Visa Waiver and ESTA question!

[787Groove 0]

And... Since this will be out first time going to the US, what can we expect from the border control officer? We're going there for 3 months.

Damn it, I guess I deleted one part of the sentence there - Since this will be our first time going to the US on a VWP, what can we expect from the border control officer?

My GF and I went to the States in 2011 on a J-1 visa. I apologize greatly for any confusion.

[787Groove 0]

Okay... I just received the ESTA, it's approved

[JayJayH 546]

Damn it, I guess I deleted one part of the sentence there - Since this will be our first time going to the US on a VWP, what can we expect from the border control officer?

My GF and I went to the States in 2011 on a J-1 visa. I apologize greatly for any confusion.

The absolute vast majority of travelers only go through what's called primary inspection:

You'll go through the same US-VISIT process you went through in 2011. They'll scan your passport, take your fingerprints and a picture of you.

While doing this, they'll ask you some questions. Sometimes only a few, sometimes more.

Common questions:

What is the purpose of your trip?

How long will you be staying?

Have you been to the U.S. before?

Do you know anyone in the U.S?

Since you're planning to stay for a longer period of time, you can expect questions in the lines of:

What do you do back home?

What are your plans while you're in the U.S?

Where are you staying while you're in the U.S?

How much money (or credit cards) are you bringing with you?

Sometimes they just ask flat out:

Do you plan to go back?

Will you be working while you're here?

That's called primary. Very rarely, if they're not convinced you're just planning to vacation in the U.S., they may send you to secondary inspection (again, this is very rare for VWP/ESTA travelers), and usually only happens if you have some sort of suspicious travel pattern, or your story doesn't make sense. (i.e. this is your 3rd 90 day trip this year, or you flew from Slovenia with a 24 hour stopover in Colombia, or you're planning an 88 day vacation with $150 to your name)

In secondary, you'll go to a waiting room or office, where an officer will run a more thorough check, and ask you more detailed questions.

Okay... I just received the ESTA, it's approved

Congrats!!

Edited December 5, 2015 by JayJayH

[787Groove 0]

That's called primary. Very rarely, if they're not convinced you're just planning to vacation in the U.S., they may send you to secondary inspection (again, this is very rare for VWP/ESTA travelers), and usually only happens if you have some sort of suspicious travel pattern, or your story doesn't make sense. (i.e. this is your 3rd 90 day trip this year, or you flew from Slovenia with a 24 hour stopover in Colombia, or you're planning an 88 day vacation with $150 to your name)

In secondary, you'll go to a waiting room or office, where an officer will run a more thorough check, and ask you more detailed questions

:D I just find that to be so ironic, considering that I was getting ready to spend the night at a ''holding room'' at the exact same time you replied

So yeah, I was denied entry to the US and sent home the previous day. Now I'm not permitted to go back on the VWP, but I have to apply for a visa instead.

I have a stamp in my passport that says: U.S. Department of Homeland Security Customs and Border Protection, Refused in accordance with INA section 217 R39007, 4DEC2015 CHI 214. For all you immigration buffs on here - can anyone tell me what that means?

After we were done with our interrogatio...khm khm... interviews they took our fingerprints and a secondary picture of us. Is this normal? The paper had CRIMINAL plastered on it, do we have a criminal record now?

Then we spent the night in a holding cell for 24 hours until we were finally comissioned to leave. We were escorted by the police and had problems with the Custom Services Department in Zagreb (where we started from initially). This is another question - is this going to be an ongoing thing for us? If we travel again to another country in the coming days or months, are we going to be questioned at the point of entry to ANY country (Europe, Canada, South America, etc...).

They denied us because we had employment documents (which they found later after taking all of our stuff) like the I-765, the I797A - all copies, mind you - which were filled out by us for our previous J-1 employer to see. Now, these documents weren't going to be used in a working capacity, but rather as a TEMPLATE for our prospective employer to see if we should ever start the entire process. Our employer isn't well-versed in these matters and was interested in trying to help us.

One officer basically said: ''If you weren't hiding your documents, things might have gone differently.'' I agree with that, but we were unsure. And a little scared.

So that's the story. So, what I basically want to know is:

1.) Can all of this stop us from trying to find employment in another country (like Canada or the UK) or just to stop us from going there without running into any problems?

2.) What to do with the whole VWP thing. I know it's over now, but we can apply for a visa, right? How do we go about that?

3.) Do we have a criminal record? Can we expunge that in any way?

Thanks for all your help, guys. It sucks that things went down the way they did, but we were at fault here not them and I understand that.

But there was one thing I'll never forget - before they found those documents they acted like jerks towards my GF and that's something that was completely uncalled for. They told her she was lying and that she should shut up and tell the truth.

[Hypnos 6,579]

They believed you were going to work illegally without authorisation to do so. Having hard copies of things like an I-765 in your luggage was not smart. Had they searched your belongings and not found anything like that then I suspect you'd have been admitted. Finding employment documents though, that's a slam-dunk for them to deny you entry.

1) No.

2) I don't believe you are prevented from using the VWP for life (as some offences cause you to be), but you will now always have to answer "Yes" to the question that asks if you have ever been denied entry to the United States. This will likely act as a de facto ban at least for a year or two, as any ESTA application you file will probably either be automatically rejected, or go pending for a day or two followed by a manual rejection.

You can try obtaining a B-2 tourist visa, but you won't get one anytime soon. Like the VWP, you will need to put some distance between this event and trying to enter again. I would suggest a couple of years at the absolute minimum.

3) No, you have no criminal record because these types of infractions are dealt with as civil, not criminal matters (this is why you did not have the right to speak with an attorney during all of this, for example).

To repeat for others: your deal-breaker was the employment documents you were carrying. Your should never bring anything so incriminating with you. Assume your belongings are going to be searched until they aren't. You made it easy for them.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Hypnos

[Boiler 47,262]

They were deported and so the VWP days are over and any future visit would need a visa.

Otherwise i agree you were essentially deported due to seeking entry on the wrong visa, needed one that had work authorisation.

US and Canada share date, my guess is that with everything going on more Countries will do so.

[787Groove 0]

Thank you so much for your response!

3) No, you have no criminal record because these types of infractions are dealt with as civil, not criminal matters (this is why you did not have the right to speak with an attorney during all of this, for example).

Okay, I thought so. I was just unsure - we were fingerprinted after all and they took another picture of us.

I was mostly refering to this - http://thelawdictionary.org/article/canada-and-other-countries-can-refuse-entry-due-to-reckless-driving-misdemeanor-dui/

They were deported and so the VWP days are over and any future visit would need a visa.

What do you mean we were deported? Doesn't that mean you can't EVER come back? That you essentially have a ban for 10+ years?

US and Canada share date, my guess is that with everything going on more Countries will do so.

What do you mean by this? That they share DATA? You think that having been sent home by the US would affect our going to Canada?

[Boiler 47,262]

Well I do not know for certain whether you were deported or allowed to withdraw your application for admission, did you pay your own way home?

DATA

[787Groove 0]

Well I do not know for certain whether you were deported or allowed to withdraw your application for admission, did you pay your own way home?

We did not pay for our own way home.

And we do have a signed form where it states - TO BE COMPLETED BY ALIEN WHEN APPLICATION FOR ADMISSION WITHDRAWN.

You think we might have problems with Canada? :/

DATA

I knew it

Edited December 7, 2015 by 787Groove

[Boiler 47,262]

Do not know much about Canada, but you can safely assume they know about your US issues. What do you want to do in Canada?

[787Groove 0]

Do not know much about Canada, but you can safely assume they know about your US issues. What do you want to do in Canada?

Oh no, just an informative question.

Travel moslty o maybe even find employment there if need be.

Would it, since they know about my US issues, hinder that in any way?

[Boiler 47,262]

If you applied for a work visa I doubt it would be relevant.

[JayJayH 546]

Refusal under section 214(b) = Failure to satisfy an immigration officer that you were not intending to immigrate and/or work.

The immigration officer found documents on you that suggested you were coming to the U.S. to work and/or live, two things you cannot do on a non-immigrant visa, and so they could not let you enter the U.S. on a non-immigrant visa, but rather, deny you under section 214(b) of the INA for failure to meet requirements of section 217 (pertaining to the VWP).

However. A denial or refused entry under section 214 is one of those gray areas of law. There is no finding that you were in fact intending to work or immigrate. Immigration officers don't need to 'find you guilty' to refuse you entry/visa etc. They just need to 'not be convinced' that you're a genuine non-immigrant (tourist, student etc.)

Since there was no finding of any wrongdoing on your part, the refused entry does not bar you from seeking admission to the U.S. again with a visa, though it will be up to a consular officer at the embassy/consulate where you apply to determine if you are eligible for the visa you're applying for. They will likely take the refused entry into account, but will also look at your situation as a whole, and your ties to your home country when determining your eligibility.

Canadian and US officers frequently share information. I would not be surprised if CBSA (Canadian CBP) would know of your incident. Whether that will be a problem or not however, I have no idea.

Bottom line, you are not barred from anything, though whether or not you'll be able to use ESTA / VWP again is a 'probably not.'

Edited December 9, 2015 by JayJayH

[JFH 12,193]

Lesson learned. VWP is purely for tourism and visiting friends and family. If you ever want to go back, follow the steps that exactly match your reason for going. I would say your case was quite obvious you were going to work. The forms, tickets for 88 days (so no job to go home to?) combine d with staying at one place the entire time rather than travelling around as a genuine tourist might who was going on an extended holiday. Also the timescale of doing the ESTA, booking the flight tickets and leaving - all within a week. Did you have job interviews lined up?

[787Groove 0]

Lesson learned. VWP is purely for tourism and visiting friends and family. If you ever want to go back, follow the steps that exactly match your reason for going. I would say your case was quite obvious you were going to work. The forms, tickets for 88 days (so no job to go home to?) combine d with staying at one place the entire time rather than travelling around as a genuine tourist might who was going on an extended holiday. Also the timescale of doing the ESTA, booking the flight tickets and leaving - all within a week. Did you have job interviews lined up?

No, we really weren't. It was solely for pleasure, the employment documents were just to show our ''prospective'' employer if it's all he needs to start the process. We wanted to stay in VB for two months because our housemate needed some help as he was going through chemotherapy and radiation. Also, we had a ball in VB the last time we were there, so going back again to it all sounded perfectly legitimate to us. If they wanted proof, they could've called anyone, even our so-called employer who didn't know when we were coming at all and was, is adamant in not hiring illegals.

I know it's too late to talk about this, but there were no ulterior motives. None at all. It was a silly move from us not to be upfront about the documents. That was what the CBP guy said.

We're just worried now that this might affect our future travels to other countries or immigration to said countries :/ That's the only thing we're worried about.

Also the timescale of doing the ESTA, booking the flight tickets and leaving - all within a week.

We were still working on obtaining those funds, so a lot of odd jobs and such. Why we wanted to go all of a sudden was because our housemate wanted us there before the 10th as his daughter was coming for a visit.

Did you have job interviews lined up?

As I said, no. Just a consult.

Edited December 10, 2015 by 787Groove