ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Fandango 1,439]

Cman peeps, this is getting out of hand. And we're beating things to death here until they're a bloody pulp. My head is spinning from all the threads.

Who wants to hit the 'reset' button and just play nice? We're all adults, do we really need to revamp TOS and get mods involved for essentially what are personality conflicts? How bout we give it a try?

[LaL 418]

+1

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

Cman peeps, this is getting out of hand. And we're beating things to death here until they're a bloody pulp. My head is spinning from all the threads.

Who wants to hit the 'reset' button and just play nice? We're all adults, do we really need to revamp TOS and get mods involved for essentially what are personality conflicts? How bout we give it a try?

reported!

[The_Dude 1,142]

Cman peeps, this is getting out of hand. And we're beating things to death here until they're a bloody pulp. My head is spinning from all the threads.

Who wants to hit the 'reset' button and just play nice? We're all adults, do we really need to revamp TOS and get mods involved for essentially what are personality conflicts? How bout we give it a try?

The TOS is actually pretty well written. What is needed is uniform enforcement of it.

[mox 298]

The assertion behind the OP is that hey things are really groovy around here, why can't people just stop making trouble to make trouble so we can all just get along. I would love for nothing better than for us all to "just get along." But there are a lot of us here that just aren't going to play the Stepford wife to give the appearance that all is white picket fences and well manicured lawns.

ETA: nobody that I know of is arguing for a new or revamped TOS. I'm not sure why this keeps cropping up, but as Rob says, the TOS is actually very well written and simply needs to be enforced in a consistent fashion.

Edited August 23, 2010 by mox

[Amby 490]

I like pink

[The_Dude 1,142]

I like pink

Me too. Maybe I'll change my member title to I Are About The Pink.

[Fandango 1,439]

Ok, my bad on the TOS guys, don't bite my head off, it's early and I'm almost 9 mos preggo Take pity on me.

I know it's not gonna be all sh!ts and giggles, and speaking as one who doesn't back down from an argument, who personally doesn't gel with some on here, I understand the gravity of what I'm asking. But if we can all take a step back, and look at how many bs bickers are going on simultaneously, doesn't it strike anyone else as ridiculous? This morning, it did for me.

I have always had something negative to say about Kathryn's modding abilities....then I read that post of hers where she explained the process. Isn't it a bit ridiculous that she and the others have to go through all that ####### for a bunch of grown adults? I'd have told Ewok to stuff his 'job' because it seems like a neverending task. No, VJ is not the worst place, hell, we're tame in comparison. But still.

All I'm saying is can't we at least TRY?

/rodney king

[LaL 418]

I +1 'ed it because I think the message of consistency etc. is getting lost in some petty examples.

[Amby 490]

Me too. Maybe I'll change my member title to I Are About The Pink.

Do it!

[mox 298]

Ok, my bad on the TOS guys, don't bite my head off, it's early and I'm almost 9 mos preggo Take pity on me.

You are lucky in that I have already had a nice breakfast.

I know it's not gonna be all sh!ts and giggles, and speaking as one who doesn't back down from an argument, who personally doesn't gel with some on here, I understand the gravity of what I'm asking. But if we can all take a step back, and look at how many bs bickers are going on simultaneously, doesn't it strike anyone else as ridiculous? This morning, it did for me.

The problem is that the moderators and admin simply refuse to engage on these issues in any kind of real way that would affect real and positive change. If they're concerned about it, they're only concerned privately, which does nobody any good. At some point you just need to make a ruckus. It's not fun, it often becomes tedium, but it seems to be the only way to get them to listen. If the mods and admin were willing to have real discussions about these very real problems, I'm guessing the rhetoric and tone would dial way down. But it's really up to them.

I have always had something negative to say about Kathryn's modding abilities....then I read that post of hers where she explained the process. Isn't it a bit ridiculous that she and the others have to go through all that ####### for a bunch of grown adults? I'd have told Ewok to stuff his 'job' because it seems like a neverending task. No, VJ is not the worst place, hell, we're tame in comparison. But still.

Coming from somebody else who's very critical of Kathryn's modding techniques, I was actually very happy to see a moderator go to the effort of explaining some behind the scenes stuff. This is what moderators do, even on a forum populated with adults. I want to see more of this. I want to see a couple other moderators write stuff like that, instead of just starting arguments, abusing their authority, or posting inane bullsh*t all the time. Moderating is a thinking job, not a pushing buttons job, and those posts of Kathryn's showed that at the very least, she's trying. Let's not discourage that.

[Amby 490]

mox - I've been reading these threads and haven't really contributed much since I don't really have a problem with VJ. Do you have actual suggestions on things that could change? Specific things they could do to make the moderation better? I've noticed that Ewok usually does something if someone makes a doable suggestion.

I think the problem may be some people just don't feel like something is worth reporting unless it's *really* bad. Everyone has a different "bad" meter. Other people just don't give a sh*t because it's the internet. Is the solution more mods who are on more of the time and reading the majority of threads?

[mox 298]

mox - I've been reading these threads and haven't really contributed much since I don't really have a problem with VJ. Do you have actual suggestions on things that could change? Specific things they could do to make the moderation better? I've noticed that Ewok usually does something if someone makes a doable suggestion.

I think the problem may be some people just don't feel like something is worth reporting unless it's *really* bad. Everyone has a different "bad" meter. Other people just don't give a sh*t because it's the internet. Is the solution more mods who are on more of the time and reading the majority of threads?

I make suggestions in about every other post. The big ones I push:

- Wrap OT in the same TOS that every other section of VJ is expected to follow.

- If that's not going to work, then write an OT-specific TOS so that everyone is following the same rules. The current "loosely enforced in TOS" version is unfair to everybody, members and mods alike.

- Moderators need to stop pushing buttons to moderate in favor of actual moderation.

- Ewok needs to man up and admit he needs at least another admin (not moderator). It's too much for one person, and the site suffers because of his lack of bandwidth.

- Expect moderators to hold themselves to a higher standard. Whether they like it or not, they represent VJ. Either wear the coat and tie, or come back down in the trenches with us.

- Enforce the TOS uniformly.

[Amby 490]

I make suggestions in about every other post. The big ones I push:

- Wrap OT in the same TOS that every other section of VJ is expected to follow.

- If that's not going to work, then write an OT-specific TOS so that everyone is following the same rules. The current "loosely enforced in TOS" version is unfair to everybody, members and mods alike.

- Moderators need to stop pushing buttons to moderate in favor of actual moderation.

- Ewok needs to man up and admit he needs at least another admin (not moderator). It's too much for one person, and the site suffers because of his lack of bandwidth.

- Expect moderators to hold themselves to a higher standard. Whether they like it or not, they represent VJ. Either wear the coat and tie, or come back down in the trenches with us.

- Enforce the TOS uniformly.

This is the one I am curious about. If they work mainly on reports, how do you suggest they do that? Some things are missed because no one reports them. If one person is "attacked" by another person they may not give a sh*t so they don't report it. Another person gets attacked for the same things, it's reported, nothing is done about it, people are outraged even though that same person who is outraged got away with doing the same thing a week before because the other person just didn't give a sh*t about reporting.

Should there be mods who are normal OT readers? I think there's a few people in there who read a lot of threads and aren't sh*t stirrers. Maybe there could be some sort of mod who alerts the other mods to things that may have gone unreported because one person doesn't care.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Amby

[chri'stina 190]

Cman peeps, this is getting out of hand. And we're beating things to death here until they're a bloody pulp. My head is spinning from all the threads.

Who wants to hit the 'reset' button and just play nice? We're all adults, do we really need to revamp TOS and get mods involved for essentially what are personality conflicts? How bout we give it a try?

A funny thing to me is that the back and forth posting thread wars between various sides do not at all do anything to encourage discussion of the real issues in my opinion. Some just antagonize the other side while trying to prove their points. People hell bent on their own opinion won't give a ####### about what the other side posts, especially if they consider the person ignorant, socialist, racist, nutty, too liberal etc.