looking into if you're on a TN and have an employer willing to put you on an H1B or GC.

Regarding the 20k advanced degree quota - my assumption was that it also fills up immediately, so it becomes a lottery. Perhaps slightly better odds than the regular quota, but still a lottery. I could be wrong about the numbers that apply though.

And yes, law firms won't do an H1B precisely because a TN is so easy to get. Of course it's possible that if there was no TN option they simply wouldn't bother hiring a Canadian, except in exceptional circumstances.

Edited February 23, 2016 by snyc01

[akihon 129]

OK, guys. Thanks for explaining. I just worry that if I was on a TN, the only way to obtain a GC would be through marriage. If I was on a TN visa, could I count on an employer to apply for adjustment of status to an H1B so that I could pursue an employment based GC eventually?

Also, regarding the H1B visa... First, wouldn't I qualify for the 20k advanced degrees that are not in the lottery? Second, Are you saying that US law firms wouldn't hire a Canadian on an H1B because the TN is so easy for them to get?

Lastly, I don't think what you said in bold is accurate. Comparing a law job to the service industry is not a valid comparison. Anyone can sit at a front desk and take calls - not everyone can do law.

To address your last comment, I'm not saying that a lawyer is the same thing as a worker in the service industry, but the mentality behind the decision to not bother getting you an H-1B is the same, made even worse because you have easy access to the TN. With the TN, you already have a leg up on everybody else. There's no reason for law firms to commit when you can work for them just fine with the TN.

The same thinking goes for hiring internationals to do work that most citizens can. Why go the extra mile when you or a citizen can already do the same work for them without the fees?

Edited February 23, 2016 by akihon

[Harry_Pluxen 0]

Quick responses:

No, you can never count on an employer to sponsor you. It's frustrating, but it's the truth. I've known 8th year associates who had been on TN visas for 8 years but the firm was still reluctant to sponsor them until they were being made partner. They see it as a commitment, and most firms are commitment-phobic. There are some immigration attorneys who advise that you can do consular processing for adjustment of status, which (they argue) gets around the 'no dual intent' nature of TN visa. The theory is that if you apply for AOS consular processing it means to get your GC or H1B you have to go back to Canada to get it. So when you enter on a TN you can legitimately say "I don't have intent to stay", since you have to leave to get the visa. Make sense? Now I'm not an immigration lawyer, so I'm by no means recommending that, but at some point it's worth looking into if you're on a TN and have an employer willing to put you on an H1B or GC.

Regarding the 20k advanced degree quota - my assumption was that it also fills up immediately, so it becomes a lottery. Perhaps slightly better odds than the regular quota, but still a lottery. I could be wrong about the numbers that apply though.

And yes, law firms won't do an H1B precisely because a TN is so easy to get. Of course it's possible that if there was no TN option they simply wouldn't bother hiring a Canadian, except in exceptional circumstances.

@Akihon, Thanks for the clarification. It is the same type of mentality. I meant to draw a distinction between the two fields.

@Snyc01, I haven't yet come across "consular processing" in my research into this subject. Could you elaborate on it? Can it really lead to a GC? I thought that GC was strictly off limits if you are on a TN, unless you apply for a fiancé visa shortly after getting a 3 year renewal.

Thanks again for the comments, guys; I appreciate it!

[snyc01 1]

@Snyc01, I haven't yet come across "consular processing" in my research into this subject. Could you elaborate on it? Can it really lead to a GC? I thought that GC was strictly off limits if you are on a TN, unless you apply for a fiancé visa shortly after getting a 3 year renewal.

My understanding is that it is possible to apply for an employment-based green card while on a TN visa. I can't vouch for this site, but they seem to suggest it, although they're not talking specifically about consular processing:

http://www.jcsimmigration.com/tn-visa-green-card/

I can't seem to find a site that specifically talks about TN -> Employment-base Green Card. Perhaps consular processing is not possible for non-marriage green cards? I just know for marriage-based green cards you can choose to do Adjustment of Status while in the country, and then you can't leave until receiving Advanced Parole, or you can do it via consular processing, where the theory is that you go in and out of the country while its pending because you're entering the US on a TN visa but do not have intent to stay (since you have to leave the country to get your green card). The question is whether you could do consular processing for an employment-based green card, in which case applying while on a TN should be possible. To be honest, for that kind of issue I'd consult an immigration lawyer when the time comes. If law school teaches you anything, it's that lawyers are specialized for a reason.

[Harry_Pluxen 0]

My understanding is that it is possible to apply for an employment-based green card while on a TN visa. I can't vouch for this site, but they seem to suggest it, although they're not talking specifically about consular processing:

http://www.jcsimmigration.com/tn-visa-green-card/

I can't seem to find a site that specifically talks about TN -> Employment-base Green Card. Perhaps consular processing is not possible for non-marriage green cards? I just know for marriage-based green cards you can choose to do Adjustment of Status while in the country, and then you can't leave until receiving Advanced Parole, or you can do it via consular processing, where the theory is that you go in and out of the country while its pending because you're entering the US on a TN visa but do not have intent to stay (since you have to leave the country to get your green card). The question is whether you could do consular processing for an employment-based green card, in which case applying while on a TN should be possible. To be honest, for that kind of issue I'd consult an immigration lawyer when the time comes. If law school teaches you anything, it's that lawyers are specialized for a reason.

Thanks for sharing the link, I'll look into it. I think I understand what you are saying: leave the country while the EB green card is pending so that it does not violate the TN "non-immigrant" status & lead to denial...I think that could be tricky because of the amount of time I would have to remain out of the USA while the GC is being processed.

I don't plan to become an immigration attorney, but I will probably end up taking a class or two on the subject while in law school. It would be best in order to understand how all of this works when the time comes.

Thanks!

[snyc01 1]

Just to be clear, no you don't have to stay out of the US while the green card is pending. You can be in the US but the fact that you have to go to Canada to get it means that you aren't violating the non dual intent requirement of the TN. Since when you are entering the US, even with a pending green card application, you can say you are not entering the country with the intent to stay since you will have to leave to get the Green Card. At least that's the theory which I've seen on various sites.

[HollywoodNorth 22]

I wasn't never an F1 but I do have experience going from TN1 to H1B.

When I was hired, back in the 00's the TN-1 visas were only one year in length. With year to year renewals, there wasn't a guarantee you could keep getting new TN's, at least for the same company.

After working for a year on a few projects, my employer filed for TN-1 renewal and an H1B ( I didn't know this at the time). I basically received 2 I797's, one to extend my TN-1 for another year and then a H1B I797 that started on the following October. I'm not sure if H1B's filed in this manner are subject to the lottery or not. That being said I had an ongoing I-130 petition from a US Citizen parent for a green card, my employers knew this so they generally didn't feel the need to drop the coin on getting an EB1/EB2 based green card for me unless something went wrong with the I-130 petition.

Either way, its up to your employer if they wish to petition for a transfer of status, if they like you and wish to keep you around long term they will peruse it. If not you may have to jump around for a few years to different firms until you find the right fit.

[Boiler 43,446]

As an aside the majority of visa's are dual intent, a term often misused.

For the spousal aspect you could always try match.com.

[Harry_Pluxen 0]

As an aside the majority of visa's are dual intent, a term often misused.

For the spousal aspect you could always try match.com.

Lol. Good one. I hope you are joking, because that could be visa fraud, if it is a marriage of convenience.

Do you know of any other visas, aside from the ones discussed so far, that would allow for a green card in my case?

[Boiler 43,446]

Who mentioned marriage of convenience?

O1?

[HollywoodNorth 22]

O-1 won't be possible for someone right out of school/university*. It'll be hard to meet the criteria. If you could qualify for an O1 there's a reasonable chance at that point you can just self file for an E11 and get a green card immediately if you had the qualifications.

*- There's always exceptions, but for 99.9% of graduates, they wouldn't meet the criteria.