Britain will accept 'thousands more' Syrian refugees

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you are able, please copy/paste where I said that the Iraq war wasn't destabilizing. Any maroon knows it was. However, I stated that even without the Iraq war, or America's involvement in general, there would STILL be instability, murder, and mayhem over there. And that ISIS would still exist today. Which is 100% correct, considering the group was organized PRIOR to the Iraq war.

Not really all that hard to comprehend, if one only wishes to see the truth.

But that's silly.

Everyone knows that there were and are extremist groups in the middle east prior to, during and after the Iraq war However what there wasn't before the Iraq war was a huge power vaccuum that allowed one such group to grow out of all control and take over huge swathes of territory across iraq and syria, using huge stockpiles of military equipment abandoned by the US military.

The iraq war is a major reason why ISIS is a household name today. I get that you don't like that, but its the truth. An unmitigated failure on almost every level.

[Expat1 971]

This rationale is like happening on a murder victim and suggesting that the chronic liver disease the person had in life was more of a factor in their death than the multiple gunshot wounds to vital organs.

Your rationale is like coming up on a heart attack victim and declaring the bump on the head when he fell as cause of death.

Iraq invaded Iran in 1980. Why? They did not want the Shia-led Iranian revolution to spill over. They invaded Kuwait in 1990 over an argument that although Kuwait loaned Iraq money for the Iran/Iraq war Iraq did not think that they should pay it back since they prevented the Iranians from influencing the Shia population in Kuwait.

Iraq is majority Shia in population, Hussein's government was a combination of Baathists and Sunnis and brutally oppressed Kurds and Shias

Now, the Iraqi government is Shia, and ISIS is composed of former Baathists and Sunnis. The two sides fighting are Kurds and Shias (representing current Iraqi leadership) backed by and supported by Iran and Sunnis and former Baathists. Same war, same fight, all the way back to the Iranian revolution, but the people in power have changed.

Again, this predates Bush and continues.

The Syrian revolution kicked off during "Arab spring". Syria is governed by Shias, but the majority of the people are Sunnis. ISIS, being Sunni, enjoys the support of the Sunni tribes in Syria who want their own Sunni government.

You can blame this on America if you want to, but this conflict is age-old and Iraq is becoming the field for a proxy war between the GCC and Iran.

The war in Yemen between the Sunni GCC countries and Shia Houthis isn't Bush's (or America's) fault either. Same groups, same sides, same religious differences.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Trumplestiksin

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A heart attack is a sudden violent, event. Do you what also was a sudden, violent event? The Iraq war.

The patient might have been suffering from high blood pressure, but the US led invasion of Iraq is what sent it over the edge.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Weren't the Brits also very active in the Iraq war?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Weren't the Brits also very active in the Iraq war?

Yep we were. And Tony Blair should be slopping out a cell in the Hague, opposite Radovan Karadzic, along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Condi Rice.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin

[decocker 7,198]

Yep we were. And Tony Blair should be slopping out a cell in the Hague, opposite Radovan Karadzic, along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Condi Rice.

amen.

[Boiler 43,521]

The "easy life" on offer in Britain means migrants are willing to risk dying in order to cross the English Channel, the mayor of Calais has said.

Natacha Bouchart told the Commons home affairs committee on Tuesday that fewer than 10% of the migrants and refugees clustered at the port city wanted to stay in France.

And she said she was "disgusted" by David Cameron's refusal to allow into Britain Syrian refugees who had already made it into Europe.

"Today there are 3,500 migrants in Calais. They demonstrate every day outside the Town Hall," she said.

"Less than 10% want to claim alyssum in France. All the others want to come to England. And we are going round and round in this circle. Even if we opened up 50,000 places in France, they wouldn’t claim asylum in France."

Asked why this was, she said "ease of life of immigrants in England" was the cause. "That's why they are ready to die and claim asylum here. And people are dying," she said.

Yesterday Cameron said the UK would let in up to 20,000 refugees over the next five years. However he said these would be from the camps on the Syrian border. Refugees who had already made it to Europe, including those in Calais, would not be allowed in.

Bouchart also sharply condemned the prime minister for this policy. "I am disgusted by that, she said.

"You understand the position we have been in for the last 15 years. When I say Mr Cameron despises, is contemptuous of, Calais, he doesn’t take refugees from Calais, that's proof he is contemptuous of the population of Calais."

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The easy life in George Osborne's economy? Bit of a myth that one.

[Expat1 971]

A heart attack is a sudden violent, event. Do you what also was a sudden, violent event? The Iraq war.

The patient might have been suffering from high blood pressure, but the US led invasion of Iraq is what sent it over the edge.

You're amusing. The Iranian revolution was a regional heart attack. The Iraqi invasion of Iran was a regional heart attack. The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was a regional heart attack. The meltdowns in Tunisia, Egypt, and Syria followed by demonstrations and crackdowns in Bahrain and the fall of the Yemeni government - regional heart attacks. Where in that list does the US fit? Nowhere. The Iraqi war simply removed a government who invaded 2 neighboring countries in 10 years based on the same religious splits that are the basis of strife across MENA. Who is Isis? The remains of that government joined up with the radical sunnis who start these conflicts everywhere else. We are just finally seeing what they have always done and been capable of doing. They butchered Kuwaitis, gassed Kurds and Iranians, and cracked down on Shiite muslims. This was going on when Carter was president and continues through Obama's bumbling presidency.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's amazing that anyone would feel the need or desire to defend Bush and his crew of self serving pirates. Just amazing.

Ok sure, if you want to believe that your country isn't to blame for the current state of affairs - go right ahead. Yep when you remove governments and leave nothing behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with subsequent violent anarchy in the same country.

Effect with no cause.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Trumplestiltskin

[Expat1 971]

You missed a great opportunity to add value there. LOL.

[lostinblue 1,989]

It's amazing that anyone would feel the need or desire to defend Bush and his crew of self serving pirates. Just amazing.

Ok sure, if you want to believe that your country isn't to blame for the current state of affairs - go right ahead. Yep when you remove governments and leave nothing behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with subsequent violent anarchy in the same country.

Effect with no cause.

After WWI

Britain and France went on to partition the land of this empire, placing artificial boundaries. Artificial boundaries were placed in-between lands without looking into what religious and ethnic groups were there at the time. When boundaries where placed, ethnic and religious groups were placed together creating conflict. For example, Iraq was created by merging several regions together. This caused new ethnic and religious groups to be placed next to one another. As partitioning went on, these kinds of events started many wars, including the Arab-Israeli Wars. Religious groups like the Sunni and Shia Muslims began fighting, and ethnic groups like the Kurds and Armenians were separated, now wanting their own country. Many wars lasted on, lessening the chances of it ever being put back together.

http://www.parkerpedia.com/featured-articles/break-up-of-the-ottoman-empire

[lostinblue 1,989]

1947: Partition & Colonialism

The conflict between India and Pakistan originated as a clash between Indian and Muslim nationalism during British colonial rule. The Indian National Congress led the Indian-nationalist struggle, while the principal Muslim-nationalist political organisation was the Muslim Leagfue. As the British government retreated from South Asia after WWII, it served notice on these two organizations to negotiate a constitutional framework for postcol-onial India before its departure in 1947. But the bitter tensions created by the colonial legacy of divide and rule made it impossible for the parties to meet this demand within the prescribed time. Consequently, the British government imposed its own plan and departed. According to this plan, devised by the last British Viceroy, Louis Mountbat-ten, areas whose populations were predominantly Muslim, were to join Pakistan, while Hindu-majority areas were to be part of India.
In the 565 princely states of South Asia, which were not governed directly by the British, the decision to join either India or Pakistan was left to their rulers. They were, of course, not required to act according to their people's wishes. Jammu and Kashmir had a largely Muslim population but was ruled by a Hindu who decided to join India.
The boundary between India and Pakistan was drawn by a British lawyer Cyril Radcliffe. The incompetence and apathy with which the British colonial regime handled its departure had catastrophic consequences. Some three million people lost their lives and seventeen million were compelled to leave their homes.

We can blame bush for this mess also .

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

After WWI

Britain and France went on to partition the land of this empire, placing artificial boundaries. Artificial boundaries were placed in-between lands without looking into what religious and ethnic groups were there at the time. When boundaries where placed, ethnic and religious groups were placed together creating conflict. For example, Iraq was created by merging several regions together. This caused new ethnic and religious groups to be placed next to one another. As partitioning went on, these kinds of events started many wars, including the Arab-Israeli Wars. Religious groups like the Sunni and Shia Muslims began fighting, and ethnic groups like the Kurds and Armenians were separated, now wanting their own country. Many wars lasted on, lessening the chances of it ever being put back together.

http://www.parkerpedia.com/featured-articles/break-up-of-the-ottoman-empire

Pre-existing conditions vs. Direct causal factors. Saying "oh well it would have fallen apart anyway" is somehow insufficient when talking about a war that cost your country dearly in money and lives.

[decocker 7,198]

But that's silly.

Everyone knows that there were and are extremist groups in the middle east prior to, during and after the Iraq war However what there wasn't before the Iraq war was a huge power vaccuum that allowed one such group to grow out of all control and take over huge swathes of territory across iraq and syria, using huge stockpiles of military equipment abandoned by the US military.

The iraq war is a major reason why ISIS is a household name today. I get that you don't like that, but its the truth. An unmitigated failure on almost every level.

only makes sense..

ISIS propaganda material in the past has shown fighters flaunting what appear to be U.S.-made weapons, tanks and Humvees seized from retreating Iraqi forces.

The United States has supplied Iraq with hundreds of millions of dollars in military hardware — including humvees. Iraq's government said in June that it lost 2,300 Humvees to ISIS when the militants seized the city of Mosul.

Last year, an ISIS video claimed that an airdrop of weapons intended for Kurdish fighters had ended up in the militants' hands.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-shows-u-s-made-weapons-n419371