Fingerprints Problem Abroad

[Benjamin44 10]

Hi everyone,

So, I find myself in a unique jam- at least, I couldn't find anyone else on this wonderful forum who has gone through something similar.

Like every other Canadian applying for a Green Card, I need to obtain Certified Criminal Record Check from the RCMP. However, being that I live outside of Canada, the process is that I need to do my fingerprints at a local police force and mail them in. Problem is- the police force where I live (Israel) does NOT- under any circumsctances- provide fingerprinting services to regular citizens. The instructions for the Document on the RCMP website (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing-empr2-eng.htm) specifically state that it needs to be done by a police agency- in fact, the name and address of the agency must be on the form, along with the signature of the official taking them. Even if I somehow had my own fingerprints done, how could I provide that information if the police agency here does not provide those services at all?? The Consualte here has no idea what's flying in this regard- they told me to go to the local police to do it, not realising that the local police in the very country in which they are posted does not provide these services.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.

[Inky 1,111]

May not be of help but I remember a post that someone had the same issue and they found a service online that they ended up using. I hope someone here remembers the name of it! It was quite a while ago that it was posted.

[Lemonslice 4,886]

I think the Commissionnaires are the ones providing the service Inky is talking about, see this thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/223382-digital-fingerprinting-for-those-who-have-lived-in-canada-but-currently-do-not/

Other possible solutions: traveling to a nearby country, traveling back to Canada.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Boston~Montreal

[Lemonslice 4,886]

The Consualte here has no idea what's flying in this regard- they told me to go to the local police to do it, not realising that the local police in the very country in which they are posted does not provide these services.

Do you mean the Canadian or American Consulate? I guess some Canadian consulates and embassies are able to take fingerprints, from that line on the RCMP web page "Canadian embassies and consulates may not have adequate resources or facilities to provide this service." - they may not, but some may. Good luck.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Hi everyone,

So, I find myself in a unique jam- at least, I couldn't find anyone else on this wonderful forum who has gone through something similar.

Like every other Canadian applying for a Green Card, I need to obtain Certified Criminal Record Check from the RCMP. However, being that I live outside of Canada, the process is that I need to do my fingerprints at a local police force and mail them in. Problem is- the police force where I live (Israel) does NOT- under any circumsctances- provide fingerprinting services to regular citizens. The instructions for the Document on the RCMP website (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing-empr2-eng.htm) specifically state that it needs to be done by a police agency- in fact, the name and address of the agency must be on the form, along with the signature of the official taking them. Even if I somehow had my own fingerprints done, how could I provide that information if the police agency here does not provide those services at all?? The Consualte here has no idea what's flying in this regard- they told me to go to the local police to do it, not realising that the local police in the very country in which they are posted does not provide these services.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.

Can teh Israelie police station provide a letter indicating that they do not do fingerprints? I would suggest going to one of the Middle Eastern VJ forums and finding someone from Israel and ask what they did in the past - that may be most helpful

[Benjamin44 10]

I think the Commissionnaires are the ones providing the service Inky is talking about, see this thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/223382-digital-fingerprinting-for-those-who-have-lived-in-canada-but-currently-do-not/

Thanks Boston- I checked the website of Commissionaires, it seems that you have to be in Canada to use their service- as all fingerprint applications must be done in person and they only have locations in Canada. It is confusing though, because the title of the thread specifically mentions that this is for people who do not currently live in Canada... I will try to call Commissionaires and am going to PM Bryan_in_Tokyo who started that thread. But

I can't say I'm optimistic about that company being an option...

Other possible solutions: traveling to a nearby country, traveling back to Canada.

Traveling to Canada would be a crazy thing to have to do- it would cost me over $1,000, just to spend a few days there to obtain one lousy document- never mind the time off work. As for traveling to a nearby country- do you think I would even be allowed to do this? Could I just walk into a foreign police station in a completely foreign country to have fingerprints taken, without any sort of status in that country whatsoever (e.g. resident, student)? Seems unlikely that is the kind of thing they will do for a random tourist in their country for one day. But I guess it is worth a phone call or 2 to Cyprus, Greece or Jordan.

Do you mean the Canadian or American Consulate? I guess some Canadian consulates and embassies are able to take fingerprints, from that line on the RCMP web page "Canadian embassies and consulates may not have adequate resources or facilities to provide this service." - they may not, but some may. Good luck.

When I wrote it I meant the Canadian Consulate, but the truth is it applies to both. The Canadian Embassy told me that they do not provide these services, and sent me the link to that RCMP page along with instructions to have the fingerprints done at a local Israeli police station. The are completely oblivious to the fact that their own local police does not provide these services, which kind of shocked me (although I guess I shouldn't be shocked). The U.S. Consualte here, though, where I have applied for DCF, also told me that the process is to have the fingerprints done at a local police station, but I don't blame them as much since the majority of people applying here are probably Israelis who have never lived anywhere else, who obviously don't need to have their fingerprints done to obtain a similar record from the Israeli police. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is only Canada who requires fingerprints for these types of criminal record checks.

Can teh Israelie police station provide a letter indicating that they do not do fingerprints? I would suggest going to one of the Middle Eastern VJ forums and finding someone from Israel and ask what they did in the past - that may be most helpful

Udella- that's a fantastic idea, in theory. I did a check, and I'm pretty sure I am one of only 2 people who have ever filed through Israel who are registered on this forum, let alone someone who filed through Israel who ALSO just happened to live in Canada at some point.

In terms of getting a letter from the Israeli police that they don't do fingerprints- I'm sure I can get that, but how would it help? The RCMP will still need my fingerprints to provide the Certified Criminal Record Check.

[Lemonslice 4,886]

Good luck and please come back to tell us what you ended up doing - having to do.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Thanks Boston- I checked the website of Commissionaires, it seems that you have to be in Canada to use their service- as all fingerprint applications must be done in person and they only have locations in Canada. It is confusing though, because the title of the thread specifically mentions that this is for people who do not currently live in Canada... I will try to call Commissionaires and am going to PM Bryan_in_Tokyo who started that thread. But

I can't say I'm optimistic about that company being an option...

Traveling to Canada would be a crazy thing to have to do- it would cost me over $1,000, just to spend a few days there to obtain one lousy document- never mind the time off work. As for traveling to a nearby country- do you think I would even be allowed to do this? Could I just walk into a foreign police station in a completely foreign country to have fingerprints taken, without any sort of status in that country whatsoever (e.g. resident, student)? Seems unlikely that is the kind of thing they will do for a random tourist in their country for one day. But I guess it is worth a phone call or 2 to Cyprus, Greece or Jordan.

When I wrote it I meant the Canadian Consulate, but the truth is it applies to both. The Canadian Embassy told me that they do not provide these services, and sent me the link to that RCMP page along with instructions to have the fingerprints done at a local Israeli police station. The are completely oblivious to the fact that their own local police does not provide these services, which kind of shocked me (although I guess I shouldn't be shocked). The U.S. Consualte here, though, where I have applied for DCF, also told me that the process is to have the fingerprints done at a local police station, but I don't blame them as much since the majority of people applying here are probably Israelis who have never lived anywhere else, who obviously don't need to have their fingerprints done to obtain a similar record from the Israeli police. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is only Canada who requires fingerprints for these types of criminal record checks.

Udella- that's a fantastic idea, in theory. I did a check, and I'm pretty sure I am one of only 2 people who have ever filed through Israel who are registered on this forum, let alone someone who filed through Israel who ALSO just happened to live in Canada at some point.

In terms of getting a letter from the Israeli police that they don't do fingerprints- I'm sure I can get that, but how would it help? The RCMP will still need my fingerprints to provide the Certified Criminal Record Check.

Please do tell us what you end up with - there seem to be a number of reasons why all the suggestions offered are impossible, but you may end of having to attempt one of them because the VISA process is fairly unbending and they don't make exceptions. You do seem to be in a tough spot.

[Benjamin44 10]

Please do tell us what you end up with - there seem to be a number of reasons why all the suggestions offered are impossible, but you may end of having to attempt one of them because the VISA process is fairly unbending and they don't make exceptions. You do seem to be in a tough spot.

Well, I could tell you what's been going on since- but sadly, that's not much. Today, I finally got someone from the American Consulate over here on the phone- which I was only able to do because they called me since they didn't understand my email inquiry about this issue. They were very unhelpful- they said all they could do was send me the instructions on how to obtain a Criminal Record Check from outside of Canada. I calmly explained that I have already received these instructions weeks ago, and that I had no idea how to comply with them since the local Israeli police does not provide fingerprint services. They were surprised by this fact (which tells you something right there), and said that was all the information they had and didn't know what else to tell me- I needed the document to proceed, and I should contact the RCMP as to how to obtain it, she didn't know. The funniest thing about it was that she said- "you're not the first person to go through this in this situation, so obviously it's not that hard- we have hundreds of Canadians apply here in Jerusalem." I laughed at that in my head, thinking- if it's so common and everyone does it, then how do you not know what the process is?!? I kept that to myself, asked for a supervisor, to which they responded that the workers would get in personal trouble if they were to transfer me to one over this matter. So that was that.

In the meantime, I've been trying to get through to the RCMP- did anyone else realise how hard that is?? Even when you dial to get transfered to an agent, and they say "please hold, someone will be with you shortly" it's still a voice-mail that picks up. They returned my call once after I left a message, but the person told me they had never heard of this happening (can you believe that?!) and that this wasn't Canada's problem, if I'm immigrating to the U.S. then the rules they set are their problem and not ours. I tried to calmly explain that as a Canadian I have the right to this document, regardless of what I use it for, and can you please explain how I can obtain it where I live? No answer other than the regular instructions. I asked for a supervisor, was told he wasn't in and that I should try calling back another time. Of course that's impossible since they never answer, and I bet that the times I am called back will always be times that the supervisor isn't in- after all the supervisor ins't the one who calls back. Basically, every country is blaming the other one, and I am stuck with no way to obtain the most basic of documents so I can proceed with a relatively simple immigration case. I mean there is really nothing complicated about my case, so that's pretty annoying.

Does anybody know a different phone number for the RCMP? Maybe one that goes straight to the Criminal Real Time supervisor, or skips all the voice-mails, that would be great. Up to now I've been calling 613-998-6362. If anyone has another number for the RCMP that would be a huge help. For now I will keep trying to call there.

Sadly, my PM to bryan_in_tokyo (who wrote about a possible solution to this in another thread a year back) has gone unanswered- maybe he doesn't even follow this website anymore...

Udella, it's true that the process is unbending, and I appreciate that. It may be that I will have to travel acorss the world to get one stupid document- but to me, that is such an extreme (and VERY expensive!!) thing to have to do that I'm definitely going to try to pull out all the stops first.

So that's the progress report for now. Thanks everyone for taking interest and trying to help- VJ is the best!!

Benjamin

[Flames9_RN 358]

My head is still fuzzy from working nights---I was in Canada, so may be different---but I got a background check completed by the Winnipeg city police--yet I never stepped inside the building. Did it all on the phone or online, honestly can't remember--but I do know they mailed me the background check. You could probably contact them, THEN give them a Canadian mailing addy---and then have that person mail it to you.

Instructions: http://www.winnipeg.ca/police/AboutTheService/faqs.stm#1-1

[Benjamin44 10]

My head is still fuzzy from working nights---I was in Canada, so may be different---but I got a background check completed by the Winnipeg city police--yet I never stepped inside the building. Did it all on the phone or online, honestly can't remember--but I do know they mailed me the background check. You could probably contact them, THEN give them a Canadian mailing addy---and then have that person mail it to you.

Instructions: http://www.winnipeg.ca/police/AboutTheService/faqs.stm#1-1

Hi Flames,

Thanks for the information! If I can really do it that way, well then yeah that would solve the problem. I would probably need one from Ontario, which is where I'm from in Canada, but they probably have something similar.

However, I'm almost positive that the requirement is for an RCMP Certified Criminal Record Check, or the other RCMP document which doesn't require fingerprints. The document you are suggesting seems to be only a local/provincial background check, and not nationwide. The databases they would search would only cover that area. The truth is that would seem to be sufficient, since I have only lived in Ontario. and clearly it was enough for you. It's just- I have a friend who applied here and submitted a provincial-wide check, and they called him back to get a nation-wide one from the RCMP. (He ended up doing it in Canada, as he was going there anyways.) It could be that it doesn't matter that I am not physically in Canada- but rather that I am not applying through the Consulate in Canada. Perhaps since you applied in Canada, the Consulate there accepted the province-wide check, but overseas they need the RCMP one. Does this make sense? Seems tough to swallow that, but they keep telling me here that I need to contact the RCMP, plus that experience with my friend... but I will definitely try to look into it. If it works, and I don't even need to submit fingerprints- that would solve everything.

Any ideas how to check this out, besides calling the Consulate here since they have already answered me on this? Has anybody else submitted this provincial Criminal Background Check instead of an RCMP document for U.S. immigration purposes, and where did you apply?

Thanks Flames and everyone else!

Benjamin

[Krikit 1,164]

How frustrating for you, Benjamin. I'm thinking I would call an RCMP detachment out in the boonies somewhere and see what they say. You're more likely to get someone on the line. In the meantime, I'll do some searching and see if I get any hits. Will let you know.

[Krikit 1,164]

I don't suppose you could contact an independent company.... or perhaps airport security.... and ask them if they could process your prints and send those on to the RCMP?

[Krikit 1,164]

Here's a fingerprint service in Haifa:

http://israel-business.dundb.co.il/D532528692.aspx

I would have them fill out the form and submit it with a letter of explanation to the RCMP.

[Benjamin44 10]

I don't suppose you could contact an independent company.... or perhaps airport security.... and ask them if they could process your prints and send those on to the RCMP?

As for an independent company- the RCMP page (I posted a link in an earlier post in this thread) seems pretty clear it needs to be a police force- they even need the official name of the police agency, and the name and signature of the official taking them.

As for airport security- they probably wouldn't do that if the police won't. It's not like I can show up at the airport and do fingerprints, is it? Truth is I hadn't even thought of that...

Thanks!

Benjamin