What a bunch of BS

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I'm not in the tourist business but I have been a tourist. I know well enough that a country want's to attract people of means to visit as they are the ones most likely to spend. so my point is that it will likely only inhibit those of lesser economic resources and thus not have much of an economic impact.

As far as trade is concerned Nigeria made up 0.5% of the UK's total export in 2012 and at the end of the day I doubt Lagos will cut of it's nose for a few tourist visas. India however is a larger trade partner and could have an impact.

The job of any government is to do what's best for it's citizenry not what is best for people who want to visit their families who have chosen to live abroad.

As for my comment about being "too lazy" that was directed at those inclined to illegally immigrate and no, I don't have much empathy or understanding of that reality.

Those of lesser economic resources do have to eat too while there. It won't make a difference for one family but it will have an impact

if many can't visit. Some prefer to stay in hotels and it will influence tourism in my opinion. Having been in 8 countries I have spend quite a lot of

funds over the years as a visitor.

What is best for a country's citizens includes the very citizens that have chosen to live abroad and their spouses. Perhaps the government's job is to be inclusive of all its citizen. They are, after all citizens not a sub category of citizens.

As to your "too lazy" comment, this thread is not about illegal immigration. We are talking specifically about the bond scheme for visitors in legal immigration and I do have empathy and understanding of that reality. If someone wants to get on the illegal bandwagon then please make your own thread. This is about legal and honest visitors who want to stay for a short time and can't come up with the bond of $ 4600.

That is my point.

No more no less.

Everything else is not focusing on the meat of the bone and derailing my point of discussion.

By all means discuss away whatever you like but do not put words in my mouth about illegal immigration.

No sense for you defending things I never said in the first place.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

UK hater??? Where do you get that from???

I stand for justice, fairness and equality of all human beings. I could care less which country violates any of those, I condemn them all equally. And I could care less about ranking countries by their "goodness" or "badness", that's just stupid and counterproductive. People, and the wellbeing of all people on the planet is far more important than some arbitrary creations we call "countries". Don't put words into someone's mouth when you clearly have no clue where they're coming from.

Admirable and I agree.

I had to chuckle posting at the same time about people putting words in our mouth. Sigh !

Let me not derail my own thread and start with the banks and their 'loans' to so called "lesser" countries. That would be a whole other story.

I see plenty of corruption dressed in fine suits, leather shoes carrying brief cases in the higher "ranking" countries. There should be

a bond scheme for the Wall Street clowns then too. Those elite that corrupt entire sections of a country.

[GandD 5,966]

UK hater??? Where do you get that from???

I stand for justice, fairness and equality of all human beings. I could care less which country violates any of those, I condemn them all equally. And I could care less about ranking countries by their "goodness" or "badness", that's just stupid and counterproductive. People, and the wellbeing of all people on the planet is far more important than some arbitrary creations we call "countries". Don't put words into someone's mouth when you clearly have no clue where they're coming from.

Agreed. This is why moving out of one country to one with more opportunity doesn't help the overall state of countries in this world. Ideally people would stay and demand change in their country. But I personally don't blame them for doing what's best for their family and change can be hard to come by.

[pddp 240]

Agreed. This is why moving out of one country to one with more opportunity doesn't help the overall state of countries in this world. Ideally people would stay and demand change in their country. But I personally don't blame them for doing what's best for their family and change can be hard to come by.

Actually, traveling and visiting different countries benefits everyone. People SHOULD travel more to broaden their mind, widen their perspective and lessen their prejudices by interacting with and learning from many different kinds of people. That would actually create a better world, as a whole.

It should also be up to the individual to choose however, and, more to the point, where s/he wants to live. Who are we to dictate where other people should live? There are a ton of reasons why a person might choose to live in a foreign country for varying lengths of time, or the rest of their life. I've lived in several countries over the years, none of which had anything to do with "searching a better life" in the economic or safety/stability sense. I would've been crushed if I hadn't been able to go, because of restrictions and discrimination based on my background. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Finally, we need to ask ourselves why is emigrating in search of a better life only acceptable when Western/white people do it? Think about it...

[GandD 5,966]

Actually, traveling and visiting different countries benefits everyone. People SHOULD travel more to broaden their mind, widen their perspective and lessen their prejudices by interacting with and learning from many different kinds of people. That would actually create a better world, as a whole.

It should also be up to the individual to choose however, and, more to the point, where s/he wants to live. Who are we to dictate where other people should live? There are a ton of reasons why a person might choose to live in a foreign country for varying lengths of time, or the rest of their life. I've lived in several countries over the years, none of which had anything to do with "searching a better life" in the economic or safety/stability sense. I would've been crushed if I hadn't been able to go, because of restrictions and discrimination based on my background. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Finally, we need to ask ourselves why is emigrating in search of a better life only acceptable when Western/white people do it? Think about it...

Yeah but England's issue is that they're not leaving after visiting. This is a problem. These people would not have to leave their country if they had the same opportunity there. Well, sorry, I mean the flow would be more bidirectional. Look at the US and Canada. Similar freedoms, similar opportunities, and the immigration flow is much more equalized. This should be the goal for all. The world should focus on people's reason for abandoning their home countries in such large numbers. I'm all for worldwide open borders once the playing field was a little more level. People should be moving to other countries for different or specific opportunities. It is a problem when they have no opportunity in their home country. Wouldn't you agree?

[himher 634]

It is always, always about the wealthy on this planet. Valid as in wealthy. To hell with a valid visitor who can't afford it, is a mentality to which I say

let the powers that be evolve into a more creative solution to make it happen that any Mom and Pops can visit whomever they want to visit, well screened

and not discriminated against and without demanding such an high fee.

Thanks all for your opinions and input. With some I just have to agree to disagree.

Visitors who can't afford their visit are not valid

[himher 634]

Admirable and I agree.

I had to chuckle posting at the same time about people putting words in our mouth. Sigh !

Let me not derail my own thread and start with the banks and their 'loans' to so called "lesser" countries. That would be a whole other story.

I see plenty of corruption dressed in fine suits, leather shoes carrying brief cases in the higher "ranking" countries. There should be

a bond scheme for the Wall Street clowns then too. Those elite that corrupt entire sections of a country.

There is a scheme for Rusky mafia and wall street clowns. It's called offshore banking in Cyprus

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Those that can't afford the bond aren't going to be contributing to the local economy to any extent that will make a difference. To suggest trade will suffer is bollocks.

To also think that it will curb illegal immigration is nuts. If people want to break the law paying a fee will just make it seem more justifiable, it'll only slow down those to lazy to raise the money.

I re read your post and understand now what you meant by too lazy to raise the money. I agree with that.

I was multitasking when I first responded to it and misunderstood you.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Visitors who can't afford their visit are not valid

A visitor is indeed valid if he has money for the ticket and accommodation but has a hard time raising an additional $ 4600 for the bond.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

There is a scheme for Rusky mafia and wall street clowns. It's called offshore banking in Cyprus

Now that scheme is a real scheme !

Alas, not only with the Russians in Cyprus but as you know with very prominent US politician in the Cayman Islands banks.

and all over Europe.

I am looking forward to that offshore 'scheme' and tax evasion to be stopped as much as the UK bond scheme. Both suck enormously

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Well yes you are right in that the government doesn't care about immigration and that these policies are to stop UKIP taking support from them. What this shows of course is that immigration is a huge issue. 75% of people polled in the UK think that immigration is in the top three issues that they are concerned about and that is legal immigration. Even among foreign-born UK residents responding to the Citizenship Survey on immigration, 49% express a preference for reductions and only 15% advocate an increase. Dividing the sample into white and non-white sub-groups yields similar results to the UK-born/foreign-born split, with about half of British minority ethnic respondents favouring reduced migration. So half of migrants and non whites themselves think that immigration needs to be reduced, it's hardly a racial keep the none whites out issue. It's more of the fact that the UK is one of the most crowded countries in the world and is not growing much economically therefore the workforce does not need to increase.

These points relate to legal migration of course, illegal immigration is even less popular. Before you start pointing the finger of racism at the government remind yourself that these people overstaying their visas and coming to the country with no right to be here are illegal immigrants. They know that they are breaking the law, as in any country deportation is a risk that comes with that. I myself want to migrate to the US, it is a time consuming and expensive process but I want to do things the right way and legally. These people do not contribute to the tax coffers (they can't as they have no NI number or tax code) and generally send a lot of wages back to their home countries while still using services such as the NHS. We don't even have any idea who these people are which is not good for national security. The billboards are nasty and pointless I agree but targeting areas to check for illegals where there are known to be a lot of illegal immigrants is not racist, it's basic common sense. They are hardly pulling ethnic minorities off trains and buses as you (and some left wing figures) allege, they are targeting individuals based on intelligence they receive; often home owners concerned that the greedy landlord next door has built an illegal annexe and is housing lots of immigrants there.

I can't stand racism and the far right, but I also can't understand why in one of the most crowded countries in the world people think that it's racist to have a firm grip on immigration. If the policies that the UK is pursuing deters even a few thousand illegal immigrants then it's the right thing to do.

Of course migration is one of the top issues in the UK. It is here in the US also.

And it is very easy to blame the other two issues on migrants. In the UK and in the US.

People talk that same talk over here as well. About the country only being so big. And they talk about the 'mezicans' sending all their money back home. About how they aren't taxpayers. Well, enough of the 'mezicans' became citizens in the US and so they could vote. And they sent a message loud and clear to our government. It's going to happen in Britain also - one day.

You spoke quite eloquently about Hitler and how your country helped bring him down. Hitler had men in the streets, checking people for their papers. How soon your countrymen have forgotten. In about six weeks I will stand beneath the statue of Churchill in your capital city. And I will wonder what he would think of all this.

This "firm grip on migration" - it can trickle into other parts of your society. Where everyone has to carry a document to prove they are legal. To prove they are entitled to the NHS. To prove they can rent a property. Will you like it if the natural born Brit has to do this? Isn't this what you are asking for? And remember before you answer - if you DON'T create a system where EVERYONE - no matter their color or accent - has to prove their legal work status, their legal access to healthcare, and their legal access to benefits - then that system profiles.

Be careful what you wish for.

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

Yes. Wealth and self interest rule this planet and to hell with anyone less fortunate is the motto of too many people.

Well said!

[LoveNigarmostyle 164]

Actually, traveling and visiting different countries benefits everyone. People SHOULD travel more to broaden their mind, widen their perspective and lessen their prejudices by interacting with and learning from many different kinds of people. That would actually create a better world, as a whole.

It should also be up to the individual to choose however, and, more to the point, where s/he wants to live. Who are we to dictate where other people should live? There are a ton of reasons why a person might choose to live in a foreign country for varying lengths of time, or the rest of their life. I've lived in several countries over the years, none of which had anything to do with "searching a better life" in the economic or safety/stability sense. I would've been crushed if I hadn't been able to go, because of restrictions and discrimination based on my background. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Finally, we need to ask ourselves why is emigrating in search of a better life only acceptable when Western/white people do it? Think about it...

Beautifully stated and said.

[himher 634]

It has everything to do with the best and brightest.

The Home Office statement said the visa bond “is the next step in making sure our immigration system is more selective, bringing down net migration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands while still welcoming the brightest and the best to Britain.”

UH yeah uhhuh I can see why the Brits need to attract some bright people from somewhere.

Holding what would have been money spent vacationing by visiting tourists in some brit government account isn't an idea cooked up by the brightest lights on the street / sharpest crayons in the box.

Especially since what is there to do and see? Some rat-infested dusty castles, a few shopping malls, and an old clock. Yippee and happy days.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24793092

"A Home Office spokesman confirmed a Sunday Times report that the policy would be scrapped."

So are we all friends again?

Pints of beers for everyone eh.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Gowon