Bush's Top Ten Flip-Flops

[Alex+R 0]

Your talking about 2 different things. One is Kerry's lying about his record and the other is about his bashing of the troops. Your changing the subject again!!!!

Gary,

1. This topic is called "Bush's Top Ten Flip-Flops," so that's what the subject is.

2. Sometimes the discussion of one subject suggests another subject. How has he changed the subject?

And what, exactly, is the problem you have with this?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I see you lost the argument about Kerry so to make youself feel better you posted another Bush hit peace. You feel better now?

Hopefully you can see how pointless it is to use such labels against politicians you don't like, simply because you don't like them. Find me a politician who has never 'flip-flopped', Gary. It's nothing but meaningless political rhetoric and anyone can come up with a list like that for.... Clinton, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr....etc.

Ummm, we were not talking about Kerry's flip-flops, although Kerry acts as though he invented them, we were talking about his bashing the troops. That has been proven beyond doubt. Your pretty good with changing the subject I see. Maybe you should run as the next Dem canditate for prez!

Following your logic ...wouldn't it be bashing the troops (soldier) by questioning the military integrity of a decorated war veteran? When is bashing not bashing, Gary? You can't have it both ways. It seems that you legitimize criticism aimed at people such as Kerry because you don't agree with him politically, but dismiss criticism aimed at Bush's handling of the Iraq War as bashing the troops. Ahd it's not just Kerry, it's Murtha, McCain...etc.

....

A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of his three purple hearts.

But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records.

One of the accusers says he was on another boat "a few yards" away during the incident which won Kerry the Bronze Star, but the former Army lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water that day backs Kerry's account. In an Aug. 10 opinion piece in the conservative Wall Street Journal , Rassmann (a Republican himself) wrote that the ad was "launched by people without decency" who are "lying" and "should hang their heads in shame."

And on Aug. 19, Navy records came to light also contradicting the accusers. One of the veterans who says Kerry wasn't under fire was himself awarded a Bronze Star for aiding others "in the face of enemy fire" during the same incident.

From the ad...

SBVT Ad "Any Questions?"

John Edwards: "If you have any questions about what John Kerry is made of, just spend 3 minutes with the men who served with him."

(On screen: Here's what those men this of John Kerry)

Al French: I served with John Kerry.

Bob Elder : I served with John Kerry.

George Elliott: John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.

Al French: He is lying about his record.

Louis Letson: I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury.

Van O'Dell: John Kerry lied to get his bronze star...I know, I was there, I saw what happened.

Jack Chenoweth: His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day.

Admiral Hoffman: John Kerry has not been honest.

Adrian Lonsdale: And he lacks the capacity to lead.

Larry Thurlow: When he chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry.

Bob Elder: John Kerry is no war hero.

Grant Hibbard: He betrayed all his shipmates...he lied before the Senate.

Shelton White: John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam.

Joe Ponder: He dishonored his country...he most certainly did.

Bob Hildreth: I served with John Kerry...

Bob Hildreth (off camera) : John Kerry cannot be trusted.

http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

Your talking about 2 different things. One is Kerry's lying about his record and the other is about his bashing of the troops. Your changing the subject again!!!!

Try to follow me on this, Gary. You claim that Kerry bashes the troops. You do know that the statement he made was aimed at the President and not at the troops? You did read his explaination? But you keep insisting that he went on the podium during election time to dis the troops. A distortions of reality to say the least...much like attacking his military record. If you don't like his politics, fine. But give it a rest about the personal attacks. Calling him a scumbag based on a knee jerk reaction like that is not intellectually honest. Go back to that thread that you made and read what I posted. I think anyone who's read my posts there will see my point. I'm not here to defend Kerry or any other politician, personally, but I'm going to call BS when I see it.

[GaryC 7]

Try to follow me on this, Gary. You claim that Kerry bashes the troops. You do know that the statement he made was aimed at the President and not at the troops? You did read his explaination? But you keep insisting that he went on the podium during election time to dis the troops. A distortions of reality to say the least...much like attacking his military record. If you don't like his politics, fine. But give it a rest about the personal attacks. Calling him a scumbag based on a knee jerk reaction like that is not intellectually honest. Go back to that thread that you made and read what I posted. I think anyone who's read my posts there will see my point. I'm not here to defend Kerry or any other politician, personally, but I'm going to call BS when I see it.

Your fading on me Steven. Try to follow me here. It's not just this last thing he said. It's his 40 year record of trashing the military. This is only the latetest example. Face it man, Kerry hates the military. Nothing more can be said.

[rellik 0]

I also believe Kerry stated earlier this year or late last year that the US troops were terrorizing people...then to add this statement, which by the way insults me because I have served in the military, is one in a whole host of military bashing Kerry has done in 40 years. During Vietnam, our troops were monsters and murderers. Just my two cents.

I do feel that had he just come out and said, without saying anything else, that it was a joke, aimed at the president and that he didn't mean the way it sounded. It just came out wrong. I think this would have been a real non-issue. But, my personal feeling is that this is John Kerry and how he really feels about the military. He has had serious issues with the military since he served and it's shown several times throughout his career...

Try to follow me on this, Gary. You claim that Kerry bashes the troops. You do know that the statement he made was aimed at the President and not at the troops? You did read his explaination? But you keep insisting that he went on the podium during election time to dis the troops. A distortions of reality to say the least...much like attacking his military record. If you don't like his politics, fine. But give it a rest about the personal attacks. Calling him a scumbag based on a knee jerk reaction like that is not intellectually honest. Go back to that thread that you made and read what I posted. I think anyone who's read my posts there will see my point. I'm not here to defend Kerry or any other politician, personally, but I'm going to call BS when I see it.

Your fading on me Steven. Try to follow me here. It's not just this last thing he said. It's his 40 year record of trashing the military. This is only the latetest example. Face it man, Kerry hates the military. Nothing more can be said.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I also believe Kerry stated earlier this year or late last year that the US troops were terrorizing people...then to add this statement, which by the way insults me because I have served in the military, is one in a whole host of military bashing Kerry has done in 40 years. During Vietnam, our troops were monsters and murderers. Just my two cents.

I do feel that had he just come out and said, without saying anything else, that it was a joke, aimed at the president and that he didn't mean the way it sounded. It just came out wrong. I think this would have been a real non-issue. But, my personal feeling is that this is John Kerry and how he really feels about the military. He has had serious issues with the military since he served and it's shown several times throughout his career...

Because Kerry acknowledge the atrocities during the Vietnam War, you call that bashing the military? That's pure ideological BS. Our country was founded on the principal of standing up against tyranny and injustice. The Vietnam War was an unjust war and it's not just Kerry who's stated that - that's an accepted historical truth. We didn't belong there. That doesn't have anything to do with troop bashing. The military is under the command of the sitting President and it's peculiar that all the criticism that Clinton got for the military engagements he commanded, no one said those who criticized or questioned the legitimacy of those military engagements were bashing the troops.

All you who like to label people anti-American, unpatriotic, troop-bashing...just be f#cking consistent. If those are the labels that apply to anyone who criticizes any American military engagement, then you better starting dishing them out evenly...or you lose all credibility.

Edited November 1, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Ban Hammer 14,642]

Because Kerry acknowledge the atrocities during the Vietnam War, you call that bashing the military? That's pure ideological BS. Our country was founded on the principal of standing up against tyranny and injustice. The Vietnam War was an unjust war and it's not just Kerry who's stated that - that's an accepted historical truth. We didn't belong there. That doesn't have anything to do with troop bashing. The military is under the command of the sitting President and it's peculiar that all the criticism that Clinton got for the military engagements he commanded, no one said those who criticized or questioned the legitimacy of those military engagements were bashing the troops.

All you who like to label people anti-American, unpatriotic, troop-bashing...just be f#cking consistent. If those are the labels that apply to anyone who criticizes any American military engagement, then you better starting dishing them out evenly...or you lose all credibility.

steven, these atrocities you think kerry brought to light were all unsubstantiated.........

[almaty 19]

George Waffle Bush

[rellik 0]

First of all, I never said anything about being unpatriotic or any thing of the sort. So, I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Secondly, Kerry has repeatedly disrespected the military, even when he was serving. He even wrote up his own damn awards, so don't give me any ####### about his service. If you've ever served in this countries military, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that anyone who writes there own awards, of course, is gonna walk on water. Thirdly, saying that our military is stupid, IS BASHING THE MILITARY....What part of that do you not understand????? His words!!!!!! Intentions be damned, he said it and he admits that he won't apologize for that......And if I'm full of ideological B.S. then so be it, I've given my freedom for that Jackass to spew his hate and for you to call me an Ideological idiot because I served. I was merely stating my opinion and limited knowledge of his recent statements about our troops today and Kerry's elitest attitude toward the world.

I also believe Kerry stated earlier this year or late last year that the US troops were terrorizing people...then to add this statement, which by the way insults me because I have served in the military, is one in a whole host of military bashing Kerry has done in 40 years. During Vietnam, our troops were monsters and murderers. Just my two cents.

I do feel that had he just come out and said, without saying anything else, that it was a joke, aimed at the president and that he didn't mean the way it sounded. It just came out wrong. I think this would have been a real non-issue. But, my personal feeling is that this is John Kerry and how he really feels about the military. He has had serious issues with the military since he served and it's shown several times throughout his career...

Because Kerry acknowledge the atrocities during the Vietnam War, you call that bashing the military? That's pure ideological BS. Our country was founded on the principal of standing up against tyranny and injustice. The Vietnam War was an unjust war and it's not just Kerry who's stated that - that's an accepted historical truth. We didn't belong there. That doesn't have anything to do with troop bashing. The military is under the command of the sitting President and it's peculiar that all the criticism that Clinton got for the military engagements he commanded, no one said those who criticized or questioned the legitimacy of those military engagements were bashing the troops.

All you who like to label people anti-American, unpatriotic, troop-bashing...just be f#cking consistent. If those are the labels that apply to anyone who criticizes any American military engagement, then you better starting dishing them out evenly...or you lose all credibility.

Edited November 1, 2006 by rellik

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First of all, I never said anything about being unpatriotic or any thing of the sort. So, I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Secondly, Kerry has repeatedly disrespected the military, even when he was serving. He even wrote up his own damn awards, so don't give me any ####### about his service. If you've ever served in this countries military, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that anyone who writes there own awards, of course, is gonna walk on water. Thirdly, saying that our military is stupid, IS BASHING THE MILITARY....What part of that do you not understand????? His words!!!!!! Intentions be damned, he said it and he admits that he won't apologize for that......And if I'm full of ideological B.S. then so be it, I've given my freedom for that Jackass to spew his hate and for you to call me an Ideological idiot because I served. I was merely stating my opinion and limited knowledge of his recent statements about our troops today and Kerry's elitest attitude toward the world.

Can you post me a link or a quote of Kerry where you believe he is clearly bashing the military?

I didn't call you any name. I'm saying that the argument which is made by many Bush supporters, that if you don't support the President, you are unpatriotic, anti-American, and you're bashing the troops - that is ideological BS. If you don't aspire to that notion, then it doesn't apply to you.

Let me ask you this..

Can a person justifiably protest a war? What would you call them? It seems that labels get used for everything under the sun these days.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

First of all, I never said anything about being unpatriotic or any thing of the sort. So, I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Secondly, Kerry has repeatedly disrespected the military, even when he was serving. He even wrote up his own damn awards, so don't give me any ####### about his service. If you've ever served in this countries military, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that anyone who writes there own awards, of course, is gonna walk on water. Thirdly, saying that our military is stupid, IS BASHING THE MILITARY....What part of that do you not understand????? His words!!!!!! Intentions be damned, he said it and he admits that he won't apologize for that......And if I'm full of ideological B.S. then so be it, I've given my freedom for that Jackass to spew his hate and for you to call me an Ideological idiot because I served. I was merely stating my opinion and limited knowledge of his recent statements about our troops today and Kerry's elitest attitude toward the world.

The only ones Kerry ever respected were John and Teresa (Heinz as in ketchup) Kerry.

[Ban Hammer 14,642]

Can you post me a link or a quote of Kerry where you believe he is clearly bashing the military?

Statement of Mr. John Kerry

...I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony....

WINTER SOLDIER INVESTIGATION

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command ....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we f eel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.

link

in other words, someone told him about something.........and that's called "heresay"

next?

Edited November 1, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[mawilson 2,133]

Who cares what Kerry said anyway?

Actions are more important than words -- Bush was the one who put the troops

in harm's way to fight a bullshit war against no-one in particular.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First of all, I never said anything about being unpatriotic or any thing of the sort. So, I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Secondly, Kerry has repeatedly disrespected the military, even when he was serving. He even wrote up his own damn awards, so don't give me any ####### about his service. If you've ever served in this countries military, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that anyone who writes there own awards, of course, is gonna walk on water. Thirdly, saying that our military is stupid, IS BASHING THE MILITARY....What part of that do you not understand????? His words!!!!!! Intentions be damned, he said it and he admits that he won't apologize for that......And if I'm full of ideological B.S. then so be it, I've given my freedom for that Jackass to spew his hate and for you to call me an Ideological idiot because I served. I was merely stating my opinion and limited knowledge of his recent statements about our troops today and Kerry's elitest attitude toward the world.

The only ones Kerry ever respected were John and Teresa (Heinz as in ketchup) Kerry.

Ah, yes... and Gore's flawed character, and Bill Clinton's and Jimmy Carter's and Hillary Clinton...and on and on and on. Yes, the Democratic Party is made up of elitists who care nothing about this country....wahhhhhhhhhh.

[Sinergy 3]

George Waffle Bush

[almaty 19]

Who cares what Kerry said anyway?

Actions are more important than words -- Bush was the one who put the troops

in harm's way to fight a bullshit war against no-one in particular.

you are indeed a right thinking type of guy