K-1 Visa Interview Denial 221 (g) - Help Needed!

[Sincerely Yours 0]

After successfully gaining I-129F approval, having a successful medical exam, and gaining the fiancee interview at the U.S. Embassy, Manila, at the end of Oct. 2013, my fiancee was denied a visa. She was not given any information or guidance, other than as the petitioner I need to contact USCIS for information, and was presented with a form with the following checked: "Ineligible under the following section of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) as amended: 221 (g) It was not established that the beneficiary and the petitioner have a bonified relationship."

We provided the proof of relationship recommended by many online sources, including multiple photos of the two of us together and with family, in the four years of visits to be with my fiancee in the Philippines, plus messages from 6 of the 7 years of our relationship. My fiancee brought with her to the interview call logs for the nearly daily calls she and I have had over the past year - many of which for over an hour, but wasn't asked to provide that evidence.

Without going into more specific details about our case, I am posting here to seek help in what to do in submitting a new petition and gaining a new interview, to help make sure (if there is a way to do that to a high degree of confidence) that we are able to provide sufficient evidence of a relationship and gain the long desired visa. I have searched online for some expert to help with this, talked with some law offices, called the State Dept. VIsa Customer service line, and talkded with a USCIS Immigration Officer. The State Department representitive gave NO information about the denial or ANY guidance on what is needed for proof - only saying I have to talk with USCIS about that when they get the paperwork returned from the Embassy in Manila. I then reached a USCIS Immigration Officer, who said it is likely the USCIS will once again approve the (new) petition, since they approved the petition the first time, but that he didn't have any information to guide me about what the Embassy needs to have as proof to grant a visa.

Surely not knowing what to do to help make sure the visa is obtained afer going through all this again, and wanting to find someone or some company that can really help, I am turning to those on the Visa Journey here that can offer helpful guidance.

[Al422 221]

It is time for you to consult with an immigration lawyer. You really need some top expertise here working for you.

[da-girl 0]

I have the same issue. Denied on 10/09/13, still no info from USCIS and NVC. My fiance did contact the congressman of his district this week for help. Atleast, we will know where the file is when he responds. However, welcome to the club and happy waiting.

[Girl from Celebes 588]

I'm not an expert but sometimes people were given vague reasons from US embassy about denial for any type of visas. Did you ask your fiancee what kind questions CO asked to her?

Also, I read another post here that most of times they already made decision even before the interview has taken a place. Which means they studied all papers are sent with K-1 visa application including I-129F package. That's why there are circumtances that they did not even bother to looked up a bunch of papers you've brought to interview.

[Sincerely Yours 0]

I appreciate the quick replies already - thanks so much for replying to my post!

AI422, I agree that I really need TRULY expert advice at this point. I have called some lawyers that appeared knowledgeable by their online appearance, but I'm not convinced they are in talking with them. So many seem to want to collect fees but not promise too much. Do you have advice of how to find a true expert to help with this?

da-girl, we are indeed in the same boat - I surely emphasize. I contacted my Congressman and 2 days after the interview he sent an inquiry to the Embassy, which simply told him the decision was made and that was that (The Congressman asked for further review of evidence). I'm going to see if I can get an appointment at the Embassy to talk with some supervisors to at least have face time and see if they will tell me simply what evidence we will need to present to prove a valid relationship. Because the petition will expire before USCIS will work through a decision appeal, I will need to cancel the petition and file a new one. This time, I will provide even more evidence, including affidavits, more photos and being together evidence from my trip to visit my fiancee coming up, etc.

Girl from Celebes, thanks for your feedback. At this point, with a lot of online searching, I see lots of possibilities of what could have happened, so at this point I want to see if I can get the very best information about how to do things much better this time in proving the relationship and in coaching and helping my fiancee to deal with her interview. She is a typically sweet and gentle Filipina and not like a touch newswoman or hardened agent with a steely disposition and unflappable. But, from what I see online as I compile all the info. out there, she needs to be better prepared than she was in her coolness, memorized facts and all for the interview. What upsets me most is how an honest and loving couple has to go through such a production in providing relationship proof and in a flawless interview to simply be allowed to be together in America. This said, if I can get the best advice we will be as prepared as possible this time.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Sincerely Yours

[clairegie 265]

I'm sorry this happened to you. I found this thread and you might want to read posts number 10 & 14.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/338396-k1-visa-denied-uscis-received-it-after-1-month/

and this one too. I believe these posts might help in answering your questions

post 4

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/370741-221-g/

post 2

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/407139-visa-refused-after-submitting-documnets-requsted-for-221g/

Edited November 21, 2013 by iammrsregi

[Bugs 455]

The Manila consulate is generally not known for this type of thing so I'm guessing that the consular officer found some red flags in your case and used the blanket excuse to deny you. Someone else in this thread mentioned that they make a decision before interviewing you.

I would focus on finding and figuring out what those red flags are and specifically addressing them, rather than just bulking up more on the evidence in a general fashion. It doesn't matter how many times you re-apply, it won't solve the problem unless the reasons for the denial are corrected.

Approach everything that you and she wrote in all the applications and evidence from a skeptical consular official's viewpoint to try and find these red flags. And examine all the questions that were asked in the interviews, seeing if you can remember if any were asked repeatedly or if any area was focused on in the questioning more than others.

[Sincerely Yours 0]

iammrsregi, Thanks so much for your thoughtful and caring feedback post. I am studying the links and have gained some very good information from them. I am very impressed and happy with the support I see here.

Leon & Mylen, First of all, I love your constantly moving ant. I enjoy the sense of humor. I understand well you points about red flags. I have been assessing the red flags evidenced by what the CO asked of my fiancee in her interview. These questions revolved around the following:

• The large age difference: The CO asked about when we first met person in 2009, and then about subsequent times together in 2010, 2011, and 2012, pointing out our ages at those meetings. I think my fiancee answered these inquiries very well, describing how our relationship grew naturally from friends to eventually falling in love.
• Separation Date from former wife: The CO then asked what was the date of my separation from my former wife. My fiancee correctly answered that my former wife and I separated 19 years before our divorce in 2012. The CO asked the same question again and my fiancee gave the same answer. Then the CO looked like she didn't like the answers, so my fiance had a nervous reaction and started to look through the papers she brought with her. [it turns out that my divorce decree inaccurately says my former wife and I signed a separation and support agreement in 2009 (it was actually the property settlement and support agreement - we have no formal separation agreement, but did not cohabitate after Aug. 1993 until our divorce)]. At that point the CO said something about that isn't right and went through a door behind her interview position for 2-3 minutes. The CO then returned and simply told my fiancee to go to another window (with not other statement or explanation). At the other window, my fiancee was handed a form with the box checked saying: Ineligible under the following section of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) as amended: 221 (g) It was not established that the beneficiary and the petitioner have a bonafide relationship." The Filipino man handing her the form asked if she was given any information from the CO, and my fiancee said no. The man then said I will need to talk with USCIS to find out what happened and how to proceed.

Now, I am trying to figure out what to do next. I have checked with some immigration attorneys, and a "visa coach." I don't know where to turn to try to proceed on the best path to gain a visa. Clearly, the sticking point is coming up with convincing evidence of a valid relationship that passes review by the Manila Embassy. Some have suggested to go ahead and marry my love, but that would mean a longer visa gaining process, and I don't see enough evidence that this will really help in gaining a visa. I know we will have to either talk my former wife into changing the divorce decree, or at least come up with the right explanation to USCIS/DOS. I don't know if there is/are recommended attorneys or other experts to help us get things right for the next round through the Embassy, but I would surely like to gain good advice in this area. I really don't know who to trust or turn to at this point, but really appreciate the guidance I see and get here.

[Al422 221]

I don't know of specific attorneys to use here. But when you come up with some real answers, please let us know so we can do our best to avoid these pitfalls.

I am concerned that Candy and I only met once in person, but I have a valid medical reason for only going there once. I have cancer, and I sent the medical records in with my I-129f and will send Candy copies for use in Manila. My one trip took a toll on my already battered health, and I simply cannot go there a second time.

As for facts and records, I will get as much as I can to Candy for the interview. She is already seasoned at the interview process since she has been in the Filipino overseas worker project for most of her adult life. Each new country she works in requires a medical exam and an interview in Manila, and she never had a problem.

[Bugs 455]

iammrsregi, Thanks so much for your thoughtful and caring feedback post. I am studying the links and have gained some very good information from them. I am very impressed and happy with the support I see here.

Leon & Mylen, First of all, I love your constantly moving ant. I enjoy the sense of humor. I understand well you points about red flags. I have been assessing the red flags evidenced by what the CO asked of my fiancee in her interview. These questions revolved around the following:

• The large age difference: The CO asked about when we first met person in 2009, and then about subsequent times together in 2010, 2011, and 2012, pointing out our ages at those meetings. I think my fiancee answered these inquiries very well, describing how our relationship grew naturally from friends to eventually falling in love.
• Separation Date from former wife: The CO then asked what was the date of my separation from my former wife. My fiancee correctly answered that my former wife and I separated 19 years before our divorce in 2012. The CO asked the same question again and my fiancee gave the same answer. Then the CO looked like she didn't like the answers, so my fiance had a nervous reaction and started to look through the papers she brought with her. [it turns out that my divorce decree inaccurately says my former wife and I signed a separation and support agreement in 2009 (it was actually the property settlement and support agreement - we have no formal separation agreement, but did not cohabitate after Aug. 1993 until our divorce)]. At that point the CO said something about that isn't right and went through a door behind her interview position for 2-3 minutes. The CO then returned and simply told my fiancee to go to another window (with not other statement or explanation). At the other window, my fiancee was handed a form with the box checked saying: Ineligible under the following section of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) as amended: 221 (g) It was not established that the beneficiary and the petitioner have a bonafide relationship." The Filipino man handing her the form asked if she was given any information from the CO, and my fiancee said no. The man then said I will need to talk with USCIS to find out what happened and how to proceed.

Now, I am trying to figure out what to do next. I have checked with some immigration attorneys, and a "visa coach." I don't know where to turn to try to proceed on the best path to gain a visa. Clearly, the sticking point is coming up with convincing evidence of a valid relationship that passes review by the Manila Embassy. Some have suggested to go ahead and marry my love, but that would mean a longer visa gaining process, and I don't see enough evidence that this will really help in gaining a visa. I know we will have to either talk my former wife into changing the divorce decree, or at least come up with the right explanation to USCIS/DOS. I don't know if there is/are recommended attorneys or other experts to help us get things right for the next round through the Embassy, but I would surely like to gain good advice in this area. I really don't know who to trust or turn to at this point, but really appreciate the guidance I see and get here.

Looks like you pretty much figured out why they denied you. Good job of sleuthing.

The Manila embassy doesn't generally deny for a large age gap and doens't generally deny if you were legally divorced right before filing for the K-1 (you cannot file if not legally divorced however), but it was the combination of the fact that you met right before separating (according to the decree), divorced right before filing the K-1, the extra large age gap, and the fact that your fiance essentially lied (in their eyes) about what it says on the divorce decree that, in whole, essentially told them they simply do not have the proof that this is geniune. And the proof is on you, not them.

So looking at it from their perspective, it's understandable they wanted to know the details of your meetups while you were still legally married, but separated from, your ex wife and figure out why you begain these meetups right after separating and why you filed right after divorcing, especially with your age gap. Hence the questions about that. But, while a red flag, but still something normal and can be overcome with the evidence she brought. But then she lied about how long you were separated, and it was game over at that point, and why the evidence was not looked at.

Where to go from here: I agree a lawyer is a good idea, but it's hard to find one that has experience with this exact type of scenario, and with the Manila consulate at that. Like I say, they rarely flat out deny on the lack of evidence, unless it is pretty clear to be a sham.

My best bet would be for you to change the divorce decree, then provide an explanation as to why it was changed, AND evidence backing up that you were separated since 1983 (written affidavits under oath, addresses of residence evidence, tax returns, whatever you can muster up). This would address the issue specifically so that they can move on from it next time. Then you will of course need to address the meetups with more evidence they were genuine and not staged. Plus all the additional evidence of a genuine relationship to combat the age issue.

I also think that marriage there and filing a CR1 might not be a bad idea. It is a bit more time, yes, but that will be changing soon. At least it will prove that your intent to marry is genuine. But either way, you still need to address those red flags above directly.

[Sincerely Yours 0]

AI422, I have the greatest empathy for you and your lady, considering that you have cancer that makes travel so difficult, and proved to take its toll for the one trip you made. I wish you all the best, and a stellar performance in the interview.

Leon & Mylen, Thanks so much for your thoughtful and helpful response. I will consider the marriage and CR-1 route, and surely will be developing much more solid evidence of a valid relationship, including affidavits from solid witnesses of the relationship and more. I wish I knew where to turn to find an attorney that can truly give me the help I need. I hope some kind soul here that knows of a sharp attorney that can really help will advise me.