Marriage in US -> Return home -> CR1

[Owen_London 65]

Thanks everyone for the replies, particularly Nich-Nick for the link to the info on the London embassy site.

Reading through all your comments, it's clear that people's understanding of the situation does vary. However, I have yet to find any official statement that claims marrying under VWP and exiting the US is illegal.

In addition, I found this the "U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 9 - Visas" here http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87206.pdf (page 24)

"An alien proceeding to the United States to marry a U.S. citizen is classifiable K-1 as a nonimmigrant under INA 101(a)(15)(K). (See 22 CFR 41.81.) The fiancé(e) of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident (LPR) may, however, be classified as a B-2 visitor if you are satisfied that the fiancé(e) intends to return to a residence abroad soon after the marriage. A B-2 visa may also be issued to an alien coming to the United States:

(1) Simply to meet the family of his or her fiancé;

(2) To become engaged;

(3) To make arrangements for the wedding; or

(4) To renew a relationship with the prospective spouse."

Amusingly, google just found a link to this same document from this IR-1/CR-1 subforum, here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/353220-proof-that-marriage-in-the-us-without-k-1-visa-is-ok/

Is there any chance someone official could change the visajourney guides to make it clear that this option is legal, and supported by official documentation, linking the manual above? Maybe a separate guide under "if you are engaged", that goes through the basics and then transfers to the main CR-1/IR-1 page once the Alien partner has exited the US.

Thanks.

[Owen_London 65]

This is incorrect though. There's nothing incompatible with travelling for pleasure/tourism and getting married. People who want to get married do not have to get a K1 visa. Just as US citizens who want to get married in other countries can do so on a tourist visa (provided they meet the other requirements of the country.)

That last statement is not true, and I guess partly why I wanted to make sure we got things right.

I didn't mention it earlier, but the UK requires a specific visa for visitors for marriage, linked here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/visiting/marriage-cp/

It's not a big issue though, as that visa seems to take a couple of weeks to receive, rather than the many months of the K-1.

[grrrrreat 109]

That last statement is not true, and I guess partly why I wanted to make sure we got things right.

I didn't mention it earlier, but the UK requires a specific visa for visitors for marriage, linked here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/visiting/marriage-cp/

It's not a big issue though, as that visa seems to take a couple of weeks to receive, rather than the many months of the K-1.

Fair enough. I guess I was thinking about the Carribean countries where American citizens often go for "destination weddings".

[pushbrk 13,552]

OK so there you go, Cathy had success marrying on VWP. I wasn't sure how an immigration officer would view this. I guess anyway you look at it, the only way to stay together permanently following the wedding would be K1, but can't work for a while, more expensive.

You SOUNDED sure enough to call it LYING. It's not. Others have explained the real issue which is intent to marry AND STAY to adjust status. Even this is only a problem in certain circumstances that seldom apply to the spouse of a US citizen. When you ARE NOT SURE, please don't make rash statements. Somebody will be along shortly who IS sure.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

Hi

Re marrying in the UK...you said

3. Marry in UK, then pursue CR1 - This requires us both to be resident in the UK for 7 days plus 14 days before the wedding, so would use up all of my fiancee's vacation allowance.

This is partly correct.

If you want a civil ceremony then you have to give notice with your local authority. To give notice you have to be resident in the UK for 7 days.

(So when we did this my husband came over for an 8-day holiday and then we gave notice just before he flew home.

After you have given notice you cannot get married until 14 days have passed. Your fiancee does not have to be in the UK for those 14 days. Your 'notice' is valid for a year.

When we got married my husband came over in March to give notice (an 8-day trip)

And then he came back in July for the wedding. I can't remember how many days he was here before the wedding but it didn't matter because more than 14 days had passed since the notice was given.

So it doesn't have to take as much vacation leave as you might have thought.

Also we didn't pursue this option but I think the rules are different if you get married in a Church of England Church. I don't think the residency requirements apply for the foreign spouse - but I think you have to apply to get a special licence -check out the CoE website. http://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/weddings.aspx

And I think the rules are also slightly different if you want to get married in Scotland - I don't think they have the 7 days residency notice needed to get married. But they have a 15 day wait between the notice being given and the wedding taking place.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

An interesting comparison to the US system we all have to go through is that although my husband had applied for a marriage visit visa to come, get married and not stay in the UK. The border control officer said to him as he entered that if he did want to stay on after the marriage he could just go to this particular office and ask to adjust status and that would be it. It would have been so simple and stress free to have been able to do that as the marriage visit visa took just 5 days to get from sending the packet off to getting the passport back with the visa in it.

The UK marriage visit visa also gives you six months to stay in the UK as a visitor if you want it after your marriage. Which is nice for those couples who can take advantage of that.

[grrrrreat 109]

An interesting comparison to the US system we all have to go through is that although my husband had applied for a marriage visit visa to come, get married and not stay in the UK. The border control officer said to him as he entered that if he did want to stay on after the marriage he could just go to this particular office and ask to adjust status and that would be it. It would have been so simple and stress free to have been able to do that as the marriage visit visa took just 5 days to get from sending the packet off to getting the passport back with the visa in it.

The UK marriage visit visa also gives you six months to stay in the UK as a visitor if you want it after your marriage. Which is nice for those couples who can take advantage of that.

That's really interesting--so if you enter and get married, you can adjust to "indefinite leave to remain"? How does that compare with the process for seeking a visa for a spouse outside from outside the UK? It would be interesting if it were faster and easier for fiances to enter and stay than it is for already married couples.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

That's really interesting--so if you enter and get married, you can adjust to "indefinite leave to remain"? How does that compare with the process for seeking a visa for a spouse outside from outside the UK? It would be interesting if it were faster and easier for fiances to enter and stay than it is for already married couples.

This was back in 2007 and even then if you were planning to get married and stay you were supposed to apply for a different visa -not the 'marriage visit visa' which we did. But once he entered on that visit visa we were told it was possible. I checked at the time with the office we were told to go to and they confirmed it. (was just wishful thinking on my part as we were never planning to settle in the UK)

I think the correct visa for marrying and settling (Equivalent to K1 in US) is much easier and quicker to get so if that's the plan it's probably just as easy to apply for that one.

At the time my husband left to go back to the US 3 days after we got married and that was a hard thing to go through. We also got caught in the massive USCIS backlog of 2007 ( 90 days to get just the NOA1 - ten months to get NOA2) So we spent the whole of our first year of marriage apart. I was very upset with the time it took knowing we could have been together much quicker if we had chosen the UK. Of course now it's fading to a dull annoyance and I'm pleased we chose our beautiful UK wedding, it was very special getting married at home with all my family there.

[Darnell 8,479]

Option 5 is legal.

[trojam227 18]

You SOUNDED sure enough to call it LYING. It's not. Others have explained the real issue which is intent to marry AND STAY to adjust status. Even this is only a problem in certain circumstances that seldom apply to the spouse of a US citizen. When you ARE NOT SURE, please don't make rash statements. Somebody will be along shortly who IS sure.

That was a bit harsh pushbrk! I never said it was illegal, I said it was lying & risky. When he approaches CBP at the airport and they ask what his intentions are for visiting the US, if he says anything other than "to get married" that is lying. And if he does tell them he is getting married and she's a US Citizen, that's risky...they can put him on the next plane back home. If you do take this route Owen, bring proof of very strong ties to your home country. Any non-immigrant faces the possibility that they may be refused entry. Period.

[pushbrk 13,552]

That was a bit harsh pushbrk! I never said it was illegal, I said it was lying & risky. When he approaches CBP at the airport and they ask what his intentions are for visiting the US, if he says anything other than "to get married" that is lying. And if he does tell them he is getting married and she's a US Citizen, that's risky...they can put him on the next plane back home. If you do take this route Owen, bring proof of very strong ties to your home country. Any non-immigrant faces the possibility that they may be refused entry. Period.

No, it is not lying to fail to mention a wedding on your itinerary any more than it would be lying to fail to mention a planned visit to a public restroom. Any truthful answer is truthful. I recommend a more generic truthful answer than mentioning one's own wedding. You are simply out of your element and over-reacting. Yes, I'm harsh with people who give bad information to people looking for the truth.

Any visitor faces the possibility of refusal. It is just as legal to enter the USA with the intention of marrying a US Citizen and then leave to pursue a spouse visa as it is to enter with the intention of attending a football game, buying a burger and a brew and then leaving. Both are "pleasure" trips. Both are "holiday/vacation" trips. Both are "visits". Pleasure, holiday, vacation and visiting are truthful generic answers used thousands of times every day when asked for the purpose of a visit to the USA. Picking any one of those answers when planning to do each and every one of them PLUS getting married or NOT getting married is TRUE and legal. Take it to the bank.

[Owen_London 65]

After you have given notice you cannot get married until 14 days have passed. Your fiancee does not have to be in the UK for those 14 days.

Lynne, thanks, I wasn't sure about this so didn't want to include it. I think we still won't get married in the UK, as our UK do will likely be a bigger and more lavish affair, so take much longer to organise, but at least that leaves a UK wedding as an option.

Also we didn't pursue this option but I think the rules are different if you get married in a Church of England Church. I don't think the residency requirements apply for the foreign spouse - but I think you have to apply to get a special licence -check out the CoE website. http://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/weddings.aspx

And I think the rules are also slightly different if you want to get married in Scotland - I don't think they have the 7 days residency notice needed to get married. But they have a 15 day wait between the notice being given and the wedding taking place.

Yes, thanks. I've read the rules for both, as I always do a lot of investigation before I make any big decisions. For example, I know a lot about diamonds now.

The Anglican wedding is out, as we want a civil ceremony.

The Scottish rules seem quite different to England and Wales, and very badly explained on the GRO Scotland website. You can apply entirely by post, but it seems like you have to apply a month or so earlier.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

No, it is not lying to fail to mention a wedding on your itinerary any more than it would be lying to fail to mention a planned visit to a public restroom. Any truthful answer is truthful. I recommend a more generic truthful answer than mentioning one's own wedding. You are simply out of your element and over-reacting. Yes, I'm harsh with people who give bad information to people looking for the truth.

Any visitor faces the possibility of refusal. It is just as legal to enter the USA with the intention of marrying a US Citizen and then leave to pursue a spouse visa as it is to enter with the intention of attending a football game, buying a burger and a brew and then leaving. Both are "pleasure" trips. Both are "holiday/vacation" trips. Both are "visits". Pleasure, holiday, vacation and visiting are truthful generic answers used thousands of times every day when asked for the purpose of a visit to the USA. Picking any one of those answers when planning to do each and every one of them PLUS getting married or NOT getting married is TRUE and legal. Take it to the bank.

I seriously agree with pushbrk.

[grrrrreat 109]

I seriously agree with pushbrk.

Seconded.

[lynndy38 64]

Hi,

Im currently debating the same....whats easier/faster way to get married to my US fiance.

The UK 7 day head on pillow then 14 day notice put us off due to the same reasons....work commitments anyway have you thought about getting married in Scotland? Its much more relaxed and your fiance could do much of the paper work online from the States,theres no residency needed.....you dont both have to appear in person to give notice,you will require a visit to marry visa though.

Im only just looking into this.......but so far it looks legal and feasable!!!!

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/getting-married-in-scotland/i-want-to-get-married-in-scotland-how-do-i-go-about-it.html