Moscow Is ‘Ready for Combat,’ NATO Says

[Danno 1,228]

Russia has an interesting argument. This would be like Mexico saying that Mexicans in Arizona are being discriminated against, so they have the right to invade Phoenix. If they are Russians and have emigrated to Ukraine, why does Putin care so much about them anyway? I call BS on this argument.

Your comparison was a poor one, a very poor one.

Pretend instead we are concerned about the Vietnamese.... and ask if we would ever take action?

Or perhaps a country in the Balkans... would we get involved there?

Or if we thought Syrians were being mistreated.... would we threaten action?

Or if we thought Libya wasn't treating it's people fair.... would we take action?

Ukraine historically has been a part of Russia, Mexico was never part of the usa, we have no people there to speak of but even still I bet if it served our interests, we would interject ourselves into that country too. Just like we have in places all around the world.

Russia is going into Ukraine because WE ARE THERE with big plans for NATO......protecting their people is their excuse for going in.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Danno

[dalegg 143]

Your comparison was a poor one, a very poor one.

I didn't think so when I wrote it, and I still don't think so.

[Danno 1,228]

I didn't think so when I wrote it, and I still don't think so.

Ok, lets explore your comparison further then.

What do you think would be our response of Mexico formed a Military alliance with Russia.... and Russia wanted to install Missiles there?

Why were we so upset when The USSR has such plans in Cuba?

[SMR 368]

Russia has an interesting argument. This would be like Mexico saying that Mexicans in Arizona are being discriminated against, so they have the right to invade Phoenix. If they are Russians and have emigrated to Ukraine, why does Putin care so much about them anyway? I call BS on this argument.

The part you are leaving out is that the current Kiev government is not an elected government. It was put there by force. Once that happened, it lost all claim to other regions in Ukraine that never supported it and had no say in putting it in place. Democracy is a funny thing to begin with. But when "democracy" stops being elections and starts being violent street battles, it's hard to claim legitimate support, particularly from people hundreds of miles away.

If Skinheads took over Washington, D.C., suddenly Mexicans in Phoenix voting to be part of Mexico would be neither absurd nor unreasonable.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The part you are leaving out is that the current Kiev government is not an elected government. It was put there by force. Once that happened, it lost all claim to other regions in Ukraine that never supported it and had no say in putting it in place. Democracy is a funny thing to begin with. But when "democracy" stops being elections and starts being violent street battles, it's hard to claim legitimate support, particularly from people hundreds of miles away.

If Skinheads took over Washington, D.C., suddenly Mexicans in Phoenix voting to be part of Mexico would be neither absurd nor unreasonable.

By force? The transitional government in Kiev was created by the duly elected parliament. It did not come out of nowhere.

[SMR 368]

By force? The transitional government in Kiev was created by the duly elected parliament. It did not come out of nowhere.

The old government was removed by force. It doesn't really matter where the new government came from since it wouldn't exist until the old government was removed by force.

The new government claims that Yanukovich left because he wanted to or something like that. The more likely explanation is that he left in fear of force.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The old government was removed by force. It doesn't really matter where the new government came from since it wouldn't exist until the old government was removed by force.

The new government claims that Yanukovich left because he wanted to or something like that. The more likely explanation is that he left in fear of force.

Well, that's what we did in East Germany and all over the Eastern Block back in the late 80's. It's how you get rid of tyrants. Simple, really.

[SMR 368]

Well, that's what we did in East Germany and all over the Eastern Block back in the late 80's. It's how you get rid of tyrants. Simple, really.

I am absolutely not trying to insinuate it hasn't been done before. But it does make it difficult to claim your government is legitimate or that you speak for the entire country and are a the rightful successor, especially when people vote not to follow you.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Well, that's what we did in East Germany and all over the Eastern Block back in the late 80's. It's how you get rid of tyrants. Simple, really.

We were not 17 trillion in debt back then and we had a leader who wasn't taken so lightly. This time we stirred the pot but everyone knows we can't eat the soup. Questionable policy decision and seems to be backfiring in an epic manner.

Silly really; Yanukovich doesn't qualify in the least as a tyrant. He would have been gone in December and we would likely have a similarly west leaning government voted in who's legitimacy could not be questioned by regional powers or dissenters.

Unfortunate that we no longer have leaders who can assess a situation and act on it accordingly, rather than the other way around. Just act and make up a good back story afterwords. Violent demonstrations in Kiev = peaceful protests. Same thing in Donetsk = terrorist uprising. Please!

[SMR 368]

We were not 17 trillion in debt back then and we had a leader who wasn't taken so lightly.

Even then, Germany is sort of the only success case. The Balkans aren't exactly know as a bastion of stability.

[Danno 1,228]

We were not 17 trillion in debt back then and we had a leader who wasn't taken so lightly. This time we stirred the pot but everyone knows we can't eat the soup. Questionable policy decision and seems to be backfiring in an epic manner.

Silly really; Yanukovich doesn't qualify in the least as a tyrant. He would have been gone in December and we would likely have a similarly west leaning government voted in who's legitimacy could not be questioned by regional powers or dissenters.

Unfortunate that we no longer have leaders who can assess a situation and act on it accordingly, rather than the other way around. Just act and make up a good back story afterwords. Violent demonstrations in Kiev = peaceful protests. Same thing in Donetsk = terrorist uprising. Please!

Thanks to our people on the ground and Voices like McCain feeding them BS, they goaded the mob action beyond what was reasonable... beyond what could be achieved.

THe leader agreed to almost everything including early elections .. what was the reply "Leave office by 10;00 am."

Well thanks to big Mouths like McCains and in the State dept "warning" Putin to stay out of Ukraines business (even though we were all in their business)

Now Ukraine has lost its Industrial East and I am betting they loose the whole country as Putin does what he feels he must to rebuff NATO's advancment.

In the same way we divided Yugoslavia, it would not surprise me if Ukraine breaks in two, along Ethnic Lines because at this moment they are coming apart before Putin has even rolled the first tank into action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLcHkBv_Umw

[JayJayH 546]

Russia has an interesting argument. This would be like Mexico saying that Mexicans in Arizona are being discriminated against, so they have the right to invade Phoenix. If they are Russians and have emigrated to Ukraine, why does Putin care so much about them anyway? I call BS on this argument.

A large Russian population lives in Ukraine because Russia and Ukraine were the same country for most of the 20th century. When Crimea was given to Ukraine back in the 50s, it didn't really make much difference.

Let the peole vote who they want. Democratic.

But who gets to vote? If Mexico wants to annex El Paso County, does every Texan get to vote, or only the residents of El Paso (whom are 78% Hispanic*)?

*Not saying they'd vote either which way, but you get the point.

The old government was removed by force. It doesn't really matter where the new government came from since it wouldn't exist until the old government was removed by force.

The new government claims that Yanukovich left because he wanted to or something like that. The more likely explanation is that he left in fear of force.

What Putin and many Russians tend to forget, is that unlike America's Cold War sphere of interest, which was very pro-American, the old Russian sphere of interest (Former Soviet and Eastern Bloc) does not remember the Cold War era in a positive light. Hence why most of Eastern Europe are now both EU and NATO members.

Where the US kept its influence through soft power, the SU usually had to resort to military force.

[Pooky 3,367]

Why were we so upset when The USSR has such plans in Cuba?

Don't you think the Soviet Union might have had similar concerns regarding the Thor IRBMs that had just been stationed in Turkey and the UK at the time?

Funny how you never read much about the quid pro quo that the Soviet missile withdrawal entailed.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am absolutely not trying to insinuate it hasn't been done before. But it does make it difficult to claim your government is legitimate or that you speak for the entire country and are a the rightful successor, especially when people vote not to follow you.

A transitional government comprised of the forces represented by the people's representative body is good until the next election which would occur on an accelerated schedule. Such is the case in Ukraine. Tyrants - such as the ousted Ukrainian mafia boss - need to be run out of office since they will never allow to be voted out. That's just the way it is. The government with the least legitimacy is a tyrannical government such as the one Ukrainians got rid of. I realize that doesn't fit the Russian propaganda and I realize that the Putin trolls will object but, again, it is what it is.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We were not 17 trillion in debt back then and we had a leader who wasn't taken so lightly. This time we stirred the pot but everyone knows we can't eat the soup. Questionable policy decision and seems to be backfiring in an epic manner.

Silly really; Yanukovich doesn't qualify in the least as a tyrant. He would have been gone in December and we would likely have a similarly west leaning government voted in who's legitimacy could not be questioned by regional powers or dissenters.

Unfortunate that we no longer have leaders who can assess a situation and act on it accordingly, rather than the other way around. Just act and make up a good back story afterwords. Violent demonstrations in Kiev = peaceful protests. Same thing in Donetsk = terrorist uprising. Please!

See, this is where you Putin trolls have it all wrong. Nobody had to stir the pot for us to kick the Soviet puppets to the curb. We wanted to get rid of them in the worst way all on our own.