B2 denied is K1 the right way to go?

[HFM181818 748]

As an aside, if somebody has tried for a B2 several times, each time with a new and 'improved' reason for going, a different destination, or answered 'No, Sam/Susie is not my BF/GF nor fiancé....', then two weeks later, here comes a K1 petition initiated by Sam/Susie, well, a good CO will look deeply into this case and start quizzing the beneficiary about this discrepancy...is Sam/Susie your fiancé or, as you told us three weeks ago, only ' a friend...'...well, which one is he/she? And what might have been an easy case starts to hit roadblocks...because having lied the first time(s), you will find it difficult to restore your credibility as quickly as you might wish....and why would that be? Yep...because of all of the nonsense earlier...better to say 'visiting fiance', get denied, then start the K1 process without inconsistencies....otherwise, expect the process to take longer while you blame the CO instead of yourself.

I can tell you from my own experience that when I dealt with cases in which the beneficiary (and sometimes the petitioner) had tried to snow me (or my colleagues) multiple times, well, their case just seemed to take a lot longer, as our requests for more evidence kept growing and growing, while their attempts to fool continued...and sometimes, well, when they went too far or offered up excuses instead of what was asked of them, their case got dropped into an envelope and shipped by snail mail to USCIS...and all because they thought (a) I was stupid and (b) they were clever....

[cristina16 81]

As an aside, if somebody has tried for a B2 several times, each time with a new and 'improved' reason for going, a different destination, or answered 'No, Sam/Susie is not my BF/GF nor fiancé....', then two weeks later, here comes a K1 petition initiated by Sam/Susie, well, a good CO will look deeply into this case and start quizzing the beneficiary about this discrepancy...is Sam/Susie your fiancé or, as you told us three weeks ago, only ' a friend...'...well, which one is he/she? And what might have been an easy case starts to hit roadblocks...because having lied the first time(s), you will find it difficult to restore your credibility as quickly as you might wish....and why would that be? Yep...because of all of the nonsense earlier...better to say 'visiting fiance', get denied, then start the K1 process without inconsistencies....otherwise, expect the process to take longer while you blame the CO instead of yourself.

I can tell you from my own experience that when I dealt with cases in which the beneficiary (and sometimes the petitioner) had tried to snow me (or my colleagues) multiple times, well, their case just seemed to take a lot longer, as our requests for more evidence kept growing and growing, while their attempts to fool continued...and sometimes, well, when they went too far or offered up excuses instead of what was asked of them, their case got dropped into an envelope and shipped by snail mail to USCIS...and all because they thought (a) I was stupid and (b) they were clever....

Listen to this advise above. . You said NO when asked if your friend is your GF. That is on record. NO matter what other people may have experienced of somewhat the same as yours; they didn't deny a GF. That is pretty clear and you wanted to file for K1 right away with a "not GF" friend??

Wait after your next meeting then file for K1. Use the time in between to gather the requirements and forms then she can file when she is back in US.

[Pennycat 880]

As an aside, if somebody has tried for a B2 several times, each time with a new and 'improved' reason for going, a different destination, or answered 'No, Sam/Susie is not my BF/GF nor fiancé....', then two weeks later, here comes a K1 petition initiated by Sam/Susie, well, a good CO will look deeply into this case and start quizzing the beneficiary about this discrepancy...is Sam/Susie your fiancé or, as you told us three weeks ago, only ' a friend...'...well, which one is he/she? And what might have been an easy case starts to hit roadblocks...because having lied the first time(s), you will find it difficult to restore your credibility as quickly as you might wish....and why would that be? Yep...because of all of the nonsense earlier...better to say 'visiting fiance', get denied, then start the K1 process without inconsistencies....otherwise, expect the process to take longer while you blame the CO instead of yourself.

I can tell you from my own experience that when I dealt with cases in which the beneficiary (and sometimes the petitioner) had tried to snow me (or my colleagues) multiple times, well, their case just seemed to take a lot longer, as our requests for more evidence kept growing and growing, while their attempts to fool continued...and sometimes, well, when they went too far or offered up excuses instead of what was asked of them, their case got dropped into an envelope and shipped by snail mail to USCIS...and all because they thought (a) I was stupid and (b) they were clever....

I completely agree on all counts, especially given your perspective. I do think that it is important to acknowledge two things, though. First, many Americans don't fully understand the harm in what they see as a white lie in what is to them a "no harm no foul" proposition. I think that it is fair to assume that many foreign nationals don't either (and in some cases they could be influenced by their US citizen romantic partner who may be even less understanding... seeing this as a "stupid rule" and having some dreamworld ideal in which their sweetheart's passport is as strong as theirs). It could be less malicious than it seems at face value. A lie for sure and a grave mistake yes, but lacking the true understanding that it is fraud. Not an excuse, mind. But certainly an explanation.

Second, and worse, there is SO MUCH bad advice out there. Even here, where the average user here is probably twice as educated about these issues than the average American and certainly the average foreigner. When my now-fiancé was applying for a B2 visa, the "lawyer" he hired to help him fill out the paperwork (a necessity for him, as the DS-160 requires written answers in English), he was *strongly* advised to leave me completely off the application, or if he MUST tell the truth about who he's visiting, to call me just a friend. He received the same gem from multiple sources, and it was really very difficult to convince him otherwise. Again, with education about these issues (or education in general)....when someone in a position of authority (even false authority but who "reads" more knowledgeable than you) tells you that what you think you should do is absolutely incorrect and you will fail if you do it, and you've got $160 on the line (not an insignificant sum of money) and this advice is repeated by people who have been there done that..... it cannot be easy to go against it. To his credit, he listened to me. But it took me taking with some of my CO friends and putting it as simply as "we expect to be denied the B2 visa anyway. That lie probably won't help. But it will certainly hurt the K1. Why gamble a good chance at permanent visa for a bad chance at a temporary one"? That did the trick.

But it was really very hard for him to do it, against all other advice but mine. And while yes, it's my government (and my employer! ) Costa Rica is not my country and in many instances over the years I'd been caught in the "you don't understand how things work here" trap. So overcoming that (by reminding that whole I don't know Costa Rica, I DO know the US and now we're dealing with the US) plus the loud drumbeat of family, friends and a paid "lawyer" was tough.

For the record: we wanted the B2 for an actual visit. To spend more than 2 weeks together, to give him a taste of winter and city life to see if we should really proceed with our relationship. Loooong story short, he was unable to attend the interview and in the months between application and interview, personal circumstances changed to the point that his 10% shot at the visa disappeared, and the appointment was 4 hours away on the first day of his new job. We waited until my next visit (2 months later) and seriously discussed our options (slim by then) and decided that with the information we had, that the K1 was the best choice for us. But I'd still have preferred to have had a long visit here at least once first. Such is life. You make the best decision you can with the information and resources available, commit, and hope for the best.

Edited October 20, 2015 by CatherineA

[reazon 2]

So what should I do, admit a "lie" or explain the situation changed and we became "better" friends?

Well we were involved romantically, but can u really call that gf, you know what I mean, we see eachother but our relationship is not yet that solid to be on gf bf bassist, but then we decided to give it a shot?

Im a bit confused now?

[Pennycat 880]

So what should I do, admit a "lie" or explain the situation changed and we became "better" friends?

Well we were involved romantically, but can u really call that gf, you know what I mean, we see eachother but our relationship is not yet that solid to be on gf bf bassist, but then we decided to give it a shot?

Im a bit confused now?

I'd say don't offer any information they don't ask for. If they don't ask "when did your relationship become romantic" or "was she your girlfriend when you applied for the B2, you won't have to explain anything. That is why people are suggesting you wait a while before applying for the K1, and after a visit. More time plus a face to face visit may mean they don't ask.

If they do ask, don't lie. Explain your thought process honestly (whatever that is for you). I don't know what may happen beyond that but I'd assume that if this is as common as the CO has described, this isn't the type of dishonesty that can't be overcome. Don't put a lie on top of the lie. Besides how credible does it look that just months after failing to visit "just a friend " do you suddenly start dating, fall in love and decide to get married? Your truth is much simpler and more credible (even if it does admit some dishonesty). I can't really advise either way, perhaps others can. But for sure lies to cover up a lie is not the way to go.

[reazon 2]

Got it!

Thank You,

One more thing, what do You think would She coming along for the interview help boost our chances, or its the same?

Im asking bcs is it very pricy but maybe worth to consider?

[agrabs 237]

http://www.visajourney.com/reviews/index.php?trim=no&cty=&cnty=Croatia&page=1&dfilter=5&topic=

Read the reviews for K1 for the croatia consulate. It gives good information on what you can expect at the interview.

[Pennycat 880]

Got it!

Thank You,

One more thing, what do You think would She coming along for the interview help boost our chances, or its the same?

Im asking bcs is it very pricy but maybe worth to consider?

I think that it can always boost chances and is worth considering but not necessary. Wait and see how the next few months play out and how long your process takes. It may be 6 months from now to your interview and both of you saving money could possibly make it more possible than you think. I took a second job (nights and weekends) to afford repeated visits and the visa process itself. I make a good living otherwise, just not enough to conduct an international relationship the way I found necessary. Everyone is different.

[PerditaD 35]

Exactly the same scenario happened to me too. 'He's JUST your friend?' 'Yes'. B2 visa denied because I didn't show enough ties to my country.

It was never brought up at my k1 interview but I did have the denial letter with me in case they brought it up.

Yes we met in person, she traveled back to my country already, we have proof of our relationship, and we are planing to see each other soon again.

I am worried bcs I wanted to visit her in US and stated Friend in the tourist visa thing afraid if I stated gf it will get rejected.

And exactly that did happen, the lady who was interviewing me asked "Is She your gf?" witch I answered "NO"

Thank You for Your Help everyone!

[reazon 2]

Ah ok, what if they did brought it up, It was a honest mistake?

Thank you ppl for all your answers!!!

Exactly the same scenario happened to me too. 'He's JUST your friend?' 'Yes'. B2 visa denied because I didn't show enough ties to my country.

It was never brought up at my k1 interview but I did have the denial letter with me in case they brought it up.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Stjepan

[PerditaD 35]

I was worried sick that I was in trouble but if they had asked, I would have told them the truth, that it was a mistake or a confusion.. Though on my visa application I answered the person I was visiting was my friend because there was no 'fiance' or 'boyfriend' option.

Ah ok, what if they did brought it up, It was a honest mistake?

Thank you ppl for all your answers!!!

[HFM181818 748]

Again, the 'I'm gonna visit a 'friend' is so transparent to even the newest of COs, I am not sure why people still believe that this 'ploy' will succeed....I cannot tell you how many times I heard this one....and all it took was a few more seemingly random questions to bring the interview back to where I thought it belonged, with the applicant finally admitting the truth....but by then, their credibility had taken a severe hit and their application denied, in spite of apologies, 'I was confused'...etc....let them try and convince another CO on another day....when most people try to evade the truth, their body language (for a CO who is highly sensitive to such things) told the real story...from there, it was just a matter of time to finally wring the truth out of them....and most never realized how quickly their 'scheme' had been identified....of course, in some cases, two hours later I would get a phone call from the unhappy 'friend', who tried to either badger me into issuing the visa (good luck with that!!!!) or some end around efforts to get me to change my mind....I can say that I never changed my mind based on some phone call from some unhappy camper...because I trusted my judgment, not the judgment of some interested third party (which is actually the way a CO is supposed to adjudicate - using their own judgment, without outside influence affecting it).

Still, people tried....and tried.....and tried....sometimes with 'new and improved' stories, often resorting to attempts to generate sympathy (a good CO should not fall prey to approving visas based on sympathy - that is a terrible mistake)..or guilt....and much of the time, their carefully crafted stories would fall apart with some focused questions...and when these futile attempts failed, then I would be called 'rude, callous, mean-spirited', etc....by either the applicant or (more often) by their 'friend'....those same 'friends' found out that writing their congressman only made things worse rather than better...many of these uneducated (regarding the visa adjudication process) types erroneously believed that a congressman could/would call or write me, and 'order' me to issue a visa....cannot happen because Congress is in the legislative branch of our government, while the State Dept is in the executive branch...and, as some of you may remember from Govt 101, no one from one branch has authority over another person in a different branch of our government...

[Alimanu 77]

Too many grammar here... meet ones more, submit your petition. I think it is pretty straight forward.

You don't need a lawyer, just get someone to cross check the forms for you. Many of your questions are already answered here.

Remember you were not denied because you were going to see your friend, it is because you don't have strong ties to your country... generic denial letter.

Don't be in a hurry... take your time.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Alimanu

[Pennycat 880]

Again, the 'I'm gonna visit a 'friend' is so transparent to even the newest of COs, I am not sure why people still believe that this 'ploy' will succeed....I cannot tell you how many times I heard this one....and all it took was a few more seemingly random questions to bring the interview back to where I thought it belonged, with the applicant finally admitting the truth....but by then, their credibility had taken a severe hit and their application denied, in spite of apologies, 'I was confused'...etc....let them try and convince another CO on another day....when most people try to evade the truth, their body language (for a CO who is highly sensitive to such things) told the real story...from there, it was just a matter of time to finally wring the truth out of them....and most never realized how quickly their 'scheme' had been identified....of course, in some cases, two hours later I would get a phone call from the unhappy 'friend', who tried to either badger me into issuing the visa (good luck with that!!!!) or some end around efforts to get me to change my mind....I can say that I never changed my mind based on some phone call from some unhappy camper...because I trusted my judgment, not the judgment of some interested third party (which is actually the way a CO is supposed to adjudicate - using their own judgment, without outside influence affecting it).

Still, people tried....and tried.....and tried....sometimes with 'new and improved' stories, often resorting to attempts to generate sympathy (a good CO should not fall prey to approving visas based on sympathy - that is a terrible mistake)..or guilt....and much of the time, their carefully crafted stories would fall apart with some focused questions...and when these futile attempts failed, then I would be called 'rude, callous, mean-spirited', etc....by either the applicant or (more often) by their 'friend'....those same 'friends' found out that writing their congressman only made things worse rather than better...many of these uneducated (regarding the visa adjudication process) types erroneously believed that a congressman could/would call or write me, and 'order' me to issue a visa....cannot happen because Congress is in the legislative branch of our government, while the State Dept is in the executive branch...and, as some of you may remember from Govt 101, no one from one branch has authority over another person in a different branch of our government...

Easy: because people are first-time visa applicants only once in their lives, whereas you've dealt with first-time visa applicants on a dozens daily basis. There is a vast difference in perspectives there, and more often than not, they are getting strong outside influences. I think that people simply don't realize how much scrutiny they will be under and that "basically the truth" isn't the same as the actual truth and that people at the embassy WILL actually care (because honestly, from an outsider's perspective what IS the difference, legally, between just a friend and a girlfriend. Except for the whole lying about it thing).

I think, too, that there is a human tendency to think that you're exceptional. As in, you know that you don't have bad intentions like "all those other people" so that YOU fibbing to get a B2 isn't the same as others--- you don't plan to work, you don't plan to stay and adjust, you don't plan to overstay, so where's the harm in increasing your chances in getting what you want? (Please note: I'm not advocating this thought process or condoning it. I just can easily see how people could approach this with this mindset).

There's also just all that bad advice out there. And even worse examples of behavior. Again, for someone who has never done anything like this before, it is really hard to ignore the advice of someone with an air of authority, particularly if you're paying them for that advice. If they say "this is just how it's done", even if they are dead wrong, and even if your own instincts against lying to the US Government say otherwise, that authority of "professionalism" and "seen it all" can be really difficult to overcome for folks who may feel very, very small compared to this process (just imagine being a grown adult and needing hired help filling out a form for language/ literacy reasons. That'll humble you really quickly and make you more prone to listen to the "superior" person in the situation).

For what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that these "professional advice givers" still believe the ploy will work. I think that they know full well that it won't work. But they get paid either way. And besides, a visa reject is an opportunity for a repeat customer. Those people are slime.

I can't tell you how many times my fiance and I were told, both here and abroad, by US citizens, and immigrants (legal or otherwise) alike to just get the B2 and he can stay as long as he wants. A friend of the family's down there had a 10 year B2 and would come and go 6 months at a time, working the whole time. The funny/not funny thing is that people are *convinced* that it's not illegal immigration because they have a visa and aren't sneaking across the border like "all those other people" (you see this time and time and time again here, I can only *imagine* what it's like at the consulate). They're also convinced that they're not working illegally because they get (or had) SSNs and were paying taxes (this story is from the 90s when I think it was possible to get an SSN? Unsure. Don't particularly care, the "advice" was so outrageous). I heard the same from a friend of a friend (an immigrant) here who explicitly said not to mess around with a K1 visa, that we're doing it all wrong, just get him here on a B2 and he can stay forever-- you don't even have to get married. Insane (and infuriating from the perspective of people who want a B2 literally for a freaking visit, and knowing that it's unlikely precisely because of individuals like the friends above). I can only imagine how easily, though, people less diligent, or educated, or mature or any number of things can actually think this is the truth.

So, though, when faced with examples like THIS, that you know are illegal and fraudulent and you know that you just want a B2 because you literally just want to visit your girlfriend so you can spend more than 2 weeks at a time together before making the marriage leap and that you know if things work out between you you'll have a perfectly legal way to immigrate and work, a sense of moral superiority can emerge (see: infuriation above) and suddenly what is an outright lie to a CO's face ("no, she's not my girlfriend") looks like small beans.

Again, this is absolutely not right or an excuse in the slightest, but I think I can easily see why, from this type of applicant's perspective, it could seem like a reasonable option with a potentially positive outcome.

[baron555 934]

Hello everyone I have a question,

so I got denied on my tourist visa try bcs of 214(b), not enough strong relation to my home country.

I stated the reason to visit the US is Tourism and I will stay at my Friends (my Gf)

Problem is I stated my gf (i want to marry) is my FRIEND

Is K1 the right way to go, I am confused what do do, We are about to start the process and I am afraid this will kill my Chance, waste our time efforts and money...there was no intention of any fraud.

Please someone help me

Lots of people are denied a Visitor's Visa, and many times dues to lack of strong ties to the home country. Many continue on with K-1 petitions and are successful.

I wouldn't stress too much as to you calling your future spouse your friend, etc. If the petition were to be submitted now, it would be many months until your K1 interview.

Should the USC come to visit you? Sure, the more visits the better.

Could they submit the K-1 petition before the visit? Sure, doesn't really matter, as long as you two have met in person within the past two years of the submittal date.

Will you have to prove you two have a legitimate relationship? Yep, for sure.

Make sure you two have strong evidences of the proof of your relationship. Purposefully generate all kinds. Remember content is key, not quantity.