Tough Immigration Controls Save Denmark $10 Billion in 10 Years

[Sofiyya 1,687]

For me it's the argument that you get from some people that Islam is some barbaric religion that has held back progress in the middle-east. It's an argument which overlooks the fact that the middle-eastern countries in the middle ages (like Persia) were more advanced in almost every way than the nations of Europe. Since then - the region has experienced more or less continual conquest, from within and without.

The Muslim Moors actually improved Spain architecturally and elevated philosophy, learning and religious studies across the board. When the Christians expelled them from Southern Spain, along with the Jews, it was the Muslims that took the Jews under their auspices for protection.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The Muslim Moors actually improved Spain architecturally and elevated philosophy, learning and religious studies across the board. When the Christians expelled them from Southern Spain, along with the Jews, it was the Muslims that took the Jews under their auspices for protection.

But somewhere in between then and now the script flipped. The religion didn't evolutionize and it held back the people/cultures.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

But somewhere in between then and now the script flipped. The religion didn't evolutionize and it held back the people/cultures.

If what you refer to as "the religion" is Christianity, yes, that is true.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Muslim Moors actually improved Spain architecturally and elevated philosophy, learning and religious studies across the board. When the Christians expelled them from Southern Spain, along with the Jews, it was the Muslims that took the Jews under their auspices for protection.

They did, but a few changes of Monarch/regime put paid to that in the end. Not to mention the fact that around the same time other Islamic states were openly persecuting and murdering Jews. Noone had clean hands back then.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If what you refer to as "the religion" is Christianity, yes, that is true.

Some branches of the Christian church were slow to evolutionize....some slower than others. But if you look at space flight, lunar landing, medical achievements, atomic science,...even the more simplistic things like the invention of telephones and clothes washers and dryers, etc.. well it's not a hard call on this now is it.

[Zero Sum 305]

The Muslim Moors actually improved Spain architecturally and elevated philosophy, learning and religious studies across the board. When the Christians expelled them from Southern Spain, along with the Jews, it was the Muslims that took the Jews under their auspices for protection.

And enriched the Spanish language too. That must rile up racist Spaniards when they go to sleep on their Al-mohadas every night.

But somewhere in between then and now the script flipped. The religion didn't evolutionize and it held back the people/cultures.

Evolve...

Some branches of the Christian church were slow to evolutionize....some slower than others. But if you look at space flight, lunar landing, medical achievements, atomic science,...even the more simplistic things like the invention of telephones and clothes washers and dryers, etc.. well it's not a hard call on this now is it.

evolve...

They did, but a few changes of Monarch/regime put paid to that in the end. Not to mention the fact that around the same time other Islamic states were openly persecuting and murdering Jews. Noone had clean hands back then.

Crapping and crapping.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Mongols, Huns, Vandals, Saracens, Moors, who else?

Celts, Scots, Normans, Franks, Saxons...

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Some branches of the Christian church were slow to evolutionize....some slower than others. But if you look at space flight, lunar landing, medical achievements, atomic science,...even the more simplistic things like the invention of telephones and clothes washers and dryers, etc.. well it's not a hard call on this now is it.

You're attributing these things to Christianity?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You're attributing these things to Christianity?

Nope..at least not in the sense your inferring to. It's when a religion stays out of the way of progress / science that it does the most good imo. Less religious wing nuts means a better chance for a society to evolve and progress with the times.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Nope..at least not in the sense your inferring to. It's when a religion stays out of the way of progress / science that it does the most good imo. Less religious wing nuts means a better chance for a society to evolve and progress with the times.

Well, unbeknownst to you, much of that progress was fostered by Muslims who gave the world great advances in science, mathematics, philosophy, astronomy, engineering, medicine, art, architecture and much more. The first word of the Quran revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was "Read!", and, throughout the teachings of the faith is the directive to learn and to teach. We are directed to go in quest of knowledge even unto China and to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave.

The interesting thing about each of these discussions is the argument by the less learned that the Europeans just kind of vacationed in the places they exploited, had no adverse influence on the populations, and bear no responsibility for the ills that trailed behind them. On the other hand, the non-White barbarians "invading" Europe had a malicious effect that lingers to this day as a warning about how Europe must remain White and Chrisitan to be safe and progressive.

Revisionist history is alive and well on this board.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And enriched the Spanish language too. That must rile up racist Spaniards when they go to sleep on their Al-mohadas every night.

And, the English language. Few English speakers are aware of how many Arabic words they use in every day conversation.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Well, unbeknownst to you, much of that progress was fostered by Muslims who gave the world great advances in science, mathematics, philosophy, astronomy, engineering, medicine, art, architecture and much more. The first word of the Quran revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was "Read!", and, throughout the teachings of the faith is the directive to learn and to teach. We are directed to go in quest of knowledge even unto China and to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave.

The interesting thing about each of these discussions is the argument by the less learned that the Europeans just kind of vacationed in the places they exploited, had no adverse influence on the populations, and bear no responsibility for the ills that trailed behind them. On the other hand, the non-White barbarians "invading" Europe had a malicious effect that lingers to this day as a warning about how Europe must remain White and Chrisitan to be safe and progressive.

Revisionist history is alive and well on this board.

What happened or should I say didn't happen in the last few hundred years with the Muslim peoples? For a society to progress, it has to keep on evolving in a forward direction. It can't just come up with things like algebra and then stop. It goes back to religion and culture.

Take the Catholic Church for example. It kept Europeans back for century's. It hurt progress, not helped. But Europeans put a kabash on that one in with something called the Protestant Reformation and The Hundred Years War.

Myself...I would be happy if there were no religion in the world. I don't need a make believe fairy tale to keep me going. But it's when a culture of people that are held back by religion..values...who knows what....well then that's where you run into problems.

Some people...like some Europeans like to advance forward...they like secular, they like science, they dislike the Church involving itself in every aspect of life. Some people like progression, and others...well they stopped progressing somewhere back in.....

[Zero Sum 305]

Yet another brilliant post. Where do you find the time to put so much thought into your post on here? Like this post of yours in the quote, I always find them intelligent and most of all informative.

TY, Champ. It means a lot to me that you take time from your schedule to inform me of these things.

And, the English language. Few English speakers are aware of how many Arabic words they use in every day conversation.

Don't upset us anymore, please!

What happened or should I say didn't happen in the last few hundred years with the Muslim peoples? For a society to progress, it has to keep on evolving in a forward direction. It can't just come up with things like algebra and then stop. It goes back to religion and culture.

Take the Catholic Church for example. It kept Europeans back for century's. It hurt progress, not helped. But Europeans put a kabash on that one in with something called the Protestant Reformation and The Hundred Years War.

Myself...I would be happy if there were no religion in the world. I don't need a make believe fairy tale to keep me going. But it's when a culture of people that are held back by religion..values...who knows what....well then that's where you run into problems.

Some people...like some Europeans like to advance forward...they like secular, they like science, they dislike the Church involving itself in every aspect of life. Some people like progression, and others...well they stopped progressing somewhere back in.....

That's the first time I've heard the Reformation being credited for something already assigned to the Enlightenment.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

TY, Champ. It means a lot to me that you take time from your schedule to inform me of these things.

Don't upset us anymore, please!

That's the first time I've heard the Reformation being credited for something already assigned to the Enlightenment.

Read up on Martin Luther. He wasn't someone who thought reading was meant only for priest and royalty. The Reformation had a significant impact on how science was perceived by the church.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What happened or should I say didn't happen in the last few hundred years with the Muslim peoples? For a society to progress, it has to keep on evolving in a forward direction. It can't just come up with things like algebra and then stop. It goes back to religion and culture.

Take the Catholic Church for example. It kept Europeans back for century's. It hurt progress, not helped. But Europeans put a kabash on that one in with something called the Protestant Reformation and The Hundred Years War.

Myself...I would be happy if there were no religion in the world. I don't need a make believe fairy tale to keep me going. But it's when a culture of people that are held back by religion..values...who knows what....well then that's where you run into problems.

Some people...like some Europeans like to advance forward...they like secular, they like science, they dislike the Church involving itself in every aspect of life. Some people like progression, and others...well they stopped progressing somewhere back in.....

It's difficult to compete with a fantasy. Islam has not held back progress for Muslims and it is no one's fault but your own that you've embraced that idea.

Tying this to the topic, it's a stretch to attribute to Jesus to the racism, xenophobia and denial about its own history of exploitation that allows European extremists to believe that there is a justification for a White Christian Europe. Sounds to me as though religion is starting to affect the brains of separatists, but not in a good way.