Learning how to argue

[one...two...tree 2,762]

As already mentioned, men tend to wander off and think for a bit if something bothers them or they feel attacked. There are three main reasons that I can think of: feelings of wanting to hurt the other person physically, feelings of wanting to hurt the other person verbally, feelings of being cornered and needing to escape.

It's usually the last one for me. But yet it's also tied in with the second one. If I get defensive/feel cornered, I can - unless I retreat temporarily - completely go off. I don't like doing that, and make it so that it doesn't happen. Luckily, Sian and I are the same. We BOTH retreat. Therefore, we both take a few minutes to calm down, then we discuss whatever it was rationally.

"Arguing" serves no purpose at all. Women can get pretty vile when they're upset (recent events in the ME/NA trainwreck come to mind), and men tend to have a hard time dealing with/understanding that. We get completely overwhelmed. 'How can my beautiful wife, whom I love more than anything, want to hurt me so badly?'

The worst thing you can do is keep pushing it. Giving it a few minutes ultimately helps both of you.

For a lot of men, the woman leaving IS a very real fear. Just look at the divorce rate in the US and the percentage that are initiated by women and you'll get an idea of why.

With that said, I don't know how Sian or I would react if we had a serious arguement. We've only had little disagreements so far, and that includes the dreaded "Money Discussion". I think we'd both wander off for an hour or two and read a book, then come back and discuss it calmly.

When people are excited with jubilence, they want to shout it out. I'm not sure why so many think that it's bad to shout when your angry. I understand if it becomes abusive, but for me, if I were to bottle it inside and walk off in silence, I'd be asking for a heart attack. Anger is a powerful emotion - If I can yell it out right when it starts boiling then the anger diffuses. My parents yelled but it wasn't often and they were always civil about it - no name calling, no saying the 'D' word. I guess I was lucky to see two people who loved each other express their anger vocally without it ever escalating into anything further.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[JenT 0]

Yodrak, I understand your point, but aren't some things worth fighting for?

Many thing are worth fighting for... not everything is worth fighting about!

Neither my ex, nor David, deserve to be compared to each other, so I will try to frame my response in terms of my own feelings and experience.

My ex was very non-confrontational which had a lot to do with having an alcoholic mother and preferring avoidance to direct communication. It took me a long time to realize this... I, like everyone else, thought we had the 'perfect marriage' because we didn't fight. And rarely even disagreed. Very long story short, that wound up being one of the (many) reasons of the demise of our marriage. When it came to addressing important things, where we really did disagree, we both shut down and shut each other out.

David is quick to show emotion and is not afraid to express his opinions about whatever subject is pertinent at the time (and even about not-so-pertinent subjects ). I have had to learn to respond to him in a constructive way without getting overly emotional myself. We have had our share of misunderstandings (one would THINK that we speak the same language with him being British, but alas, that is not always) and it took me a while to be comfortable accepting that disagreement did not mean disaster for the relationship. With commitment comes trust (or it should) and we trust each other to be able to share our true feelings, regardless of the subject. One thing I learned very early in my life which has served me well is the concept that feelings are never wrong… it's the way they are sometimes expressed that can be the issue.

Edited to add: With my children, I've learned to 'choose my battles' and I know that same theory will apply as we all get used to being a family when David arrives. Some things are NOT worth fighting about.

Jen

Edited September 13, 2006 by JenT

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yodrak, I understand your point, but aren't some things worth fighting for?

Many thing are worth fighting for... not everything is worth fighting about!

Neither my ex, nor David, deserve to be compared to each other, so I will try to frame my response in terms of my own feelings and experience.

My ex was very non-confrontational which had a lot to do with having an alcoholic mother and preferring avoidance to direct communication. It took me a long time to realize this... I, like everyone else, thought we had the 'perfect marriage' because we didn't fight. And rarely even disagreed. Very long story short, that wound up being one of the (many) reasons of the demise of our marriage. When it came to addressing important things, where we really did disagree, we both shut down and shut each other out.

David is quick to show emotion and is not afraid to express his opinions about whatever subject is pertinent at the time (and even about not-so-pertinent subjects ). I have had to learn to respond to him in a constructive way without getting overly emotional myself. We have had our share of misunderstandings (one would THINK that we speak the same language with him being British, but alas, that is not always) and it took me a while to be comfortable accepting that disagreement did not mean disaster for the relationship. With commitment comes trust (or it should) and we trust each other to be able to share our true feelings, regardless of the subject. One thing I learned very early in my life which has served me well is the concept that feelings are never wrong… it's the way they are sometimes expressed that can be the issue.

Edited to add: With my children, I've learned to 'choose my battles' and I know that same theory will apply as we all get used to being a family when David arrives. Some things are NOT worth fighting about.

Jen

[Mrs.J06 4]

Yes, a lot of people retreat when they feel something bad might happen if they don't. In my husband's case I think he is just insecure and afraid of making me mad by saying anything at all. He still compares me to his ex, even though he really makes an effort not to do that. I know it's not that easy after 15 years...

It actually helped some when I told him that even if we disagree on something every once in a while this is never so important that I would doubt our relationship or even consider leaving him because of it!

And like Steven_and_Jinky said, my parents also had a long, very happy marriage but I remember my Mum screaming like a fishwife every once in a while, and us kids just running for cover to wait it out. But in our family we never held a grudge for an extended time frame, which is something I can't handle at all. That was the way things were done in my husband's family. (Silence until eventually something else came up and the issue was "forgotten").

Seems like we are shaped much more by these early childhood experiences than I thought.

[babybunny 2]

O.k., this might be a touchy subject to discuss on a public forum, but some people here seem to be able to give great advice in personal matters, so here's mine:

My husband and I are both very happy in our relationship, we have known each other for three years before we got married and generally get along extremely well.

The only real problem we have in our relationship is that we can't argue! Every time we really start fighting about something my husband just runs away, only to be hunted down by me to discuss things. I'm a strong believer in communication, but I'm the only one communicating when we argue (naked truth: I argue with him and he just falls completely silent).

I asked him many times why that is so and he only tells me that once I get mad at him about something he just feels he'd better "get out of the way" before he does something to make me even more angry. Now, that makes me feel like a yelling b***h and I sure hope I'm not! He even told me once that every time we argue (which doesn't happen all that often) he is scared to death to say something "wrong" and I'll just pack my bags and go back to Germany.

I have never, ever in our entire relationship threated anything like that. He knows perfectly well I'd never just leave him for some stupid reason, we've been through quite a bit together already and I'm not the kind of person to just run away from problems, and he admits that he knows that.

Alright, so what can I do? It doesn't seem to get any better. What am I doing wrong to make him shut up? I have to add that his previous marriage was pretty miserable, he (seriously) wasn't allowed to do anything, got yelled at frequently (that might be one reason, but I'm not her!) and eventuelly he found out that wifey had been cheating on him since over a year already, while still living on his money etc. really ugly. I admire him tremendously for having the courage to start over again after all he's been through...

Any advice how I can help him/us to overcome this? I really like the reconciliations but I'd like to be able to have a "cleaning" arguement every once in a while!

Thanks...

why would you want to start an argument with your husband? thats insane.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes, a lot of people retreat when they feel something bad might happen if they don't. In my husband's case I think he is just insecure and afraid of making me mad by saying anything at all. He still compares me to his ex, even though he really makes an effort not to do that. I know it's not that easy after 15 years...

It actually helped some when I told him that even if we disagree on something every once in a while this is never so important that I would doubt our relationship or even consider leaving him because of it!

And like Steven_and_Jinky said, my parents also had a long, very happy marriage but I remember my Mum screaming like a fishwife every once in a while, and us kids just running for cover to wait it out. But in our family we never held a grudge for an extended time frame, which is something I can't handle at all. That was the way things were done in my husband's family. (Silence until eventually something else came up and the issue was "forgotten").

Seems like we are shaped much more by these early childhood experiences than I thought.

The worst part of it is...I catch myself sounding more and more like my parents - which I remember swearing as a teenager I was going to be 'better' than my parents. I don't scream like a fishwife, but I can bark like a football coach.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[JenT 0]

... The worse part of it is...I catch myself sounding more and more like my parents - which I remember swearing as a teenager I was going to be 'better' than my parents.

Don't EVEN get me started....

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

The worst part of it is...I catch myself sounding more and more like my parents - which I remember swearing as a teenager I was going to be 'better' than my parents. I don't scream like a fishwife, but I can bark like a football coach.

i know i've made my dad proud. i sound more conservative than him at times

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The worst part of it is...I catch myself sounding more and more like my parents - which I remember swearing as a teenager I was going to be 'better' than my parents. I don't scream like a fishwife, but I can bark like a football coach.

i know i've made my dad proud. i sound more conservative than him at times

I knew it. You were brainwashed by your dad! What did you do during the rebel teen years, Charles - joined the ACLU?

[nayalamb 0]

... The worse part of it is...I catch myself sounding more and more like my parents - which I remember swearing as a teenager I was going to be 'better' than my parents.

Don't EVEN get me started....

when i start to sound like my mom, that usually stops me cold. i do NOT wanna even get to that level. love mom to death, but DAYUM can she go on and on about stuff...

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

I knew it. You were brainwashed by your dad! What did you do during the rebel teen years, Charles - joined the ACLU?

nope, i joined the young republicans

[Yodrak 7]

Mrs.Johnson,

Thank you, I understand you now. Discussion about an issue is good and productive, arguing about an issue is usually divisive and not productive.

Yodrak

Mrs.Johnson,

Interesting that you equate communicating with arguing. In times of disagreement, how about learning how to communicate without arguing?

....

Yodrak

Yodrak,

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, or I probably didn't make myself very clear (that's part of the above mentioned problem, too! )

I didn't think I equated communication with arguing. What I meant is talking to each other (not yelling) while having different opinions on a matter, as opposed to not talking and just evading the issue, apologizing and moving on. Which I think does not really resolve anything and the subject will just come up again and again.

My husband often even doesn't talk enough to help me understand what he feels and why, simply because he doesn't want to hurt me and/or our relationship!

May I ask in which way do you think I equate the two things?

Jen,

Word for word what I was going to respond. Thank you.

Yodrak

Yodrak, I understand your point, but aren't some things worth fighting for?

Many thing are worth fighting for... not everything is worth fighting about!

....

Jen

[ChristinaM 0]

If something is worth fighting for, it usually implies that there is a disagreement - which can lead to fighting "about"!

I think it's important to pick your battles, sure, but when push comes to shove there are things which need to be debated, discussed and sometimes fought over, in my opinion.

[JenT 0]

If something is worth fighting for, it usually implies that there is a disagreement - which can lead to fighting "about"!

I think it's important to pick your battles, sure, but when push comes to shove there are things which need to be debated, discussed and sometimes fought over, in my opinion.

We're saying the same thing.

[luvaLimey 0]

O.k., this might be a touchy subject to discuss on a public forum, but some people here seem to be able to give great advice in personal matters, so here's mine:

My husband and I are both very happy in our relationship, we have known each other for three years before we got married and generally get along extremely well.

The only real problem we have in our relationship is that we can't argue! Every time we really start fighting about something my husband just runs away, only to be hunted down by me to discuss things. I'm a strong believer in communication, but I'm the only one communicating when we argue (naked truth: I argue with him and he just falls completely silent).

I asked him many times why that is so and he only tells me that once I get mad at him about something he just feels he'd better "get out of the way" before he does something to make me even more angry. Now, that makes me feel like a yelling b***h and I sure hope I'm not! He even told me once that every time we argue (which doesn't happen all that often) he is scared to death to say something "wrong" and I'll just pack my bags and go back to Germany.

I have never, ever in our entire relationship threated anything like that. He knows perfectly well I'd never just leave him for some stupid reason, we've been through quite a bit together already and I'm not the kind of person to just run away from problems, and he admits that he knows that.

Alright, so what can I do? It doesn't seem to get any better. What am I doing wrong to make him shut up? I have to add that his previous marriage was pretty miserable, he (seriously) wasn't allowed to do anything, got yelled at frequently (that might be one reason, but I'm not her!) and eventuelly he found out that wifey had been cheating on him since over a year already, while still living on his money etc. really ugly. I admire him tremendously for having the courage to start over again after all he's been through...

Any advice how I can help him/us to overcome this? I really like the reconciliations but I'd like to be able to have a "cleaning" arguement every once in a while!

Thanks...

why would you want to start an argument with your husband? thats insane.

... for the make-up sex?