Best and Worst Run States in America

[slim 1,533]

every other state that has a union hall in regards to a skilled trade. Unless you have a better way of getting skilled tradesmen employed in their field to stay working when the work is iffy at best and still get those guys to build whatever when the work is there then go for it.

There is a way. It's called pay them for the jobs they do and let them figure out how to budget for the rest of the year while they're not working. You've said it yourself, several times throughout this thread, it's expected that you won't be working for part of the year. Then you point out you earn plenty of money to survive on but take the "free money" because it's available.

Why can't we just cut out that free money? You'd still have plenty to survive on, wouldn't you? I mean, come on. You make more working 1/2 the year than most people working all year. Why can't you make it on what you earn? Why do you need other peoples' money too?

The reason skilled trades get paid so well is not because of their high education and experience levels. (Remember, we're talking about many guys who couldn't pass all their high school classes and opted instead for vocational schools and shop class.) It's not because they do "hard jobs" outside in sh!tty weather. (Mexicans will do that for pennies on the dollar.) They get paid so well because, more often than not, the job they're working on is regulated by the government and MUST go to a certain company with certain certifications. That's also typically run through a union and before you know it, you have government regulations awarding overpriced contracts to, surprise surprise, the highest campaign contributors.

The reason you - and those like you - get paid so well AND GET FREE MONEY too is because you employ politicians (where do you think those union dues go?) to lobby other politicians so government gets bigger and all of you can take more of OUR money.

You are part of the reason I have to pay more taxes. Shame on you. For a guy who talks with all the bravado of knife fights and being tough, not being a p*ssy, etc., it sure is funny that you don't mind PAYING someone else to do your dirty work for you.

At least the welfare mom doesn't claim she earned it.

Welfare doesn't work in order to collect

Crunch the numbers. Post some statistics. What are you collecting each week compared to what you've paid out in taxes? I'm not an accountant, but I'm pretty sure you're drawing more than you've paid.

A union construction worker gets laid off, so you expect that guy to get a minimum wage job until work picks back up correct?

Nope. I expect him to use the money he's earned so far in the year to pay his expenses while he's not working.

Was it a big surprise that he didn't have work in the winter? Did he not know there'd be no jobs when the weather was #######? How can his brother who works in the office for $50,000/year seem to make ends meet while he can't do it after making $50,000 in six months?

Iv'e been in this game for well over twenty years now and I know the rules.

Still wanna say you're better than the welfare moms?

you get caught working a related job that's non union you are black balled from the union with no questions asked.

And it's not a racket how?

Sounds like working for the mob.

Because it is.

It is. And they support Democrats.

Which is the funniest thing of all because Democrats don't like businesses. Without business, unions can't get money!

I prefer freedom.

Then you can't support unions. Workers right to strike, work within the company for change. Absolutely. But, political influence in Washington that results in kick-backs on the state and local level? Absolutely not.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

We have to hit "9" for no, fat fingers caused too many errors especially since most of the claims get called in on cell phones with tiny little buttons while the guys are sitting on the beach.

Availability in Vermont has been established as "within 48 hours" So you can be pretty much anywhere.

I swear I am going to take them up on a volutarily layoff one of these years, but they always find work for me to do preparing for next year, finishing up this year. I am not union, I am a "suit" (even though I have no suit) so I am doing things like proposals and such all winter. Paper pushing of one sort or another. I did get to run up to Ottawa yesterday for a meeting so that wasn't bad. Truthfully, the only reason I don't is because Alla and Pasha have been in school. Pasha is still in high school. But when he graduates and gets off to college....we will go south for long periods.

If we take a voluntarily layoff here we have to wait 6 weeks before we get our first check. In Washington state you don't get unemployment for anything other than a layoff or you got hosed some how unjustly and fired.

If we want time off, we just ask for a layoff and that's that. We don't call it "voluntary" just "layoff" so there's no extra wait for your money. Two weeks later we start collecting our unemployment money. Like if I want to be gone for a few months...usually Europe, I just say give me a layoff and that's that. I call in and set up my unemployment, direct deposit, etc... and then I call in every two weeks from Belarus or wherever. Now the good thing with working on the slope is your usual maintenance hitches up there are two weeks on, and two weeks off. So if you give someone your two weeks of work you can get six weeks off to do whatever. That's what I did when I went over there to get married. That comes in handy also.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Why_Me

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

If we take a voluntarily layoff here we have to wait 6 weeks before we get our first check. In Washington state you don't get unemployment for anything other than a layoff or you got hosed some how unjustly and fired.

If we want time off, we just ask for a layoff and that's that. Two weeks later we start collecting our unemployment money. Like if I want to be gone for a few months...usually Europe, I just say give me a layoff and that's that. I call in and set up my unemployment, direct deposit, etc... and then I call in every two weeks from Belarus or wherever. Now the good thing with working on the slope is your usual maintenance hitches up there are two weeks on, and two weeks off. So if you give someone your two weeks of work you can get six weeks off to do whatever. That's what I did when I went over there to get married. That comes in handy also.

That's what I meant. Because I am non union I am not restricted in what I can do (except union work) so they can keep me busy all winter doing misc administrative BS and I only work 25 hours per week anyway and I am salaried (plus bonus) so there is not much "less" for me to do anyway, even when I am working.

I can do most of that work from home, so it is really not like working anyway.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[slim 1,533]

if I want to be gone for a few months...usually Europe, I just say give me a layoff and that's that. I call in and set up my unemployment, direct deposit, etc... and then I call in every two weeks from Belarus or wherever.

Welfare moms would be proud!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

T

Which is the funniest thing of all because Democrats don't like businesses. Without business, unions can't get money!

Then you can't support unions. Workers right to strike, work within the company for change. Absolutely. But, political influence in Washington that results in kick-backs on the state and local level? Absolutely not.

I am not a union supporter, but they are a fact of life and I have been discussing facts, not opinions. I work with unions every day and labor laws and unemployment and workman's comp. It is what it is, I just deal with it. At least this is a right to work to state and the tradesmen are union by choice, which I have no problem with and if ALL union members were members by choice I would never say a bad word about unions. The company I work for chooses to use union labor because it has been their experience that the tradesman are better trained. We can ut a call into the union for 3 plumbers or 6 framers, or 4 electricians and we get guys that know that codes, know their job. That is true enough. Not that non-union tradesmen don't know their jobs. Most do. But it is never a question with union tradesmen. Anyway it is not my decision to make and it is not my company. I get a salary and no one is holding a charity sale for the owners, so I guess we are all happy.

But it has been the liberals here that have spoken out the most against Kip who is merely doing what all the other people that support unions must be in favor of, unless someone actually uses it, then they are appalled at what liberals have imposed. Can you imagine it? Funny stuff.

Unemployment is NOT welfare and nothing Kip has written here would be "fraud" That IS how it works and if someone does not like that, then they should contact their legislators.

the system itself encourages this, in case you have not figured it out. It pays them MORE than they can make in temporary jobs and they ARE tradesmen, that IS their job. I mean, c'mon Slim, are YOU going to get out of bed at 4am, shovel snow, drive over dangerous roads to a part time or temp job that pays you $400 per week when you can get $450 sleeping late? Be serious. Sure, if you work you CAN make more, up to about $600 per week (salary and UI benefit total) and then you lose all the UI benefit. So are you going to do all this for an extra $150 per week? Maybe. Some do. I would but i have kids to feed and a house to pay for. If I were single or had noi kids and my wife worked... do you not see why this happens?

You want to end unemployment? End unemployment payments! But who argues against that?

[Ban Hammer 14,619]

Congratulations, you found an inconsequential detail to respond to thus avoiding the need to respond to what was obviously the larger point

You still got it!

it's not every day you make such a glaring error like that.

[slim 1,533]

I mean, c'mon Slim, are YOU going to get out of bed at 4am, shovel snow, drive over dangerous roads to a part time or temp job that pays you $400 per week when you can get $450 sleeping late? Be serious. Sure, if you work you CAN make more, up to about $600 per week (salary and UI benefit total) and then you lose all the UI benefit. So are you going to do all this for an extra $150 per week? Maybe. Some do. I would but i have kids to feed and a house to pay for. If I were single or had noi kids and my wife worked... do you not see why this happens?

Anyone who can take advantage of the system will. I'm not knocking anyone for doing what they're legally allowed to do. What I'm knocking is how anyone can look down their nose at someone else for taking free money and then they take free money themselves.

The system is what it is. But instead of "if you can't beat them, join them" why not simply "beat them."? In order for that to happen, it has to start at home. You can't say someone else is the problem when you yourself are a part of that system.

You also can't tell me tradesmen couldn't make it on their part-year pay. They can. They CHOOSE to be lazy the rest of the year because they can be. If they had a little more self-respect they'd get up off their lazy butts and flip burgers. Or, they'd realize they only work part of the year and start budgeting for the rest of the year they're off.

You want to end unemployment? End unemployment payments! But who argues against that?

The same folks who set up this failing system in the first place. "But we have to save everyone!"

What people don't realize is the system itself is failing and it's going to fall down around us.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

There is a way. It's called pay them for the jobs they do and let them figure out how to budget for the rest of the year while they're not working. You've said it yourself, several times throughout this thread, it's expected that you won't be working for part of the year. Then you point out you earn plenty of money to survive on but take the "free money" because it's available.

Why can't we just cut out that free money? You'd still have plenty to survive on, wouldn't you? I mean, come on. You make more working 1/2 the year than most people working all year. Why can't you make it on what you earn? Why do you need other peoples' money too?

The reason skilled trades get paid so well is not because of their high education and experience levels. (Remember, we're talking about many guys who couldn't pass all their high school classes and opted instead for vocational schools and shop class.) It's not because they do "hard jobs" outside in sh!tty weather. (Mexicans will do that for pennies on the dollar.) They get paid so well because, more often than not, the job they're working on is regulated by the government and MUST go to a certain company with certain certifications. That's also typically run through a union and before you know it, you have government regulations awarding overpriced contracts to, surprise surprise, the highest campaign contributors.

The reason you - and those like you - get paid so well AND GET FREE MONEY too is because you employ politicians (where do you think those union dues go?) to lobby other politicians so government gets bigger and all of you can take more of OUR money.

You are part of the reason I have to pay more taxes. Shame on you. For a guy who talks with all the bravado of knife fights and being tough, not being a p*ssy, etc., it sure is funny that you don't mind PAYING someone else to do your dirty work for you.

At least the welfare mom doesn't claim she earned it.

As far as cutting the skilled trades off from unemployment...that might be doable if they raised our pay another $12 - $15 an hour but it would have to be voted on only after the contractors agree to it. Not sure if it would pass but it's something to think about. Then again it's going to cost someone more money to get whatever built and/or maintained. If you don't pay us our money for what our time and skill is worth then you have the option to get unskilled labor and/or a rat outfit to do it for you. Chances are though they will mess it up and it will take a lot longer to do the job. In this country you get what you pay for. You want to drive on nice bridges, pump gas into your car, etc.... then you pay for it one way or another.

I have no idea what welfare moms pay into the system so I can't quote you any numbers there but I'm sure they have those statistics somewhere on the net.

Crunch the numbers. Post some statistics. What are you collecting each week compared to what you've paid out in taxes? I'm not an accountant, but I'm pretty sure you're drawing more than you've paid.

I have no idea of I have drawn out more than I have paid into, I never check on that stuff. But I do know that I want my money either on the paycheck or in unemployment when the work runs dry. Give me an extra $15 an hour and I will gladly forfeit my unemployment. No extra money on my check, no deal. Again if you don't make it right one way or another you get no gas for your car, no bridges for yoru roads ...well no roads period, no high rises, etc... so you better make it right with me is my opinion. I didn't bust my ####### for nothing and I want my money. If you can find someone that will do as quality work as the skilled tradesmen and who is willing to forfeit his unemployment and for less money per hour then be my guest, but I can tell you right now it's not going to happen. But good luck on that one anyways.

Nope. I expect him to use the money he's earned so far in the year to pay his expenses while he's not working.

Was it a big surprise that he didn't have work in the winter? Did he not know there'd be no jobs when the weather was #######? How can his brother who works in the office for $50,000/year seem to make ends meet while he can't do it after making $50,000 in six months?

Sign up for the an apprenticeship and chances are you will do better than $50,000 in six months time when you journey out and get enough hours in said six months. Those listings are in the yellow pages under "unions". Look for electricians, pipe fitters and sprinkler fitters for the best money but plan on doing a five year apprenticeship while getting treated like ####### from the journeyman (it's all part of the game) and don't forget that if you miss two classes in a years time, or two days of work in a 12 month span during that apprenticeship you had better have a doctors excuse or your out the door and it's all for naught.

Still wanna say you're better than the welfare moms?

So again how much do welfare moms pay into the system, and what services do they offer when they are working? Is their work seasonal and is it in the skilled construction trades? In other words what do they offer?

And it's not a racket how?

Cut your unions throat and see how long you last. It's the union that keeps us going and if one person breaks that code of honor than they pretty much deserved what they get. You were in he Air Force right? Jump ship to the other side and see what the Air Force has to say about that. Last time I checked they shoot traitors. So we both know the score on that one. If someone wants to work a rat job and take bread from brother union members that's fine and dandy as long as they are willing to pay the price. Everyone is told the rules before the join and if someone wants to break those rules again it's on them. It's what rules were made for...to be obeyed and food on the table and a roof over someones head is about as big as it gets, so no breaks for those who cross the line. Take it or leave it.

Even different trades cross each others boundaries as far as work duties go and that's a big no no. My dad had the Alaska Pipeline shut down for about two hours when the company had a laborer do pipe fitters work by turning a pipe wrench once an hour to run a pig through the line. It's pipe fitters work by contract and if you give up and inch, they will take a mile. The company had to have another pipe fitter flown down from Fairbanks to run that pig through the lines, but until they got one there it was no oil. The company learned a lesson on that one and someone lost their job for trying to cut corners. When you make billions you don't try and save nickels and dimes by screwing over your employee's and that's what they tried to do.

Because it is.

No doubt some unions are mob related, not all but some. We have no mob connections in any of the locals up here that I know of and seeing how I know most of the former and/or current BA's for a half dozen trades up here I'm sure I would have heard something by now. The Teamsters up here did have ties with the West Coast families but that's been taken care of sine the late 80's...they cleaned house and started over again when they saw their pensions were being used for illegal purposes. In house cleaning done by the local's own members.

Which is the funniest thing of all because Democrats don't like businesses. Without business, unions can't get money!

Although most Dems are pro union, a lot of Repubs are also, you just don't read about it as often. Here in Alaska we probably have more Repubs we support than we do Dems...although I'm sure we are the exception to that rule. Everyone these days have lobbyist or so it seems.

Then you can't support unions. Workers right to strike, work within the company for change. Absolutely. But, political influence in Washington that results in kick-backs on the state and local level? Absolutely not.

Strikes are only done when other measures don't seem to work. Kick backs are bad also but it happens a lot and not just with the unions. Oil companies here have been busted for bribing politicians god only knows how many times along with trying to fix elections. Big oil makes the unions pale in comparison in regards to kick backs up here.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Anyone who can take advantage of the system will. I'm not knocking anyone for doing what they're legally allowed to do. What I'm knocking is how anyone can look down their nose at someone else for taking free money and then they take free money themselves.

The system is what it is. But instead of "if you can't beat them, join them" why not simply "beat them."? In order for that to happen, it has to start at home. You can't say someone else is the problem when you yourself are a part of that system.

You also can't tell me tradesmen couldn't make it on their part-year pay. They can. They CHOOSE to be lazy the rest of the year because they can be. If they had a little more self-respect they'd get up off their lazy butts and flip burgers. Or, they'd realize they only work part of the year and start budgeting for the rest of the year they're off.

We're lazy eh? lol. Then you get your a$$ and get out there in -50 temps with the wind blowing making it close to -100 and make a weld on corroded pipe with nothing more than an 8x8 plastic hooch up on scaffolding in the middle of the tundra with nothing more for light than the headlamps on your hard hat for the fact a gas ran power plant cant be used for the gas in the surrounding area. And make sure you get that fit and weld done right the first time because chances are it's going to be x rayed afterwards and two bad fits and/or two bad welds will get you a ticket out of there along with a message that says something like; "don't plan on coming back". But that's not your biggest worry when welding on that line, but big worry is if the guys put blinds on the right line and that the controller turned off said line. If not your welding on a live line and if it's a gas line your going to be blown into so many pieces they won't even attempt to put you back together again. That's why they only have two guys up on the scaffolding working on those lines for the fact it's only two lives lost if the line blows. It doesn't happen near as much as it used to with the new safety precautions in place up there these days and they are there for the fact guys used to buy the farm up there more often than was considered acceptable by the government and the unions not to mention the insurance companies. Don't forget that if you can get your hands on a rolligon and it's a must do job then your going to be packing in scaffolding on your back. We have physicals every year along with fit test for our breathing mask. The lazy ones are the ones who can't cut it, and we get those up there now and then. Guys from the lower 48 who can't handle the weather and working conditions. Until you do that job you are talking out your ####### about being lazy.

Iron Workers in the lower 48 have it just as tough imo. They break their ####### hundreds of feet above the ground and when they go around column they have to untie off in order to get around said column. No tie off and some of those columns are four feet in diameter all while walking a piece of iron that's 6" wide at best. Take off your gloves and wipe the sweat off your hands when you do this and make sure you don't look down are chances are your going to be nothing more than a blood splat on the street down below.

I have no idea what you do for work as I have never asked and you have never offered to say. But until you do the work I can't see how you can give an honest opinion. I don't fly airplanes and I'm not about to say how easy a commercial pilots job is or isn't.

The same folks who set up this failing system in the first place. "But we have to save everyone!"

What people don't realize is the system itself is failing and it's going to fall down around us.

Not sure how the system is failing in regards to us collecting unemployment when our work runs out. Either give us more money on our paychecks and cut out our unemployment or don't complain. Either way we want our money. Now if you want to fly up here and do the work yourself then have at it. In fact I would gladly give you a few phone numbers to hook up a job on the slope...and non union job at that. Remember if your going to be up there for a min of three weeks at a time and then you can fly back home. And if you miss your connecting flight due to bad weather oh well...it happens all the time. And if a polar bear tries to mount you from behind for the fact whoever had bear watch wasn't paying attention...just let the bear have his way. You won't be considered gay if nobody knows about it.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Why_Me

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

it's not every day you make such a glaring error like that.

My thoughts exactly but then I felt no need to respond at all.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Anyone who can take advantage of the system will. I'm not knocking anyone for doing what they're legally allowed to do. What I'm knocking is how anyone can look down their nose at someone else for taking free money and then they take free money themselves.

The system is what it is. But instead of "if you can't beat them, join them" why not simply "beat them."? In order for that to happen, it has to start at home. You can't say someone else is the problem when you yourself are a part of that system.

You also can't tell me tradesmen couldn't make it on their part-year pay. They can. They CHOOSE to be lazy the rest of the year because they can be. If they had a little more self-respect they'd get up off their lazy butts and flip burgers. Or, they'd realize they only work part of the year and start budgeting for the rest of the year they're off.

The same folks who set up this failing system in the first place. "But we have to save everyone!"

What people don't realize is the system itself is failing and it's going to fall down around us.

Ironically it is the liberals that support this sytem and then complain loudest when someone uses it. I haven't stated an opinion and personally I have not collected unemployment.

The people here complaining about Kip will do nothing to change it. They will support politicians that further it.

I know some of the men on our crews also work during the off season at unrelated jobs, because they are allowed to make some money and still get unemployment so they make more that way. The ones that cannot survive on $450 per week. Some go south and party all winter and even pick up odd jobs here and there for cash. About 30% of them work all winter on inside construction work. We DO have work all winter, just not so much.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Ironically it is the liberals that support this sytem and then complain loudest when someone uses it. I haven't stated an opinion and personally I have not collected unemployment.

The people here complaining about Kip will do nothing to change it. They will support politicians that further it.

I know some of the men on our crews also work during the off season at unrelated jobs, because they are allowed to make some money and still get unemployment so they make more that way. The ones that cannot survive on $450 per week. Some go south and party all winter and even pick up odd jobs here and there for cash. About 30% of them work all winter on inside construction work. We DO have work all winter, just not so much.

Mexico and the Philippine were the two big hits up here for the winter with Thailand after that for the fact they are warm and most of all they are cheap. Some guys that are really hurting will travel out by putting their book in another hall if they have the work, Iv'e done that a few times...Oregon, Washington, Idaho and the Spokane locals working for less wages but I was hurting for the money big time. A few of those jobs I went in on a hotel room with two or three guys and we would flip for the bed and losers slept in a sleeping bag on the floor. It's a cheap way to save on your Per Diem (travel pay) by splitting the cost. A lot of guys like the ones in North Dakota sleep in campers, travel trailers, etc.. for the fact there is nothing left to rent. Housing there is zero right now there's so many guys working that gas field atm. It's tough if you are married and/or have a family. Your gone for a few months at a time. My dad and uncles have worked jobs in Japan, Ireland, and Austria and a few jobs back east. The furthest Iv'e went so far to work is Sakhalin Island, Russia. You were in pretty much the same boat I'm guessing when you ran that construction job in Ukraine.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I've never met a person that is getting UI and not celebrated the news that they won't have to work another day for the maximum time allowed + get a government check.

I've got a cousin who celebrated her layoff, got over $500 every 2 weeks, and used it to essentially get paid to go to nursing school.

I've got another relative who got it and immediately went on the hunt for an under the table job. She is a full time nanny getting paid in cash and raking in checks from the government.

That is the first sign that there is something wrong with UI if the people getting it:

A: Celebrate the news

B: Always go for the maximum time allowed

C: Never look for a job to end the free money

D: If they look for a job, it is under the table work so they can double dip

Actually I've had the opposite experience. Almost all the people I know who have been laid off were looking for work immediately. Most of them have kids and houses. It's not a paid vacation for them. It's a source of great anxiety.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Actually I've had the opposite experience. Almost all the people I know who have been laid off were looking for work immediately. Most of them have kids and houses. It's not a paid vacation for them. It's a source of great anxiety.

Do you think they should be paid more while on unemployment? Raise the maximum benefit?

[Dakine10 5,452]

Do you think they should be paid more while on unemployment? Raise the maximum benefit?

I think your full of #######, and like baiting people. Go bother someone else.