'Islamization' of Paris .... from hidden camera

[Heracles 417]

People don't move to another country to practice their religion. They move for other reasons. While they move, they don't want to abandon their way of life, cultures, food, customs, religions, etc. Does anyone ###### about Italians still eating pasta after hundreds of years of being immigrants in America? Does anyone ###### that they practice Catholic Christianity and pledge allegiance to the Pope?

Fundi Muslims are the first type of immigrant to willing move to other countries, that actually have a way of life that totally contradicts that of their own. One in, these same fundis are expecting the west forfeit their way of life and cater for them. Yet go to one of their countries and a woman can be flogged or stoned for dressing inappropriately.

The rest of us have proven we can get along, yet strangely enough most countries experiencing some sort of turmoil today have Islam in the equation. Funny coincidence that hey.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Heracles

[IndigoSkies 168]

Closing down entire streets for daily prays, like they do in Muslim countries, is not freedom of religion.

The same story is being played in a number of first world countries. Quite Frankly, the rest of us are getting sick and tired of having to bend over backwards to cater for one groups beliefs and way of life. When I travel to another country, I don't expect them to stop everything and cater for me.

Due to the size of the US, such changes have not hit home yet, so people like yourself still have the attitude of what's the big deal.

Well, if closing down streets are a problem. Then give these people permission and the money to build bigger mosques in a suitable location. So they can pray inside and not block the street. Everyone would win then. They wouldn't have to pray in the sun or the rain. And you can get to your brothel quickly without Muslims hindering your vices.

When you travel to another country, you are there as a guest for a few days. A few weeks. If you moved there, you'd want to have as much of the luxuries that you have now. And you'd be right in demanding them as long as you didn't impede on other's rights also.

The reason US hasn't been hit with these "problems" are not because US is big. It's because USA doesn't have a dominant cultures. Everyone's an American while still being Irish, Italian, Indian, Cubans, Mexican, Chinese, Russians, Ecuadorians, etc. You get the idea. These kinds of problem will never afflict America so long as people like you are kept out of mainstream decision making.

[The_Dude 1,142]

People don't move to another country to practice their religion. They move for other reasons. While they move, they don't want to abandon their way of life, cultures, food, customs, religions, etc. Does anyone ###### about Italians still eating pasta after hundreds of years of being immigrants in America? Does anyone ###### that they practice Catholic Christianity and pledge allegiance to the Pope?

France is not a secular country. It's very much a religious country. Its government funds churches and synagogues. For fairness's sake, it also funds mosques.

You have moved into the realm of the absurd and I will not even bother beyond this post. You are plain and simply making sh!t up at this point. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have immigrated to flee religious persecution in their homeland. Secondly, your analogy about Italian descended Americans is ridiculous. Finally, if you don't think that France is a secular nation, you clearly have never been there, nor done anything other than a cursory read on wikipedia about it.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Rob & Mel

[Heracles 417]

Well, if closing down streets are a problem. Then give these people permission and the money to build bigger mosques in a suitable location. So they can pray inside and not block the street. Everyone would win then. They wouldn't have to pray in the sun or the rain. And you can get to your brothel quickly without Muslims hindering your vices.

When you travel to another country, you are there as a guest for a few days. A few weeks. If you moved there, you'd want to have as much of the luxuries that you have now. And you'd be right in demanding them as long as you didn't impede on other's rights also.

The reason US hasn't been hit with these "problems" are not because US is big. It's because USA doesn't have a dominant cultures. Everyone's an American while still being Irish, Italian, Indian, Cubans, Mexican, Chinese, Russians, Ecuadorians, etc. You get the idea. These kinds of problem will never afflict America so long as people like you are kept out of mainstream decision making.

Actually I am referring to migrating to other countries. Most of us from Asia or west seem to integrate well into other countries we have migrated to. We also get along well and seldom will you see someone, like the Italians you mentioned, wishing the death of others with differing beliefs.

I found your comment regarding giving them money interesting. One again, it's clearly up to everyone else to cater for them, rather than it being the other way round. Like saying I should be able to come into your house and then expect you to change your house, lifestyle and what you eat, because I don't like it. Would you do this for me?

Edited September 8, 2010 by Heracles

[IndigoSkies 168]

Right I am delusional, it's just a coincidence that similar problems are playing out in every single country with a large Fundi Muslim migration over the last two decades.

I have a good idea actually, considering both of my parents immigrated to Australia. The difference is that they did everything they can to integrate into Australia, as did most of the other Greek and Italian migrants.

The problem with Islam is that it's way of life directly contradicts [conflicts] western values and our way of life. To the contrary, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and atheists very easily get along with one another.

Look man! Don't try to use individual cases of integration to make broad stroked statement. There are individual Muslims are more integrated than you can ever imagine. Maybe even too integrate to the point of drinking alcohol and going to night clubs. But that's beside the problem. My knowledge of Australian geo-politics and social structure isn't as broad as is with Italians/Irish in to America. Early immigrants were chided for not integrating. They were despised and hated. They were stereotyped as being thugs and bloodthirsty. You should do a bit more, actually scratch that, you should to a lot more reading regarding immigration in history.

There are many things in those cultures that you mentioned that directly contradict with West. Just because the groups collectively has decided to forget their root doesn't mean everyone should. Christians are commanded to stoned adulteress. They don't do it. Jews are asked to stick their fingers in their daughters to check for virgin blood, they don't do it. Doesn't this sort of contract with West? Hindus are asked to drink cow piss and sacrifice their daughters to their gods. Bhuddist are asked to beg. Just specific examples.

Am I gettting any of my points through to you? Did you change your mind even just a little about anything today?

Edited September 8, 2010 by IndigoSkies

[Heracles 417]

I see I see, it's all about the west bending over backwards to accept the fundis.

The first gen has integrated well into so many places. After all Habibis and Farouks are regulars in the papers in Aus, unfortunately this is usually in relation to organized crime, gang rapes or other violence. I guess that must be a result of intolerance too right. Just strange how Christian Arabs who immigrated during the same time-frame, do not have the same problems with crime.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Heracles

[Ban Hammer 12,867]

The flames of hate in your is so strong that you are willing to burn down America (I presume you're from here) and kill its 300 million people in the process rather than see Muslim/brown immigrants being able to worship and live freely in America. I wonder if there were Germans like you back then also. Did they go to 1940s era equivalent of forums and say they'd rather burn down Germany and kills 12 million people than let the evil Jews have equal rights and dignity in Europe.

Look, man! People praying and living their lives according to their higher sense of morality from religious sources isn't colonisation. Colonisation is when you forcibly enter a country, steal its natural recourses, turn its men into slaves, and women in to your whores, and children into your toys, and environment into your brothel. Colonisation is when natives are given blankets with smallpox virus. Colonisation is when people are scalped, maimed, murdered, and raped.

he's australian.

[IndigoSkies 168]

First of all, I have to ask, Do you actually know what a secular state is? You should look it up before you actually try to argue that France is not a secular state. You really should stick to facts and stop trying to pass off your own personal beliefs as any sort of source of information. Decades to try to assimilate into western culture? I think you are underestimating people. You're not going to find many people who think that is an acceptable timeframe.

I know what is a secular state. Secularism of a country cannot be meassured properly. The reason I said France isn't a secular country is because its govenment provides for churches, mosques, temples with tax dollar. This is public knowledge for which I cannot be bothered to ####### around to find you references. You can google it yourself.

Noone has the right to say "you must integrate by x many years" or this many years is acceptable and that many aren't. Integration happens over long period of time and with peoples own accord. You cannot force it upon anyone. The more force you apply, the more raction you will get. The longer it will take for you to find your integration unicorn.

And please don't ask people to assimilate. That's offensive and wrong. Noone needs to assimilate into anything. People should keep their languages, cultues, religions, foods, faiths, ways of life, etc.

[Heracles 417]

There are many things in those cultures that you mentioned that directly contradict with West. Just because the groups collectively has decided to forget their root doesn't mean everyone should. Christians are commanded to stoned adulteress. They don't do it. Jews are asked to stick their fingers in their daughters to check for virgin blood, they don't do it. Doesn't this sort of contract with West? Hindus are asked to drink cow piss and sacrifice their daughters to their gods. Bhuddist are asked to beg. Just specific examples.

Are you seriously going to say this #######?

[IndigoSkies 168]

I see I see, it's all about the west bending over backwards to accept the fundis.

The first gen has integrated well into so many places. After all Habibis and Farouks are regulars in the papers in Aus, unfortunately this is usually in relation to organized crime, gang rapes or other violence. I guess that must be a result of intolerance too right. Just strange how Christian Arabs who immigrated during the same time-frame, do not have the same problems with crime.

Christians Arabs constitute a very small number of people. A small group has more success of integrating than a large group. Many of the social problems inflicted upon immigrant communities are direct result of intolerance, stereotypes, and racism. When your Habibis and Farouks can't get a job because their names are just that, Habibis and Farouks, they have lots of time to smoke pot by the beach and harass your Sheila’s. They can't get a job because they aren't educated. They can't get educated because they can't get into the school. They can't get into the school because they don't speak the language. They can't speak the language because they aren't enough social services provided. Do you see it now? The source of crimes isn't only intolerance. But intolerance is one of the big source/reason.

[Heracles 417]

Christians Arabs constitute a very small number of people.

Probably has a lot to do with them being systematically butchered.

The region has not had peace or shown a drop of tolerance in over 4,000 years, why change now.

[IndigoSkies 168]

Are you seriously going to say this #######?

It's not #######. It's in the Torah. This is one rare case when I will bother myself to look up some reference for you.

"If a man takes a wife and, after laying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, 'I married this woman but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,' then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do that?] that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity.' Then her parents shall display the cloth [the father would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of cloth into his daughter's ####### before she gets married and keep that bloody cloth for as long as his daughter is married] with before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:13-18)"

[The_Dude 1,142]

I know what is a secular state. Secularism of a country cannot be meassured properly. The reason I said France isn't a secular country is because its govenment provides for churches, mosques, temples with tax dollar. This is public knowledge for which I cannot be bothered to ####### around to find you references. You can google it yourself.

Noone has the right to say "you must integrate by x many years" or this many years is acceptable and that many aren't. Integration happens over long period of time and with peoples own accord. You cannot force it upon anyone. The more force you apply, the more raction you will get. The longer it will take for you to find your integration unicorn.

And please don't ask people to assimilate. That's offensive and wrong. Noone needs to assimilate into anything. People should keep their languages, cultues, religions, foods, faiths, ways of life, etc.

So, what you're saying is that the literal and accepted definition of what is a secular state doesn't fall in line with what you think one should be? Sorry, you're just wrong there. France is a secular state, they allow all religions and do not show favor on one over another. They also frown upon overt displays of religion in public. This has been a part of france since they became a republic. Like it or not, that is their way and if you are going to move there, you are to abide by the laws of the land.

If someone is going to immigrate to another country and make virtually no effort to become a part of that nations culture and society by shunning cultural norms and only abiding by their own, then they will be ostracized. I'm not suggesting that they drop their own culture and try to become Bobby Jindal. But at the same time, respect cultural norms of the nation in which you are moving to.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Rob & Mel

[IndigoSkies 168]

Probably has a lot to do with them being systematically butchered.

The region has not had peace or shown a drop of tolerance in over 4,000 years, why change now.

It's the cradle of civilisation. All empires criss-crossed in Middle East. It's bound to have history of needless bloodletting. Christians, Jews, Muslims all were butcher here. There's blood on everyone's hand. Are you change the subject again? Do you have problem with keeping the same chain of thoughts? ADD?

[Heracles 417]

Many of the social problems inflicted upon immigrant communities are direct result of intolerance, stereotypes, and racism. When your Habibis and Farouks can't get a job because their names are just that, Habibis and Farouks, they have lots of time to smoke pot by the beach and harass your Sheila’s. They can't get a job because they aren't educated. They can't get educated because they can't get into the school. They can't get into the school because they don't speak the language. They can't speak the language because they aren't enough social services provided. Do you see it now? The source of crimes isn't only intolerance. But intolerance is one of the big source/reason.

Not true at all. They have the exact same access to education and everything else as anyone there does. Actually, most speak English.

I've lost count of the times I have read of Muslim youths being caught going out and deliberately bashing others, like Indian students. Interesting thing is that they tend to do it in groups, never one on one. Much like terrorism I guess, not man enough to fight with someone to their face, therefore, have to play dirty.