Thai wife of US Citizen for 10 years refused entry at airport

[asisflyer 47]

What % of posts on this thread offer useful and accurate information about immigration law or process?

a few....

What % simply pass personal opinion or judgment and provide no meaningful or helpful advice to the poster?

most....

How many contributors to VJ with actual statutory knowledge just give up on helping others due to the amount of this..

many... people just burn them out...

If you dislike AOS, then write a draft statute to amend the INA and push it around Washington or be silent.

For those using the "I" word constantly like a broken record spinning:

Read the Adjudicator's Field Manual reference for definition of "misinterpretation" and definition of "fraud" ... it is quite an elaborate

definition and you must fulfill the entire tautology to be so deemed. 8 year old visa, multiple prior U.S. trips, disclosure of intent on arrival. One of the judgment passers, kindly provide the citation that would lead to the conclusion of fraud based on what the person disclosed???? REPLIES? Even if something was mis-stated, the AFM/INA provides for his right to recant/correct his statements in a timely manner and be forgiven anyway.

For the BURN THE AOS'ERS MOVEMENT ON VJ:

Some people NEVER accept living away from their spouse/fiance. Many U.S. Citizens move abroad to war torn countries to be with their spouses sooner than be away. Others keep their U.S. job and home and ELECT TO VOLUNTARILY be away from their Wife/Fiance -- often for career/financial reasons but sometimes family/medical/etc. .. and that's their personal decision.... But why are so many distance marriage parties so judgmental on this site ....... I'm not the first to mention that the PREACHY JUDGMENTAL TIRADES generally by consular filers toward AOS filers are obnoxious. Oftentimes, bad information is given out trying to accuse, frighten, or misinform the poster when even the smell of adjustment comes into play........ Support each other-- stop the attacks!!!

Do you think H1B & L1's adjustments are doing you some harm too?

I ask to determine if its ANY AOS that bothers you or is it your strong personal feelings about PCI definitions in the INA ?

Also -- B2 AOS for an 8 year old visa with plenty of multiple uses prior is not going to alter consular officer approval standards....

the 30/60 rule actually came from DoS Consular Manual and not the USCIS AFM which is the irony of it...... and 8 years is a long time..

IRONIC THOUGH--- He's coming from one of the FASTEST DCF COUNTRIES out there.... he would have been done in under 60 days and with a Medical Expedite Letter probably far less!!!! ...... the AOS will take him much much much longer.

Please excuse the typos.... I urge everyone to act like a community and help eachother.

Edited October 22, 2015 by asisflyer

[Pennycat 880]

Do you think H1B & L1's adjustments are doing you some harm too?

And here's the heart of it. No. Not ME. Some of us are capable of feelings on behalf of OTHERS or in the interest of fairness IN GENERAL.

So no. No, I have not been personally, directly harmed by any non-immigrant visa AOS. But the fact that it is permitted DOES make those visas more difficult to come by for others (points to a broken system) and the fact that some people (not necessarily the OP in question or anyone in particular ) DO seek to game the system to their advantage DOES in fact hurt others. Which is not right or fair.

Literally NO ONE has told OP that he can't try to AOS from this B2. In fact, quite the opposite. SOME people, including a former Counselor Officer have said that it may prove difficult (time consuming/expensive, who knows) and it may not (which, by the way is yet another point to a broken system-- rules applied completely differently at at the whim of whoever has the file). To mitigate this potential difficultly, it is also possible to apply now for an expedited CR-1 to avoid that potential hassle. No one has said that this OP has committed fraud. in fact, because they were honest and let in, everyone has indicated quite the opposite (with frustration/indignation focused solely at CBP).

Where the OP has clearly ruffled feathers is his complaining about this golden ticket. They hassled them at the airport! Goodness me, will the injustices of the immigration system never cease! They might have to apply for the correct visa! YIKES what a burden! THAT'S the ridiculous part. Not the AOSing, not even the somehow not knowing/not checking in advance how to go about immigrating. Can you understand how these three things can all coexist? (1) Frustration at the broken system while (2) not necessarily begrudging the actual individuals who are lucky enough to benefit from the broken system? But (3) certainly feeling more than a bit peeved the the lucky lottery winners don't feel that it's good enough for them?

[Pitaya 2,576]

~Moved from WST-based AOS to General Immigration-Related Discussion Forum~

[HFM181818 748]

simple solution: END ALL AOS FROM B2 VISAS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.....PERIOD....

[asisflyer 47]

simple solution: END ALL AOS FROM B2 VISAS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.....PERIOD....

What about H1B ? L? O1? M ? F? J1? Ban AOS there or not? What about B1 (biz/invest) to EB5 Conditonal Resident? Same there ?

Treaty Traders? block them ?

Should the magical "THEY" do that --- or are you going to draft the amendments to the INA, circulate it, and lobby for your changes?

Executive action and administrative executive standards cannot accomplish you goal, only Congressional amendment of the INA.

PEOPLE ON VJ ARE POLITICAL WHEN NEEDED

When DACA got priority ahead of legal immigration, many on this site contacted Congressman, White House, Media etc.

We lobbied Congressman, set online petitions, spoke to Ombudsman at USCIS, DHS leadership, and others. We had

several major media articles instigated by outreach to reporters.

I wrote sample question and emailed to Senator Cruz and others.. and guess what...

I heard my questions ASKED of USCIS executive leadership on CSPAN...

On a USCIS Director Q&A call-in, a member of this site asked the USCIS Director himself about delays....

I support your right to have an opinion..... but why share it if you don't act on it... if its what you believe.. the get on it mate!!!!

Ironically, a lot of people think that part-time relationships via K-1/K-3 using Skype logs as evidence should be closed off...

This has come up in Congressional hearings..... I think its much more likely to see K-1's limited than what you suggest.

The 1 year living together in U.S. or overseas before immigration benefits has been suggested....

[AC1022 27]

And here's the heart of it. No. Not ME. Some of us are capable of feelings on behalf of OTHERS or in the interest of fairness IN GENERAL.

So no. No, I have not been personally, directly harmed by any non-immigrant visa AOS. But the fact that it is permitted DOES make those visas more difficult to come by for others (points to a broken system) and the fact that some people (not necessarily the OP in question or anyone in particular ) DO seek to game the system to their advantage DOES in fact hurt others. Which is not right or fair.

Literally NO ONE has told OP that he can't try to AOS from this B2. In fact, quite the opposite. SOME people, including a former Counselor Officer have said that it may prove difficult (time consuming/expensive, who knows) and it may not (which, by the way is yet another point to a broken system-- rules applied completely differently at at the whim of whoever has the file). To mitigate this potential difficultly, it is also possible to apply now for an expedited CR-1 to avoid that potential hassle. No one has said that this OP has committed fraud. in fact, because they were honest and let in, everyone has indicated quite the opposite (with frustration/indignation focused solely at CBP).

Where the OP has clearly ruffled feathers is his complaining about this golden ticket. They hassled them at the airport! Goodness me, will the injustices of the immigration system never cease! They might have to apply for the correct visa! YIKES what a burden! THAT'S the ridiculous part. Not the AOSing, not even the somehow not knowing/not checking in advance how to go about immigrating. Can you understand how these three things can all coexist? (1) Frustration at the broken system while (2) not necessarily begrudging the actual individuals who are lucky enough to benefit from the broken system? But (3) certainly feeling more than a bit peeved the the lucky lottery winners don't feel that it's good enough for them?

Not everyone thinks being granted permanent residency in the United States is as lucky as it can be just like winning the lottery, yes it is not a right but a "privilege", which I still think is a ridiculous term. To me there is nothing wrong about what the OP said, so what he complained, what is the actual difference between him complaining about the service provided by the CBP and him complaining about a rude police officer/a mall security guard / or any customer service agent? He is the US citizen and I do not see any wrong with him claiming his right, as a matter of fact I thought most Americans are brought up that way. In addition, he is venting his frustration but not his wife's , I don't see any point of being annoyed since the actual 'immigrant' has not even mentioned in the vent! It's sad that some of the most strict scrutiny on immigration matters are coming from immigrants themselves on others..

[AC1022 27]

What about H1B ? L? O1? M ? F? J1? Ban AOS there or not? What about B1 (biz/invest) to EB5 Conditonal Resident? Same there ?

Treaty Traders? block them ?

Should the magical "THEY" do that --- or are you going to draft the amendments to the INA, circulate it, and lobby for your changes?

Executive action and administrative executive standards cannot accomplish you goal, only Congressional amendment of the INA.

PEOPLE ON VJ ARE POLITICAL WHEN NEEDED

When DACA got priority ahead of legal immigration, many on this site contacted Congressman, White House, Media etc.

We lobbied Congressman, set online petitions, spoke to Ombudsman at USCIS, DHS leadership, and others. We had

several major media articles instigated by outreach to reporters.

I wrote sample question and emailed to Senator Cruz and others.. and guess what...

I heard my questions ASKED of USCIS executive leadership on CSPAN...

On a USCIS Director Q&A call-in, a member of this site asked the USCIS Director himself about delays....

I support your right to have an opinion..... but why share it if you don't act on it... if its what you believe.. the get on it mate!!!!

Ironically, a lot of people think that part-time relationships via K-1/K-3 using Skype logs as evidence should be closed off...

This has come up in Congressional hearings..... I think its much more likely to see K-1's limited than what you suggest.

The 1 year living together in U.S. or overseas before immigration benefits has been suggested....

Hehe...well said.. if it's anything, K series should be limited but any other type of visa, I came here as a F1, used to be on H1B , and now I am on GC, what I have contributed to this society is probably way more than someone's foreign fiancee.. (no offense to anyone, I'm just talking about financial wise contribution since every month I'd have to pay over $2,500 just on income tax), We've spent over 2 years side by side before we decided to get engaged, which I still thought was a little fast. But we got engaged and got married anyway, so what we did not do any research, or waited a year being separated, lots of military wives are doing that and you don't see them complaining about 'it's unfair'.

I did not even know about fiancee visa until I started watching that TLC show, and to me, it is just one of those visa that needs the most scrutiny such as waiting for a year.

[Pennycat 880]

What about H1B ? L? O1? M ? F? J1? Ban AOS there or not? What about B1 (biz/invest) to EB5 Conditonal Resident? Same there ?

Treaty Traders? block them ?

Should the magical "THEY" do that --- or are you going to draft the amendments to the INA, circulate it, and lobby for your changes?

Executive action and administrative executive standards cannot accomplish you goal, only Congressional amendment of the INA.

PEOPLE ON VJ ARE POLITICAL WHEN NEEDED

When DACA got priority ahead of legal immigration, many on this site contacted Congressman, White House, Media etc.

We lobbied Congressman, set online petitions, spoke to Ombudsman at USCIS, DHS leadership, and others. We had

several major media articles instigated by outreach to reporters.

I wrote sample question and emailed to Senator Cruz and others.. and guess what...

I heard my questions ASKED of USCIS executive leadership on CSPAN...

On a USCIS Director Q&A call-in, a member of this site asked the USCIS Director himself about delays....

I support your right to have an opinion..... but why share it if you don't act on it... if its what you believe.. the get on it mate!!!!

Ironically, a lot of people think that part-time relationships via K-1/K-3 using Skype logs as evidence should be closed off...

This has come up in Congressional hearings..... I think its much more likely to see K-1's limited than what you suggest.

The 1 year living together in U.S. or overseas before immigration benefits has been suggested....

You do realize that the person you are talking to is a former Counselor Officer for the US State Department, right? He knows what he's talking about in terms of cause/effect of AOS from B2.

And in terms of activism, me personally, I'm with you there, too. Lots of us participated in that Q&A call and our group of K1s here on VJ is responsible for the workload realignment from TSC to CSC. Some of us are employees of other immigration related government agencies or Congress itself. You are preaching to the actual choir, and somehow suggesting that we are not involved.

Part time relationships? Really? Here I was thinking it was possible to disagree without being rude or mean- spirited. Do you even know what a K3 actually is? Because (spoiler alert) it's not for fiances or "part timers". It's for married folks. It is entirely possible and happens all the time for a CR1 applicant to be in a shorter relationship, with less face time over fewer visits than even the average K1. A supposedly intelligent and active VJ member shouldn't be so susceptible to fall for TLC's ratings-grabbing hype of K1s being strangers who are test running a relationship for 90 days. Getting married/saying engaged is a personal choice that most people have to make with immigration issues in mind (some don't have the luxury of marrying abroad, as their relationships may very well be illegal in the beneficiary's country). People who plan ahead, that is. If there's one thing I've learned from Visajourney is that a shocking number of people don't check into immigration laws before taking major action (like, getting on an airplane to immigrate, or getting married to their vacation fling thinking they can just hop on the next flight home with them etc. Or who got Facebook friend requested from some random person "developed a relationship", flew over for 2 weeks and got married).

Do K1s get abused? Absolutely. So do literally all the rest of them. It all depends. B2s, however, are particularly susceptible to abuse because they are comparatively cheap and easy to get so the lazy/cheap/impatient (or those with maybe something to hide) actively seek them out as a work-around to the immigrant visa process and the accompanying background checks (and time, and money, and effort).

Do I support banning AOS from B2. Maybe maybe not. There are clearly circumstances in which things change, people change etc and it is not fair to punish those folks for the actions of a few. But the abuse has GOT to stop. Perhaps if the "right way" was made easier and less of a random crapshoot luck, it wouldn't be an issue. Or if AOSing from a non-immigrant visa was perfectly possible but two or three times as expensive, to lower the cost of this "right way". Or AOS from K1 and other immigrant intent visas get immediate processing priority over AOS from non-immigrant visas etc etc. There are options besides keeping things the same and totally banning something.

[Pennycat 880]

Not everyone thinks being granted permanent residency in the United States is as lucky as it can be just like winning the lottery, yes it is not a right but a "privilege", which I still think is a ridiculous term. To me there is nothing wrong about what the OP said, so what he complained, what is the actual difference between him complaining about the service provided by the CBP and him complaining about a rude police officer/a mall security guard / or any customer service agent? He is the US citizen and I do not see any wrong with him claiming his right, as a matter of fact I thought most Americans are brought up that way. In addition, he is venting his frustration but not his wife's , I don't see any point of being annoyed since the actual 'immigrant' has not even mentioned in the vent! It's sad that some of the most strict scrutiny on immigration matters are coming from immigrants themselves on others..

Yeah... not talking about being grated permanent residency. Talking being let across the border without having the proper visa. That is like winning the lottery. It happens very infrequently, and is a good thing for those it happens to.

He didn't say they were treated rudely. He said that they were scrutinized and she almost wasn't let in. You know, because of not having the proper visa. Is this rude? Or is it their job? I suspect that they were actually treated quite kindly due to OP's health situation and the fact that she was, in fact, let in on a non-immigrant visa with immigrant intent.

It is absolutely not his "right" to have his wife in on the wrong visa. Sorry. I truly wish it were different, otherwise I myself would be long married and have had my husband here for nearly the past year. But it is not different. So the fact that this DID happen to him is really, super lucky. And he's complaining about it.

[Pennycat 880]

Hehe...well said.. if it's anything, K series should be limited but any other type of visa, I came here as a F1, used to be on H1B , and now I am on GC, what I have contributed to this society is probably way more than someone's foreign fiancee.. (no offense to anyone, I'm just talking about financial wise contribution since every month I'd have to pay over $2,500 just on income tax), We've spent over 2 years side by side before we decided to get engaged, which I still thought was a little fast. But we got engaged and got married anyway, so what we did not do any research, or waited a year being separated, lots of military wives are doing that and you don't see them complaining about 'it's unfair'.

I did not even know about fiancee visa until I started watching that TLC show, and to me, it is just one of those visa that needs the most scrutiny such as waiting for a year.

So everyone who would otherwise go for K visas would just for the unlimited, and less scrutinized B visas? And instead of waiting for CR1, everyone who was married abroad would just come over on a B and stay. So, elimitate all, let everyone in on a B and let it all sort itself out on the other end.

Good for you were able to be physically together for 2 years before deciding to get engaged. Some of us would have loved that. But were unable to secure B visas because of the past abuse of same by others. Ah well. So where's your criticism of the folks who don't live together or have any real engagement period before getting married? The ones who meet online, fly to wherever, get married and go for CR1, with automatic green cards in tow? Or are we pretending this doesn't happen? Does that magic piece of paper erase the inherent riskiness of bringing over someone you haven't spent much time with? Or are CR1s immune to abuse because.... why again? No AOS?

[AC1022 27]

So everyone who would otherwise go for K visas would just for the unlimited, and less scrutinized B visas? And instead of waiting for CR1, everyone who was married abroad would just come over on a B and stay. So, elimitate all, let everyone in on a B and let it all sort itself out on the other end.

Good for you were able to be physically together for 2 years before deciding to get engaged. Some of us would have loved that. But were unable to secure B visas because of the past abuse of same by others. Ah well. So where's your criticism of the folks who don't live together or have any real engagement period before getting married? The ones who meet online, fly to wherever, get married and go for CR1, with automatic green cards in tow? Or are we pretending this doesn't happen? Does that magic piece of paper erase the inherent riskiness of bringing over someone you haven't spent much time with? Or are CR1s immune to abuse because.... why again? No AOS?

I said to limit it, not eliminate it, and not sure if you really understand my post but I am all up for extra scrutiny on those who met online and claim being in love basing on several hours a day through Skype, it's not just to prevent system abuse, but also save some Americans from heart broken (could go either way though)

I've gone through the full immigration experience and there is still citizenship application ahead of me, still I would not just blame the system because believe it or not, comparing to many countries, US has been very progressive on this matter. Again like I said, if it really bothers you, do something in reality.

In addition, I will know how difficult it is and being separated from loved ones, my husband is going on deployment for over a year starting 2016, will we be able to skype? not sure, will we be able to talk on the phone? not sure, will he be able to come back not hurt? not sure, So if it's anything I think I'd have more reason than you to be annoyed, but again ask any military wives you'd know it's no biggie.

[HFM181818 748]

First, it's 'consular officer', not counselor...

second, I have spoken to my representative more than once, and in person, regarding limiting the abuse of B2 visas...because it would not cost the US taxpayers a penny! Arrive as a tourist, leave as one; abuse the privilege, it will be taken away from you...quite simple, really. A visa is NOT a right...it is a privilege and/or an object of trust (B2 especially)...live up to the trust given to you, then you enjoy the privileges; violate that trust, and watch the privileges vanish....and you will have only yourself to blame.

Many of you apparently do not know that B2 visas, besides being used (abused) to circumvent the K1 process, are also used (abused) as portable green cards, as aliens show up here, are given 6 months admission time (which is ludicrous), and instead of spending time at Disneyworld, are here working without permission, taking away American jobs and keeping wages low in many blue collar industries...often they arrive with their brats and promptly place those same offspring into public school.....AT YOUR EXPENSE....you will also be pleased to learn that many of those children occupying scarce space in overcrowded classrooms, receive free medical care at school, often free language training, but none of them have been medically cleared to sitting and sniffling next to YOUR child...no vaccination records, nothing....did I mention that in the Los Angeles area, cases of LEPROSY have been discovered, brought back to the US by......? yep, you guessed it....those 'tourist children' from some developing country....please think about that while contemplating rewarding visa cheats the next time some politician is wringing his/her hands about how we should bring all of these folks 'out of the shadows'......hmmmpf....

Constant abuse of B2 visas leads to increased skepticism on the part of countless COs around the globe, making it tougher for bona fide travelers to obtain them, more denials, more whining to Congress (or on this site!) about how mean or stupid COs are....or frustration as to why they don't believe your GF's story....

Again, disallowing any sort of COS/AOS from B2 visas, as well as clamping down hard on abusers of same, will not cost you a farthing...

[Pennycat 880]

I said to limit it, not eliminate it, and not sure if you really understand my post but I am all up for extra scrutiny on those who met online and claim being in love basing on several hours a day through Skype, it's not just to prevent system abuse, but also save some Americans from heart broken (could go either way though)

I've gone through the full immigration experience and there is still citizenship application ahead of me, still I would not just blame the system because believe it or not, comparing to many countries, US has been very progressive on this matter. Again like I said, if it really bothers you, do something in reality.

In addition, I will know how difficult it is and being separated from loved ones, my husband is going on deployment for over a year starting 2016, will we be able to skype? not sure, will we be able to talk on the phone? not sure, will he be able to come back not hurt? not sure, So if it's anything I think I'd have more reason than you to be annoyed, but again ask any military wives you'd know it's no biggie.

I'm with you there. But you're claiming that it's only fiance visas who do this (see the quote from your post below).

Hehe...well said.. if it's anything, K series should be limited but any other type of visa, I came here as a F1, used to be on H1B , and now I am on GC, what I have contributed to this society is probably way more than someone's foreign fiancee.. (no offense to anyone, I'm just talking about financial wise contribution since every month I'd have to pay over $2,500 just on income tax), We've spent over 2 years side by side before we decided to get engaged, which I still thought was a little fast. But we got engaged and got married anyway, so what we did not do any research, or waited a year being separated, lots of military wives are doing that and you don't see them complaining about 'it's unfair'.

I did not even know about fiancee visa until I started watching that TLC show, and to me, it is just one of those visa that needs the most scrutiny such as waiting for a year.

It's just as easy to fly across an ocean and get an engagement ring as it is to get a marriage licence. And it's even easier to come over on VWP or B2 with the full intent of staying. Or to pretend to be a student, come on a student visa or pretend to be an au pair and come over on a J whatever visa, and marry someone who would otherwise be ineligible to petition for a foreign fiance or spouse (certain criminal convictions, someone who has petitioned for multiple foreigners, potentially indicating green card marriage for profit)--this happens!

That is why AOS from non-immigrant visas should be difficult (or impossible, depending on the visa). To prevent this sort of fraud and therefore preventing perfectly innocent future applicants for tourist, student etc visas from being denied on suspicion that they'll do what their predecessors have done. And a good way to prevent people from committing fraud is to make the non-fraudlant way easier than the fraudlant way. So make it cheaper and quicker, removing the incentive to cheat. This is in NO way meant to imply that all or even most people who AOS from non-immigrant visas are cheats. Far from it. There absolutely should be room to AOS from many of them. But maybe the relative convenience of it could come at a bit of a price to dis-incentive the cheaters, and make the proper channels easier/more attractive?

And I know that more than just immigration couples know what it's like to be separated for a prolonged period of time. That is why the OP's complaint at the injustice that his wife MIGHT have to go to Thailand for a year is particularly annoying. How do you not see this? I'm not wishing them separated, far from it, especially given OP's health issue.

But for him to complain that immigration officials gave them a hard time immigrating on a non-immigrant visa (even though the eventually let them), giving them the chance to avoid even a day's separation is preposterous. And to further complain that there is the possibility that they will have to do what most other couples here and many other couples in other situations have to do as a matter of routine is just insensitive and entitled, considering that they're in a mess created by their own (although not uncommon) mistake.

Edited October 23, 2015 by CatherineA

[Eric-Pris 1,602]

And we were honest at the airport about our intentions, so there is no fraud

or pre-conceived intent.

I disagree. When you admit to CBP that you intend to emigrate, to me, there is no clearer way to show "pre-conceived intent".

I'll repeat what I said in another thread. It's shocking how many people go through immigration process (tourist, immigrant, non-immigrant, etc) without knowing anything about the process and procedures, and then learn the hard way.

I have no idea why they let you wife through, they should not have, since she admitted "intent to emigrate" right to the officer. I would say that they screwed up and didn't follow procedure.

[HFM181818 748]

I would agree....it is disingenuous to claim that there is no pre-conceived intent when the OP's narrative made it clear that there was pre-conceived intent....cannot have it both ways.