Virginia TV journalists killed in on-air shooting; suspect shoots self

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Access to a gun is not the only thing that is required for a crime to be committed. While a gun does provide distance between the participants and the perp, violent crime does NOT require a gun as some seem to think.

Perhaps this meme will help you understand it from a different perspective:

No that's complete toss. Without comparkng how the us and uk record crime stats its diffocult to make direct comparisons,however the most common violent crime in the UK are drunken after pub fights.

In terms of shooting incidents with multiple casualties I can actually name every major gun related incident going back to 1987. I doubt any American can say the same.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Doesn't the UK list ALL crimes in their national stats, regardless of the nature? Meaning there is no distinction in the severity or violence of the crime?

[Sousuke 1,214]

Doesn't the UK list ALL crimes in their national stats, regardless of the nature? Meaning there is no distinction in the severity or violence of the crime?

A good example would be a shoving match outside a pub - that generally gets listed as a violent crime in the UK whereas it wouldn't be in the US. The US lists, rape, murder, assault, and robberies as violent.

Its been a while, but I did once untangle the statistics between the US and the UK and get a apples to apples comparison. When you do that you'll find the UK has only a marginally more violent crime...like 2%.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A good example would be a shoving match outside a pub - that generally gets listed as a violent crime in the UK whereas it wouldn't be in the US. The US lists, rape, murder, assault, and robberies as violent.

Its been a while, but I did once untangle the statistics between the US and the UK and get a apples to apples comparison. When you do that you'll find the UK has only a marginally more violent crime...like 2%.

Way less fatal shootings.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Yet more violent crime, thanks to the homework of Sousuke. Interesting to note that even without guns, the UK has more crime. One would have thought that the US, with it's uber-freedoms on guns, would be the world leader.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You just have more cartoonish murders

[Expat1 971]

So you DO realize that a flag is a symbol?

In the case of the rainbow flag, the symbol is community. Humans are social creatures who do not do well when isolated. Unfortunately, in many parts of the US, GLBT youth find themselves isolated from the main part of their community if they dare to come out of the closet and even straight youth accused of being gay find themselves isolated. That isolation has contributed to the elevated levels of suicide that the GLBT community experiences. Depression and self loathing over imposed isolation is actually a natural psychological response to isolation.

The flag, to many of these kids, can represent the promise of future community. Hope is something that sustains people through incredibly dark times. As long as one can hope that things will become better, one can endure a great deal more than they otherwise would.

Now ban the flag. Ban the banner that represents a unified community to GLBT people. In so doing, you have managed to put forth the message that the GLBT community is so dangerous that allowing them a symbol is wrong. In so doing, you have told all of these isolated kids in extremist right wing communities that there is no hope for the future. Ban the symbols that belong to a community, that people can look at and say 'this is a community' and you imply, nay, even say directly, that the community is a problem and should be broken up and should no longer be able to unite.

So you take away that hope. It's not that the GLBT community is 'mentally unbalanced.' It's that it's made up of human beings. Human beings are social. Isolated human beings can sustain on hope. Take away hope and the natural consequence is death.

And keep in mind, this is also just the death toll we'd be talking about before all the jerk off homophobes that would love to go out and beat them some gays looked at the banning of the rainbow flag and said 'oh look, they don't have a community anymore' or 'look, we've declared gays illegal' and went out and murdered gay people.

For a great example of all this, look at Russia. You cannot 'promote' homosexuality without going to jail. This means Russia already effectively banned the rainbow flag, along with other symbols, from public spaces. The suicide rates amongst GLBT people skyrocketed and the police began turning a blind eye as homosexuals and suspected homosexuals are now hunted in the streets like animals, kidnapped and held against their will and beaten and pissed on and burnt and if they dare to speak up about their treatment, dare to complain to the police, nothing being done is the best scenario. The worst is that they're imprisoned.

Do you want to live in Putin's Russia?

Please don't jump off of that ledge. Nobody's taking your flag away.

I live in neither. I live in Saudi.

You could have just said yes. Just your explanation of why the death rate and suicide rate would skyrocket borders on nuts. The problem with suicidal people is that they don't care who they take with them. That's why suicidal people are locked up (when they are identified) so that they can't harm themselves and others.

That's not Russia, or Saudi. That's the good ole USA. Advice: Table the suicide threats and histrionics. That's not a good idea.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Expat1

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Please don't jump off of that ledge. Nobody's taking your flag away.

I live in neither. I live in Saudi.

You could have just said yes. Just your explanation of why the death rate and suicide rate would skyrocket borders on nuts. The problem with suicidal people is that they don't care who they take with them. That's why suicidal people are locked up (when they are identified) so that they can't harm themselves and others.

That's not Russia, or Saudi. That's the good ole USA. Advice: Table the suicide threats and histrionics. That's not a good idea.

I am not saying anyone IS taking the flag away. I am telling people what they are campaigning for when they campaign, even jokingly, for things like taking away symbols of the GLBT community. Huge regions of the good ole USA are under religious extremist rule right now, so the comparisons to Russia and Saudi stand. It's not my fault you've had the wool pulled over your eyes and that you're not capable of actually looking objectively at facts. You tell people that the gays are oppressing them, they'll double down on oppressing gays. It's that simple, too bad you're simpler.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Interesting how the discussion veered from the confederate flag, a symbol of hatred, ignorance, bigotry and anti-American sentiment, to the rainbow flag, which arguably stands for the opposite.

Please don't jump off of that ledge. Nobody's taking your flag away.

I live in neither. I live in Saudi.

You could have just said yes. Just your explanation of why the death rate and suicide rate would skyrocket borders on nuts. The problem with suicidal people is that they don't care who they take with them. That's why suicidal people are locked up (when they are identified) so that they can't harm themselves and others.

That's not Russia, or Saudi. That's the good ole USA. Advice: Table the suicide threats and histrionics. That's not a good idea.

I am not saying anyone IS taking the flag away. I am telling people what they are campaigning for when they campaign, even jokingly, for things like taking away symbols of the GLBT community. Huge regions of the good ole USA are under religious extremist rule right now, so the comparisons to Russia and Saudi stand. It's not my fault you've had the wool pulled over your eyes and that you're not capable of actually looking objectively at facts. You tell people that the gays are oppressing them, they'll double down on oppressing gays. It's that simple, too bad you're simpler.

[Operator 1,925]

Used as a means of identification I'm surprised that anyone is against banning any of them. Easier to identify those who fly their colors and all, it's those who fly a different flag or wear a different uniform in hopes of deception that are the real threat.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'm pretty sure the word ** is considered a slur.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Unawareness leads to shortsightedness.

The suicide rates are dropping. Why? Because there's hope. When there's hope, suicide is not the only way out. I don't know why you people cannot understand this.

I think so too. A moderator might be able to clarify that...

I'm pretty sure the word ** is considered a slur.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Unawareness leads to shortsightedness.

I find the shortsightedness and unawareness that come from the complete lack of empathy alarming and disturbing.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Yes it is disturbing but slowly people will learn. Eventually this generation too will be replaced. By the time our grand kids are around the backwards mentality of today will seem something out of a sci fi movie.

I find the shortsightedness and unawareness that come from the complete lack of empathy alarming and disturbing.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I'm pretty sure the word ** is considered a slur.

If you are referring to my use of the word **, and it is considered a slur here, I apologize. I thought it was generally accepted as short for homosexual. Obviously I did not mean to slight anyone.