Fort Hood SHooting

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

All I have ever witnessed is the second one, or perhaps this one, depending on how its meaning is twisted...

"Within the context of the classical Islam, particularly the Shiahs beliefs, it refers to struggle against those who do not believe in the Abrahamic God (Allah)." To struggle against non-believers. To fight them. To kill them.

Quran 5:33 - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Sounds purty violent to me.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

There's quite a few passages that talk about love and peace, yet those get ignored for the more radical stuff like you posted.

Many countries practice Islam without incident.

[Danno 1,228]

If we change the words a bit, I think we would see this same prescription would be found for nearly all countries and kingdoms throughout time, nothing unique here.....especially when you consider drones and large prison systems had not been developed yet.

Quran 5:33 - "The punishment of those who wage war against America and it's Leaders and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

This shooting has been reported to have nothing to do with Islam. If we're going to discuss it, start a thread about it.

[Karee 4,189]

There's quite a few passages that talk about love and peace, yet those get ignored for the more radical stuff like you posted.

Many countries practice Islam without incident.

IDK, I see issues with Southern Thailand, Southern Philippines, Kashmir etc. where they have no problem blowing people up or chopping their heads off because the have a different god in the name of Islam. Those are countries with Muslim minorities. Then I look at countries that are Muslim majorities where Christians and other religious minorities are persecuted. Whatever the Koran says, it seems some are using it as justification for religious based murder and persecution.

You know my stance. I think all religion is a waste of time.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Karee

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Yet another sad shooting event at Ft. Hood. As one of the largest military bases in the USA, it is not difficult to sneak firearms past the gate. Just having a sticker on your car gets you waved in.

On the other hand, it's illegal for civilians and non-military police to carry a firearm. There is no way for the men and women of our armed forces to protect themselves from a crazed lunatic. Our enlisted personnel should be allowed to open carry on a military base.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

IDK, I see issues with Southern Thailand, Southern Philippines, Kashmir etc. where they have no problem blowing people up or chopping their heads off because the have a different god in the name of Islam. Those are countries with Muslim minorities. Then I look at countries that are Muslim majorities where Christians and other religious minorities are persecuted. Whatever the Koran says, it seems some are using it as justification for religious based murder and persecution.

You know my stance. I think all religion is a waste of time.

And yet there are millions of muslims here that live in peace. And we're not going around killing folks. It's an excuse. And all about interpretation.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yet another sad shooting event at Ft. Hood. As one of the largest military bases in the USA, it is not difficult to sneak firearms past the gate. Just having a sticker on your car gets you waved in.

On the other hand, it's illegal for civilians and non-military police to carry a firearm. There is no way for the men and women of our armed forces to protect themselves from a crazed lunatic. Our enlisted personnel should be allowed to open carry on a military base.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/02/us/fort-hood-shooter-profile/index.html

Sometimes it helps to post links before you make assumptions. The person who did this shooting WAS a member of the Armed Forces. Not a member of Islam. A soldier who appears to have suffered from PTSD.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

And yet there are millions of muslims here that live in peace. And we're not going around killing folks. It's an excuse. And all about interpretation.

In this case it was not a crazed Muslim who did the killing. All reports show it was an Iraq war veteran who was being treated for depression and anxiety, and a possible PTSD problem. This is an issue of having our military personnel on base not being allowed to carry a firearm in order to protect themselves when this kind of thing happens. It took a full 15-minutes for armed military police to respond and by that time several had already been killed and wounded. It's time for the military to reconsider its ban on carrying firearms on base.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

In this case it was not a crazed Muslim who did the killing. All reports show it was an Iraq war veteran who was being treated for depression and anxiety, and a possible PTSD problem. This is an issue of having our military personnel on base not being allowed to carry a firearm in order to protect themselves when this kind of thing happens. It took a full 15-minutes for armed military police to respond and by that time several had already been killed and wounded. It's time for the military to reconsider its ban on carrying firearms on base.

I'm at 19 years 3 months served. Been all over the world. Did a tour at Ft Hood. Never felt the need to carry. Not now, not then. We need to work on better treatment for the folks that go down range. Arming everyone isn't the answer.

And a killer is a killer, don't know why being a Muslim seems to add greater evil intent.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

I'm at 19 years 3 months served. Been all over the world. Did a tour at Ft Hood. Never felt the need to carry. Not now, not then. We need to work on better treatment for the folks that go down range. Arming everyone isn't the answer.

No need to arm EVERYONE. Personnel should have the option to carry or not. These are our troops who are trained to respond to these kind of threats abroad, so they also have the ability to respond to these events at home. Leaving them unarmed on base puts them at risk of being shot like fish in a barrel. Times have changed. It's not reasonable to inspect every vehicle and every person that enters the base. If our troops were allowed to arm themselves on base, then the killer could have been neutralized before inflicting so many casualties.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/02/us/fort-hood-shooter-profile/index.html

Sometimes it helps to post links before you make assumptions. The person who did this shooting WAS a member of the Armed Forces. Not a member of Islam. A soldier who appears to have suffered from PTSD.

Please, these people were making assumptions as soon as the news broke. They aren't going to start actually using facts now.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Please, these people were making assumptions as soon as the news broke. They aren't going to start actually using facts now.

So, what are the facts as you know them?

[LibCampFireClub 635]

The shooter, who served in Iraq in 2011, had been undergoing an assessment to determine whether he had post-traumatic stress disorder, according to Lt. Gen. Mark A. Milley, the senior officer on the base. He was also undergoing psychiatric treatment for depression. There was no indication the attack was related to terrorism, Milley said “although we are not ruling anything out.”

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/04/02/search-for-active-shooter-on-fort-hood-base/

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

No need to arm EVERYONE. Personnel should have the option to carry or not. These are our troops who are trained to respond to these kind of threats abroad, so they also have the ability to respond to these events at home. Leaving them unarmed on base puts them at risk of being shot like fish in a barrel. Times have changed. It's not reasonable to inspect every vehicle and every person that enters the base. If our troops were allowed to arm themselves on base, then the killer could have been neutralized before inflicting so many casualties.

But soldiers aren't the police, we have MP's for that. They're trained for this kind of situation. All members of the military aren't prepared to handle an active shooter. This is why we have Security Forces. You seem to think everyone in the military is a trained killer. I've met more pacificts here than in the outside world, some who refuse to even touch a weapon. I know how to engage someone, due to ASF(Auxiliary Security Forces) training, but I volunteered for it. Having a bunch of people armed without the proper training or mind set would lead to more issues that it would solve.

There is no sure fire way to neutralize a shooter. Reaction time is critical. Most of the time these things happen within a split second, usually caught completely by surprise. And trust me, there are several members of the Armed Forces I am grateful can't carry a gun legally. I fear them more than I do some average Joe on the street.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yet more gun related madness. Just another day in the USA.

Yup, that's all it is. But we'll pretend to be shocked and saddened for a moment until we move on with this American gun madness. In fact, we'll hear that we need more guns to make it stop.