Which Rifle or Gun is Best...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Isn't there a minimum caliber for taking a pig? Any limitations on number?

For Texas:

In Texas, no. They are not classified as game animals and there are no regu;ations on firearms used, no seasons and no bag limits. Wild hogs can be shot on sight at any time of the year and you can kill as many as you want.

Even for deer Texas requires only "any centerfire" rifle or pistol or a shotgun with number 4 shot or greater.

The 17 HMR is not a centerfire but the rules do not apply to wild hogs, only deer

Edited October 5, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Captain Oates 910]

Yes, a well placed 17 HMR round above the nasal cavity, between the eyes. That hog ran about 50 or so yards and down he went, so yes, a small caliber 17 HMR, but that hog was as dead as if he had been shot with a larger caliber rifle.

You could kill a grizzly bear with a 17 if you stick it in his eye, but nobody would recommend it.

Animals demand respect and a clean kill and a rifle that has the power to kill it with a less than perfect shot is the least we can do

If your shot had been slightly off, it would have caused immense suffering

[Captain Oates 910]

In Texas, no. They are not classified as game animals and there are no regu;ations on firearms used, no seasons and no bag limits. Wild hogs can be shot on sight at any time of the year and you can kill as many as you want.

Even for deer Texas requires only "any centerfire" rifle or pistol or a shotgun with number 4 shot or greater.

The 17 HMR is not a centerfire but the rules do not apply to wild hogs, only deer

We are talking basic respect and avoidance of cruelty and a 17 is not appropriate whether there is a law against it or not. There is no law against darting it and then, while it is semi-conscious, poking a pencil up its nose and gouging its brains out, but we wouldn't do that out of basic respect for a living creature would we ? Oh it was Texas - cancel that question.

[Dan and Judy 614]

The best place, assuming you are going to buy new, is from bud's gun shop online. They are the cheapest with good service.

They send it to a local dealer of your choice. The dealer gets you to fill in the Federal form where you claim to be sane and not a mass murderer. As a green card holder I sometimes waited 2 days for clearance but since I became a citizen, they clear it over the phone

State laws make you wait for handguns (often) usually 3 days or until your mother in law has gone home.

Rifles can be instant.

BUDS MARLIN 30-30

I think in most states if you go to a gun show you have a nice selection and you don't have to lie about being sane. If you are a member of a cartel you can apply directly to the ATF. You show your membership card and they expedite your order and give you a 10% discount

[Dan and Judy 614]

####### Cheney's looking for a new heart. I would recommend bullet proof headgear.

Probably another slippery slope here but as long as we're taking out all these terrorists anyway.....................................

[Dan and Judy 614]

Yes pigs of course are very similar to some human beings and their valves can be used in hearts within reason.

That's straying off topic by the way, but I would feel a bit queezy about killing a pig seeing as its pink and has bits which are interchangeable with humans - and they squeal

Can't help but be reminded of that great english novel "Lord of the flies"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We are talking basic respect and avoidance of cruelty and a 17 is not appropriate whether there is a law against it or not. There is no law against darting it and then, while it is semi-conscious, poking a pencil up its nose and gouging its brains out, but we wouldn't do that out of basic respect for a living creature would we ? Oh it was Texas - cancel that question.

Exactly. I do not need a law to tell me what is adequate. I was always perfectly comfortable using adequate firearms for whatever I was doing with a firearm. If I did not have one that was proper, I would buy one that was. That may explain so many of the damn things around here

I also believe that just because you do not do something is no reason not to have a gun for it just in case you do. Hence, the elephant rifle behind the kitchen door. It has kept elephants out of my garden for more than 20 years! Not ONE elphant has trampled my flowrs since I bought that gun! Alla did not belive me that it kept elephants away. After three years here and no elephants...she believes.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Can't help but be reminded of that great english novel "Lord of the flies"

Or the famous words of that other Englishman of famed literature... John "Pondoro" Taylor. He said "It is best to be caught slightly over-gunned than to be trampled to bits by an elephant"

The "Taylor Factor" for calculating a rifle's ability to waylay a beast is still the standard of comparison. The abysmal Taylor factor of the .17 HMR stops being useful at about an overweight woodchuck.

[Captain Oates 910]

Or the famous words of that other Englishman of famed literature... John "Pondoro" Taylor. He said "It is best to be caught slightly over-gunned than to be trampled to bits by an elephant"

The "Taylor Factor" for calculating a rifle's ability to waylay a beast is still the standard of comparison. The abysmal Taylor factor of the .17 HMR stops being useful at about an overweight woodchuck.

I was shooting 30 grain bullets with 26 grains grains of powder out of my 223 yesterday and they were not at all impressive. I then shot 55 grain hornadays with 24.2 grains and they were ace - 4 shots through the same hole at 100 yards.

But even I who is perfect (according to my mother), has been known to produce a flyer which is a couple of inches off. I have seen photos of deer running away with their jaws all shredded and hanging off from a high velocity bullet that missed their brain by a couple of inches - very nasty photos

Much better to use a 270 or 30-30 or 243 with a shoulder shot (through the heart and lungs and major bones)that allows for a couple of inches and still produces a clean kill. If the shooter can't manage that, then by all means use a scatter gun with full choke and tiger slugs

Head shots are great when they work - and sick making when they don't. I don't shoot animals anyway nowadays but if I did, I wouldn't do head shots. I have National Marksman badges and national expert badges from 1967 on - so I am rated a reasonable shot though I don't use iron sights nowadays.

Look at the skull of a mammal and one can see that lots of it is not going to produce a lethal shot - the huge jaws etc. We have even had a gun club member who tried to shoot himself in the head and blew the side of his face off instead - he doesn't look pretty but he didn't kill himself as planned

Shoulder shot or straight on dead center.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Austin Devon

[Leatherneck 693]

Isn't there a minimum caliber for taking a pig? Any limitations on number?

For Texas:

There is no minimum caliber for killing hogs. I was making the point that even a small caliber can be used to take a hog.

If I was planning to hunt hogs I would use a shotgun with 00 buckshot or slugs, or maybe I would use my .30-06, a .243

or my 270.

Guns and calibers are like cars, they are very personal as to what one likes, what feels good them him/her, what ones budget

will allow, the purpose for which the firearm will be used or what will get the job done.

[Leatherneck 693]

You could kill a grizzly bear with a 17 if you stick it in his eye, but nobody would recommend it.

Animals demand respect and a clean kill and a rifle that has the power to kill it with a less than perfect shot is the least we can do

If your shot had been slightly off, it would have caused immense suffering

The particular times I've killed hogs with the 17 HMR and 22 Long rifle were not planned hog hunts. Those were times I was out with my 15 year old nephew checking my father's watermelon crops and the nephew tagged along with the hopes he would get a chance to take at least one of the buzzards having a field-day with the melons.

That was the available firearm at the time and that is what was used. If hog hunting was the plan, then something other than a 17 HMR would be used, I've already stated such. Immense suffering can be caused by any caliber, even a "slightly off" shot from a larger caliber firearm.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Leatherneck

[Captain Oates 910]

The particular times I've killed hogs with the 17 HMR and 22 Long rifle were not planned hog hunts. Those were times I was out with my 15 year old nephew checking my father's watermelon crops and the nephew tagged along with the hopes he would get a chance to take at least one of the buzzards having a field-day with the melons.

That was the available firearm at the time and that is what was used. If hog hunting was the plan, then something other than a 17 HMR would be used, I've already stated such. Immense suffering can be caused by any caliber, even a "slightly off" shot from a larger caliber firearm.

I reckon some self control is necessary if you have a 17 and you see a hog. If you shoot a person center chest with a 308 and you are 2 inches off, they are still very dead but not so with 17. In other words, using 'the available gun' isn't acceptable outside a combat situation. Better to say 'pity' and get it next time. You wouldn't shoot a deer, even at 15 yards, if all you had was a 410 loaded with number 12 shot, and its exactly the same.

I know there are no cruelty regulations on hogs, but many places have a minimum of .240 to shoot even small dear and a piggy can be tougher than that. My 5.65mm AR-15 is too small and illegal for deer so a 17 on a hog ? no that's not respecting the chances of being very cruel when you don't hit within a half inch of your aiming point.

If you committed suicide, would you use a 17 ? and we aren't as tough as hogs.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Austin Devon

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I reckon some self control is necessary if you have a 17 and you see a hog. If you shoot a person center chest with a 308 and you are 2 inches off, they are still very dead but not so with 17. In other words, using 'the available gun' isn't acceptable outside a combat situation. Better to say 'pity' and get it next time. You wouldn't shoot a deer, even at 15 yards, if all you had was a 410 loaded with number 12 shot, and its exactly the same.

I know there are no cruelty regulations on hogs, but many places have a minimum of .240 to shoot even small dear and a piggy can be tougher than that. My 5.65mm AR-15 is too small and illegal for deer so a 17 on a hog ? no that's not respecting the chances of being very cruel when you don't hit within and half inch of your aiming point.

If you committed suicide, would you use a 17 ? and we aren't as tough as hogs.

I have a lifelong friend that used to live on a ranch north of Cloverdale we all frequented for fishing and hunting (and poker). He would always complain, the day he would walk down to the lake to go fishing, he would see one hog after another. By the time he returned with a suitable firearm, the pigs would be gone, but the fish would be practically jumping on the shore.

[Captain Oates 910]

I have a lifelong friend that used to live on a ranch north of Cloverdale we all frequented for fishing and hunting (and poker). He would always complain, the day he would walk down to the lake to go fishing, he would see one hog after another. By the time he returned with a suitable firearm, the pigs would be gone, but the fish would be practically jumping on the shore.

A combined fishing rod (pole) would seem to be the answer.

The Victorians used to have an umbrella that was also a small rifle for protection

Ragamuffins can be shot with any calibre (caliber) and a carefully placed 17 on the entrance to the Khyber can be most effective

My link

Edited October 5, 2011 by Austin Devon

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

BTW: California has this reg:

(a) Except for the provisions of subsections 353(b) through (h), Title 14, CCR, big game (as defined by Section 350, Title 14, CCR) may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles; bow and arrow (see Section 354, Title 14, CCR, for archery equipment regulations); or wheellock, matchlock, flintlock or percussion type, including "in-line" muzzleloading rifles using black powder or equivalent black powder substitute, including pellets, with a single projectile loaded from "projectile" is defined as any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot or other device which is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.

(b) Shotguns capable of holding not more than three shells firing single slugs may be used for the taking of deer, bear and wild pigs. In areas where the discharge of rifles or shotguns with slugs is prohibited by county ordinance, shotguns capable of holding not more than three shells firing size 0 or 00 buckshot may be used for the taking of deer only.

© Pistols and revolvers using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles may be used to take deer, bear, and wild pigs.

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/current/mammalregs.aspx#353

Edited October 5, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv