John Kerry: ‘This is the Tea Party Downgrade’

[scandal 951]

What kind of IDIOTS do not want revenues to go up to pay down this debt (well, make our deficits smaller)? It's like a family that has a large credit card debt refusing a job promotion.

Today is a topsy-turvy day. Look at the markets, that'll tell you what kind of day it is.

It's so topsy turvy I'm actually about to defend a smidgin of Tea Party logic

In your analogy to the family refusing the job promotion, the presumption is that any promotion is good and any accompanying salary increase is double-plus good, right? Who in their right mind says no to a raise??

Well, consider for a moment that our salaried worker is employed by a small family owned business. Maybe he's making 80K/year and they've offered him a generous 10% increase. That extra 8K also comes with additional costs: higher employer-paid SS and Medicare, perhaps more matching 401K payments, so the real cost to the employer is around 10K. Now, this is a struggling little business where every cent of revenue counts. Our hero happens to be the accountant there, and knows the books better than anyone. He can see that pulling 10K out of the ledger is going to hit the marketing department, and may have a depressive effect on sales next year. In a rare case of long-term planning he volunteers to forgo the increase so that the company can invest it in operations and marketing, expand, be even more profitable, and he can reap an even greater increase in the years to come.

In fact ... many self-employed business people make such decisions all the time. They draw intentionally small salaries to plow more revenues back into their operations.

That's roughly the logic behind governments taking less tax revenues and leaving more of it in the hands of the private sector to reinvest, which is conservative supply side dogma.

There is a basic logic to this, it's not all crazy talk.

The trouble is when you take any reasonable idea to an unyielding extreme, such as Grover Norquist lalaland of pledging to never ever raise no tax no how no way, that you end up with intransigent people who are simply unable to realize they've pushed an idea further than it can reasonably stretch. Moderation in all things, and in all things moderation. Including budget discussions.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, consider for a moment that our salaried worker is employed by a small family owned business. Maybe he's making 80K/year and they've offered him a generous 10% increase. That extra 8K also comes with additional costs: higher employer-paid SS and Medicare, perhaps more matching 401K payments, so the real cost to the employer is around 10K. Now, this is a struggling little business where every cent of revenue counts. Our hero happens to be the accountant there, and knows the books better than anyone. He can see that pulling 10K out of the ledger is going to hit the marketing department, and may have a depressive effect on sales next year. In a rare case of long-term planning he volunteers to forgo the increase so that the company can invest it in operations and marketing, expand, be even more profitable, and he can reap an even greater increase in the years to come.

With the exception of the foregone increase, none of this is actually happening. Hasn't happened for the last decade. Hasn't happened when we doubled down on the strategy. To still sit there and think that now all of a sudden if you just triple down on it, it will all come to fruition is borderline insanity. And that, my friend, is the Tea Party for you.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[luckytxn 2,263]

Friggin morons. All it would have taken was to cut spending. Just cut the spending down to where the revenue was and no deficit. If that would have happened then the market would be zooming along. The world would be rejoicing. Businesses would be looking at future hiring and spending.

Instead we had a moronic idiot that wanted to try something that has always failed in history and try to spend our way out of an economic downfall. And the only thing idiots can say is to raise taxes which is also the last thing needed right now. Might as well just put a bullet in the head of the gasping economy. Roll back the Federal government to how far back to have a balanced budget. Very simple. If this moron as president had done this he would be elevated as a savior and praised.

Friggin morons. All it would have taken was to cut spending. Just cut the spending down to where the revenue was and no deficit. If that would have happened then the market would be zooming along. The world would be rejoicing. Businesses would be looking at future hiring and spending.

Instead we had a moronic idiot that wanted to try something that has always failed in history and try to spend our way out of an economic downfall. And the only thing idiots can say is to raise taxes which is also the last thing needed right now. Might as well just put a bullet in the head of the gasping economy. Roll back the Federal government to how far back to have a balanced budget. Very simple. If this moron as president had done this he would be elevated as a savior and praised.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Yes, the economy already went to hell - that started back in 2007/2008. We're all aware of that.

The dollar already went to hell - it bought EUR 1.08 in Jan 2001 and barely bought EUR 0.75 in Jan 2009 - a staggering 30% decline. It has since declined another 6.5% - not good but not nearly as bad a path as it was on.

Yes, and you can thank a Texan for it!

LBJ was a Texan, not a spoiled frat boy pretending to be one.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Friggin morons. All it would have taken was to cut spending. Just cut the spending down to where the revenue was and no deficit. If that would have happened then the market would be zooming along. The world would be rejoicing. Businesses would be looking at future hiring and spending.

Instead we had a moronic idiot that wanted to try something that has always failed in history and try to spend our way out of an economic downfall. And the only thing idiots can say is to raise taxes which is also the last thing needed right now. Might as well just put a bullet in the head of the gasping economy. Roll back the Federal government to how far back to have a balanced budget. Very simple. If this moron as president had done this he would be elevated as a savior and praised.

Friggin morons. All it would have taken was to cut spending. Just cut the spending down to where the revenue was and no deficit. If that would have happened then the market would be zooming along. The world would be rejoicing. Businesses would be looking at future hiring and spending.

Instead we had a moronic idiot that wanted to try something that has always failed in history and try to spend our way out of an economic downfall. And the only thing idiots can say is to raise taxes which is also the last thing needed right now. Might as well just put a bullet in the head of the gasping economy. Roll back the Federal government to how far back to have a balanced budget. Very simple. If this moron as president had done this he would be elevated as a savior and praised.

What happens when your spending cuts cause a revenue drop in the following years? More cuts?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Today is a topsy-turvy day. Look at the markets, that'll tell you what kind of day it is.

It's so topsy turvy I'm actually about to defend a smidgin of Tea Party logic

In your analogy to the family refusing the job promotion, the presumption is that any promotion is good and any accompanying salary increase is double-plus good, right? Who in their right mind says no to a raise??

Well, consider for a moment that our salaried worker is employed by a small family owned business. Maybe he's making 80K/year and they've offered him a generous 10% increase. That extra 8K also comes with additional costs: higher employer-paid SS and Medicare, perhaps more matching 401K payments, so the real cost to the employer is around 10K. Now, this is a struggling little business where every cent of revenue counts. Our hero happens to be the accountant there, and knows the books better than anyone. He can see that pulling 10K out of the ledger is going to hit the marketing department, and may have a depressive effect on sales next year. In a rare case of long-term planning he volunteers to forgo the increase so that the company can invest it in operations and marketing, expand, be even more profitable, and he can reap an even greater increase in the years to come.

In fact ... many self-employed business people make such decisions all the time. They draw intentionally small salaries to plow more revenues back into their operations.

That's roughly the logic behind governments taking less tax revenues and leaving more of it in the hands of the private sector to reinvest, which is conservative supply side dogma.

There is a basic logic to this, it's not all crazy talk.

The trouble is when you take any reasonable idea to an unyielding extreme, such as Grover Norquist lalaland of pledging to never ever raise no tax no how no way, that you end up with intransigent people who are simply unable to realize they've pushed an idea further than it can reasonably stretch. Moderation in all things, and in all things moderation. Including budget discussions.

Now I remember why I read your posts. :thumbs: :thumbs:Unfortunately altruistic actions are rarely taken, fat cats just line their pockets.

[mawilson 2,133]

What happens when your spending cuts cause a revenue drop in the following years? More cuts?

Yep.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

What happens when your spending cuts cause a revenue drop in the following years? More cuts?

Shouldn't we just shutter the government permanently?

[웃 910]

Here is the Tea Party Plan:

Fire 1 million local, state, and federal workers over the next 2 years.

1/8th of a million (125,000) per quarter over the next 2 years.

Probblum Sawlved?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Here is the Tea Party Plan:

Fire 1 million local, state, and federal workers over the next 2 years.

1/8th of a million (125,000) per quarter over the next 2 years.

Probblum Sawlved?

What is going to happen when all these workers hit the unemployment lines? How will they buy products and purchase services? What about the sectors of the economy that will be hurt when they have 1 million less consumers?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What is going to happen when all these workers hit the unemployment lines? How will they buy products and purchase services? What about the sectors of the economy that will be hurt when they have 1 million less consumers?

They'll lay off people as well. More folk in the unemployment line. Hell, it'll be 1937 all over again.