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Kraz

VWP Denial

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Hello,

In 2006 I flew from London to North Carolina where I had gone through a lot of trouble. I was young and first time flying on my own and brought a birth certificate that lead them to believe that I was going to illegally immigrate and it was quite a whirlwind of events. I was allowed to stay for ten hours and catch the next flight back to London.

I was told I would be given all the relevant information when I reached the UK. All that was returned to me was my birth certificate and passport.

On my passport it's written "8cfr 217.4(a)(i)" the "I" could be a "1" it's quite hard to tell because it's all handwritten. There was no stamp and my UK representative told me that there shouldn't be any problems with me going back on the VWP as long as I didn't bring too much documentation.

If truth be told it spoiled my travelling experiences and I never bothered to go back due to the horrific treatment that I had recieved out of it all.

However I have relations in Florida that would like me to come visit and I'm unsure on what is the best course of action to take.

I've been told a set of mixed things such as I'm still eligible for the VWP due to the fact that I was allowed entry for ten hours. And others say that I was refused entry so I'm not eligible. I've been told that I'd need to go for a B1 or B2 visa, I'm unsure what the differences are but I'd need to have some sort of CBP document for my last journey.

So all in all. I'm just absolutely confused on where to begin! Any help would be fantastic!

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You were denied entry to the US, presumably because they thought you would not depart at the end of your authorised stay, and carrying your birth certificate was an indication of that.

I do not believe a previous refusal of entry means you cannot use the VWP again (being refused a visa does mean you cannot use the VWP again, but that's not what happened here) but you can expect a grilling by CBP if you try to enter the US again using the VWP. You should carry significant proof of ties to the UK if you try to use the VWP again, and expect a trip to secondary inspection on top of that.

Check https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1097/kw/withdraw as that indicates that your ESTA may be denied after a previous removal, which will require you to obtain a visa in the future.

Edited by Hypnos

Widow/er AoS Guide | Have AoS questions? Read (some) answers here

 

AoS

Day 0 (4/23/12) Petitions mailed (I-360, I-485, I-765)
2 (4/25/12) Petitions delivered to Chicago Lockbox
11 (5/3/12) Received 3 paper NOAs
13 (5/5/12) Received biometrics appointment for 5/23
15 (5/7/12) Did an unpleasant walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX
45 (6/7/12) Received email & text notification of an interview on 7/10
67 (6/29/12) EAD production ordered
77 (7/9/12) Received EAD
78 (7/10/12) Interview
100 (8/1/12) I-485 transferred to Vermont Service Centre
143 (9/13/12) Contacted DHS Ombudsman
268 (1/16/13) I-360, I-485 consolidated and transferred to Dallas
299 (2/16/13) Received second interview letter for 3/8
319 (3/8/13) Approved at interview
345 (4/3/13) I-360, I-485 formally approved; green card production ordered
353 (4/11/13) Received green card

 

Naturalisation

Day 0 (1/3/18) N-400 filed online

Day 6 (1/9/18) Walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX

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You were denied entry to the US, presumably because they thought you would not depart at the end of your authorised stay, and carrying your birth certificate was an indication of that.

I do not believe a previous refusal of entry means you cannot use the VWP again (being refused a visa does mean you cannot use the VWP again, but that's not what happened here) but you can expect a grilling by CBP if you try to enter the US again using the VWP. You should carry significant proof of ties to the UK if you try to use the VWP again, and expect a trip to secondary inspection on top of that.

Check https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1097/kw/withdraw as that indicates that your ESTA may be denied after a previous removal, which will require you to obtain a visa in the future.

Thank you for your reply!

I had read the link that you provided me. And from what I can gather if my VWP had been denied then I would need to apply for a visa such as B-2 Visa? But in my circumstance I had been refused entry so I may be allowed to use the VWP again? I'm not too sure on what could be significant proof of ties to the UK. A loan commitment? Proof of a job? Am correct in thinking that my previous visit my visa had not been denied but refused entry? I'm just trying to get a clearer understanding on what it is I should do to avoid a horrible incident again. The site does suggest applying for an ESTA and seeing how it turns out. Some of the sites give a quick quiz and one of the questions is that "Have you ever been denied or refused entry~" and normally I say "Yes" and the quiz thing always tells me that I fail and should just apply for a B-2 visa.

Am I right in thinking of ignoring this and when applying through the https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ site answer it honestly and take it from there?

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As I understand it, having a previous denial of entry will make it likely (although not a certainty) that your ESTA will be denied. You will not know until you actually apply for it though.

If it is denied then at that point you will have to seek a nonimmigrant visa to visit the US.

You must answer honestly at all times. Lying is a guaranteed way to get a lifetime bar from the US.

Edited by Hypnos

Widow/er AoS Guide | Have AoS questions? Read (some) answers here

 

AoS

Day 0 (4/23/12) Petitions mailed (I-360, I-485, I-765)
2 (4/25/12) Petitions delivered to Chicago Lockbox
11 (5/3/12) Received 3 paper NOAs
13 (5/5/12) Received biometrics appointment for 5/23
15 (5/7/12) Did an unpleasant walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX
45 (6/7/12) Received email & text notification of an interview on 7/10
67 (6/29/12) EAD production ordered
77 (7/9/12) Received EAD
78 (7/10/12) Interview
100 (8/1/12) I-485 transferred to Vermont Service Centre
143 (9/13/12) Contacted DHS Ombudsman
268 (1/16/13) I-360, I-485 consolidated and transferred to Dallas
299 (2/16/13) Received second interview letter for 3/8
319 (3/8/13) Approved at interview
345 (4/3/13) I-360, I-485 formally approved; green card production ordered
353 (4/11/13) Received green card

 

Naturalisation

Day 0 (1/3/18) N-400 filed online

Day 6 (1/9/18) Walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX

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As I understand it, having a previous denial of entry will make it likely (although not a certainty) that your ESTA will be denied. You will not know until you actually apply for it though.

If it is denied then at that point you will have to seek a nonimmigrant visa to visit the US.

You must answer honestly at all times. Lying is a guaranteed way to get a lifetime bar from the US.

Alright, thank you for your help.

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I thought once you were denied entry on the VWP it becomes void and you can no longer use it and must obtain a B visa? I hope someone can correct or corroborate that.

Good luck OP! Whatever you do, don't get a ticket or attempt to fly to the US before you have concrete facts either way. I really hope you can still use the VWP.

Edit: proof for a B visa is things like: lease agreement, job commitment, school commitment, loans, immediate family (spouse, kids).

Edited by Xanax

We became a couple : 2011-05-29
I visited him : 2011-10-28 - 2011-11-17
He visited me (and my crazy family) : 2012-02-05 - 2012-02-17
I-129F Sent : 2012-02-05
I-129F NOA1 : 2012-02-14
I entered on VWP to stay 3 months: 2012-04-11 - 2012-07-03
---
Went to get my medical done for interview in Australia (much cheaper in the US and I was already here):2012-05-20
Medical issue diagnosed
K-1 petition cancellation request sent to CSC : 2012-06-01
Married: 2012-06-21
Filed for AOS : 2012-08-08
NOA1 : 2012-08-10
Biometrics : 2012-09-14
EAD approved : 2012-10-16
Applied for SSN : 2012-11-01
Received SSN : 2012-11-13
Received interview notice :2012-12-27
Interview- APPROVED :2013-01-28
Green card received :2013-02-04
Baby girl born :2013-03-09

Filed for ROC :2014-12-05
NOA :2014-12-11
Biometrics : 2015-01-15

ROC Approval : 2015-05-14

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You would have to apply for a new ESTA and question F is : " F) Have you ever been denied a U.S. visa or entry into the U.S. or had a U.S. visa canceled?" I am not sure if that is an automatic denial for the ESTA but I would assume so as the other questions are things like: " B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities? " which I know would trigger an ESTA denial.


We became a couple : 2011-05-29
I visited him : 2011-10-28 - 2011-11-17
He visited me (and my crazy family) : 2012-02-05 - 2012-02-17
I-129F Sent : 2012-02-05
I-129F NOA1 : 2012-02-14
I entered on VWP to stay 3 months: 2012-04-11 - 2012-07-03
---
Went to get my medical done for interview in Australia (much cheaper in the US and I was already here):2012-05-20
Medical issue diagnosed
K-1 petition cancellation request sent to CSC : 2012-06-01
Married: 2012-06-21
Filed for AOS : 2012-08-08
NOA1 : 2012-08-10
Biometrics : 2012-09-14
EAD approved : 2012-10-16
Applied for SSN : 2012-11-01
Received SSN : 2012-11-13
Received interview notice :2012-12-27
Interview- APPROVED :2013-01-28
Green card received :2013-02-04
Baby girl born :2013-03-09

Filed for ROC :2014-12-05
NOA :2014-12-11
Biometrics : 2015-01-15

ROC Approval : 2015-05-14

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From what I was able to glean elsewhere, having a denial of entry does not mean that you cannot use the VWP again, but it does make it unlikely that another ESTA will be approved. As I told the OP, the only way to do it was to apply and see what happens. If the ESTA is denied then they would need to obtain a visa in the normal way.


Widow/er AoS Guide | Have AoS questions? Read (some) answers here

 

AoS

Day 0 (4/23/12) Petitions mailed (I-360, I-485, I-765)
2 (4/25/12) Petitions delivered to Chicago Lockbox
11 (5/3/12) Received 3 paper NOAs
13 (5/5/12) Received biometrics appointment for 5/23
15 (5/7/12) Did an unpleasant walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX
45 (6/7/12) Received email & text notification of an interview on 7/10
67 (6/29/12) EAD production ordered
77 (7/9/12) Received EAD
78 (7/10/12) Interview
100 (8/1/12) I-485 transferred to Vermont Service Centre
143 (9/13/12) Contacted DHS Ombudsman
268 (1/16/13) I-360, I-485 consolidated and transferred to Dallas
299 (2/16/13) Received second interview letter for 3/8
319 (3/8/13) Approved at interview
345 (4/3/13) I-360, I-485 formally approved; green card production ordered
353 (4/11/13) Received green card

 

Naturalisation

Day 0 (1/3/18) N-400 filed online

Day 6 (1/9/18) Walk-in biometrics in Fort Worth, TX

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From what I was able to glean elsewhere, having a denial of entry does not mean that you cannot use the VWP again, but it does make it unlikely that another ESTA will be approved. As I told the OP, the only way to do it was to apply and see what happens. If the ESTA is denied then they would need to obtain a visa in the normal way.

This is correct. I have seen cases where answering "yes" to that question has still resulted in an approved ESTA - though rare indeed. Since ESTA is a computer and not a human, I can only make guesses as to why this would be. However, an approved ESTA is an approved ESTA - Travel authorized.

Here's a similar case http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/361102-what-are-my-chances-of-being-denied-entry-after-b2-denial/

The most important thing is to be honest on the ESTA form. Lying on an ESTA form, having it approved, and then showing up at Miami International thinking everything is a okay will result in another 10 hour detention and a lifetime bar. Being honest and having ESTA denied will result in the hassle of a B-2 visa application.

Kraz, your answer is here ESTA. Fill it out. You get an instant response.

Edited by Jay Jay

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This is correct. I have seen cases where answering "yes" to that question has still resulted in an approved ESTA - though rare indeed. Since ESTA is a computer and not a human, I can only make guesses as to why this would be. However, an approved ESTA is an approved ESTA - Travel authorized.

Here's a similar case http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/361102-what-are-my-chances-of-being-denied-entry-after-b2-denial/

The most important thing is to be honest on the ESTA form. Lying on an ESTA form, having it approved, and then showing up at Miami International thinking everything is a okay will result in another 10 hour detention and a lifetime bar. Being honest and having ESTA denied will result in the hassle of a B-2 visa application.

Kraz, your answer is here ESTA. Fill it out. You get an instant response.

I agree with the bolded part but the example you cited was someone who came from a non VWP country, was denied a B2 visa (not entry on a visa) and then applied using naturalization from a VWP country to get the ESTA, Seems quite different to the OP's situation.


We became a couple : 2011-05-29
I visited him : 2011-10-28 - 2011-11-17
He visited me (and my crazy family) : 2012-02-05 - 2012-02-17
I-129F Sent : 2012-02-05
I-129F NOA1 : 2012-02-14
I entered on VWP to stay 3 months: 2012-04-11 - 2012-07-03
---
Went to get my medical done for interview in Australia (much cheaper in the US and I was already here):2012-05-20
Medical issue diagnosed
K-1 petition cancellation request sent to CSC : 2012-06-01
Married: 2012-06-21
Filed for AOS : 2012-08-08
NOA1 : 2012-08-10
Biometrics : 2012-09-14
EAD approved : 2012-10-16
Applied for SSN : 2012-11-01
Received SSN : 2012-11-13
Received interview notice :2012-12-27
Interview- APPROVED :2013-01-28
Green card received :2013-02-04
Baby girl born :2013-03-09

Filed for ROC :2014-12-05
NOA :2014-12-11
Biometrics : 2015-01-15

ROC Approval : 2015-05-14

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I agree with the bolded part but the example you cited was someone who came from a non VWP country, was denied a B2 visa (not entry on a visa) and then applied using naturalization from a VWP country to get the ESTA, Seems quite different to the OP's situation.

Agreed, it's not an identical situation in any way. But it referred to a previous visa denial and subsequent ESTA approval - New passport and citizenship is irrelevant on paper.

Again, the only thing to do is apply.

Edited by Jay Jay

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