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Alex.

Question about N-600 and passport

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Has anyone applied for a passport for a minor child before submitting the N-600 and getting the certificate?

If you do and USCIS finds out that the child is not a USC yet(?) then you might cause future problems since the form is for USC only and applying for a passport means you declare you are a US citizen.

I am not as familiar with the N-600 as the N-400 but I would really recommend you read about it well before you take a step that could hinder things in the near future.


N-400 Naturalization Timeline

06/28/11 .. Mailed N-400 package via Priority mail with delivery confirmation

06/30/11 .. Package Delivered to Dallas Lockbox

07/06/11 .. Received e-mail notification of application acceptance

07/06/11 .. Check cashed

07/08/11 .. Received NOA letter

07/29/11 .. Received text/e-mail for biometrics notice

08/03/11 .. Received Biometrics letter - scheduled for 8/24/11

08/04/11 .. Walk-in finger prints done.

08/08/11 .. Received text/e-mail: Placed in line for interview scheduling

09/12/11 .. Received Yellow letter dated 9/7/11

09/13/11 .. Received text/e-mail: Interview scheduled

09/16/11 .. Received interview letter

10/19/11 .. Interview - PASSED

10/20/11 .. Received text/email: Oath scheduled

10/22/11 .. Received OATH letter

11/09/11 .. Oath ceremony

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A child living in the US with a parent becomes a US citizen when the parent does.

If you do and USCIS finds out that the child is not a USC yet(?) then you might cause future problems since the form is for USC only and applying for a passport means you declare you are a US citizen.

I guess my question was, how difficult is to obtain a US passport for a minor child of a naturalized citizen (both living in the US) before a certificate of citizenship is obtained for the child through a N-600?

I have read the instructions on how to obtain a US passport using indirect evidence of citizenship (parent's naturalization certificate included). It is possible and not against the law but I would like to hear about people's success in doing this and whether it was complicated.

Edited by Alex.

Naturalized USC

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A child living in the US with a parent becomes a US citizen when the parent does.

I guess my question was, how difficult is to obtain a US passport for a minor child of a naturalized citizen (both living in the US) before a certificate of citizenship is obtained for the child through a N-600?

I have read the instructions on how to obtain a US passport using indirect evidence of citizenship (parent's naturalization certificate included). It is possible and not against the law but I would like to hear about people's success in doing this and whether it was complicated.

IC. Sorry. Can't be of help here....


N-400 Naturalization Timeline

06/28/11 .. Mailed N-400 package via Priority mail with delivery confirmation

06/30/11 .. Package Delivered to Dallas Lockbox

07/06/11 .. Received e-mail notification of application acceptance

07/06/11 .. Check cashed

07/08/11 .. Received NOA letter

07/29/11 .. Received text/e-mail for biometrics notice

08/03/11 .. Received Biometrics letter - scheduled for 8/24/11

08/04/11 .. Walk-in finger prints done.

08/08/11 .. Received text/e-mail: Placed in line for interview scheduling

09/12/11 .. Received Yellow letter dated 9/7/11

09/13/11 .. Received text/e-mail: Interview scheduled

09/16/11 .. Received interview letter

10/19/11 .. Interview - PASSED

10/20/11 .. Received text/email: Oath scheduled

10/22/11 .. Received OATH letter

11/09/11 .. Oath ceremony

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I posted this question a while ago and no one answered. So I went on and requested a passport for my son together with a request for mine. Mine came within 10 days or so but his came with a request for more info. They wanted proof that I am divorced from his father and proof that I have legal custody of him. Both documents were listed on the N-600 instructions but not on the passport instructions form. I then called their 1-800 number to find out what documents would be acceptable as evidence of custody and I was told "whatever you feel like will do it". Then I called the USCIS asking the same question as pertaining the N-600 and was told that they are not "allowed to tell" anything beyond what is written on the forms' instructions!

I got my 5-page divorce agreement translated (it cost me 150 U$ but one translator in particular wanted 850 U$ so do your research when looking for translators, it pays off!) and sent that as well as a few of my son's report cards with my address on them. Last weekend they called asking for "more evidence" as for example my tax returns with my son listed as a dependent. My husband, who took the call, told them the perils we've been trough with lack of information and they apparently approved the passport on the spot.

I am telling all this for those who have children from a previous marriage and become naturalized, the documentation requested for the N-600 is similar to that required for the passport if you ask the latter first. No shourtcuts. And the need for these documents is apparently not listed on the passport form instructions.


Naturalized USC

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Wow..I am presently doing my research on the N-600, and I want to thank the previous poster for this information. I am the mother, and we have exactly the same situation. I am actually going back to the US in a few weeks with my child, and because of this information I still have time to prepare for the documents. Thanks, and to VJ as always!

For anyone who can help..What is the usual timeframe for the filing of N600? And is it okay to apply for a passport before the N600 becomes final?

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Yes you can legally apply for a US passport for your child under 18 years of age that automatically became a US citizen without any proof of that from the USCIS when you received your US citizenship. Can even do this in lieu of getting that child a US citizenship via the N-600, but as responsible parents to that child and his long life in this country, prefer to do both.

One disadvantage of dealing directly with the DOS is they want all original documents, risky of sending these via the mails, may never see them again, I hate that, even if you pay extra, still send those original documents via untraceable first class mail. With the USCIS, just send in copies of that, but have to show up for an interview with the originals. Perhaps getting the kid a plane ticket, can try that at a service station, but only a dozen now throughout the USA.

And yes they want lots of proof, your citizenship, and complete tractability that kid is yours with even permission from that other biological parent. Its all in the passport application instructions, but may have to read those three times.

Perhaps the USCIS is being over generous with that I-751 stage, if you kid/s received their green cards within 90 days, that initial date of yours, just send in an extra 80 bucks per kid and they also receive their ten year green card. So why can't they do that with the N-400? Even at 600 bucks per kid if that is their game, least it will be done all at once without all that fooling around again, and yet another trip to the field office to pick up that kids' certificate. But at the oath ceremony, tell you your eligible kids are US citizens, but with no proof of that. If you deal with the DOS, they want all that original proof, including everything.

That brings about another question, why are the DOS and USCIS two different agencies? Even during your AOS they interact, losing important documents, excuse me, misplace them, that causes severe delays. No private corporation can operate that way, would go out of business, but these two agencies can just increase the fees due to their inefficiency. And we pay the price for that.

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"But at the oath ceremony, tell you your eligible kids are US citizens, but with no proof of that."

Does this mean the kids will not receive their Certificate of Citizenship after oath-taking?

BTW Nick, your daughter and I were both in the November 2010 USC applicants' thread. :)

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Has anyone applied for a passport for a minor child before submitting the N-600 and getting the certificate?

Yes,

hundreds of thousands of people.


There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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"But at the oath ceremony, tell you your eligible kids are US citizens, but with no proof of that."

Does this mean the kids will not receive their Certificate of Citizenship after oath-taking?

BTW Nick, your daughter and I were both in the November 2010 USC applicants' thread. :)

Unfortunately, that is the way it works, no proof of that citizenship, more forms, either the DS-11 and/or the N-600, more evidence with either or both forms, and more money. My stepdaughter barely turned 18, can contribute this to long delays in our AOS process, perhaps even intentional if I was paranoid, so she had to wait an additional two years. USCIS indubitably works by the clock, if you send in your application a second early, can be rejected. If they give your interview a day before your third green card anniversary. have to come back the next day.

Sent them a letter begging to take her with her timeline and the fact they misplaced our AOS application, didn't make any difference, the law is the law. Waiting those two extra years wasn't too bad, but having to drive an extra 1,350 miles and all the paperwork again, was. We actually had four years of tax returns for my wifes' three year.

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The US passport is all the proof of US citizenship one ever needs. A child that became a US citizen based on the naturalization of a parent does not need a Certificate of Citizenship in order to get a US passport. Therefore, I consider the N-600 unnecessary and expensive for a paper that serves no real purpose.


There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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And that will be the path we seek later this year after my Wife's Oath. You could not have said it better.

The US passport is all the proof of US citizenship one ever needs. A child that became a US citizen based on the naturalization of a parent does not need a Certificate of Citizenship in order to get a US passport. Therefore, I consider the N-600 unnecessary and expensive for a paper that serves no real purpose.


IR-5

11/01/2011: I-130 Submitted

11/04/2012: I-130 NOA1

04/19/2012: I-130 NOA2

05/04/2012: NVC Received

05/27/2012: Received I-864/DS 3032 Package

05/28/2012: Pay I-864 Bill

05/29/2012: Submit DS 3032/I-864

06/05/2012: Receive IV Bill online

06/05/2012: IV Bill Paid

06/06/2012: Payment Accepted

06/07/2012: IV Packet Mailed (Additional documents sent next day on 06/08/2012)

08/28/2012: Interview

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The US passport is all the proof of US citizenship one ever needs. A child that became a US citizen based on the naturalization of a parent does not need a Certificate of Citizenship in order to get a US passport. Therefore, I consider the N-600 unnecessary and expensive for a paper that serves no real purpose.

That is your opinion and should be left at that. Mine is, you start off with the USCIS and should end with that. My kid has both, but the US passport is intended for foreign travel and is strictly optional.

Actually my opinion on this subject is we have too way many damned government agencies to deal with, this all started with Nixon and has gone completely nuts. Maybe not to bad with citizenship, just two, but should be only one, this is pure nonsense when two agencies overlap each other. Did you know if you wanted to drill a well for water on a commercial basis, you have to deal with 39 separate governmental agencies! That is completely insane. Prior to WW II, government agencies could only advise congress, that has changed to where each is making up its own laws. We have over 1,525 governmental agencies today. That is positively ridiculous, and each making its own laws.

Today, people are voting for elected officials based on what they believe in, also crazy and against the laws of our constitution. Should be voting for the person that can represent us the best. But representing the people has become history.

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And that's your opinion, Nick, and I respect that. Luckily, it's up to any American, natural born or naturalized, to spend $600 on an application for a Certificate of Citizenship. You, Nick, can get one as well!

Spend away, my friend.


There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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And that's your opinion, Nick, and I respect that. Luckily, it's up to any American, natural born or naturalized, to spend $600 on an application for a Certificate of Citizenship. You, Nick, can get one as well!

Spend away, my friend.

Ha, I don't need one, have a natural born here certificate, again that place of birth thing. You had to get your certificate, because no one brought you here as a kid. My wife also was required to get one, she was over 18. Stepdaughter was debatable, but the USCIS took care of that for us by excessive delays in the AOS process, she barely turned over 18. But since it was marginal, did look into the N-600.

Don't know if you brought a kid here, wasn't easy, under 18, 14 was more like it, required permission from a rather greedy biological father that tried to blackmail us. But after bit of negotiation, did get his court approved letter of permission for his daughter to come here. Negotiation was either he took over with his daughter or pay ten years of child support. We still had to foot the legal bills for all that.

Everything went fine for us with that letter of permission, she got her green card, and the USCIS has record of that. Matter of fact, you don't even need to send in evidence with your N-600, they will retrieve it. But you may have to wait an extra ten or so years for them to get around to that. Better off to send in copies of your evidence. But still the same story with a marriage based application for the N-400, have to send in everything again. But again, just copies, your valuable originals never leave your hand at the interview, same with the N-600.

And the USCIS already has a record of approving that child, kid did get a green card. And a record of that permission from that biological parent.

With the DOS you are starting from scratch and they want all of that information. If they lost my wifes' original divorce papers as just one example, that would cost us several thousand dollars to get another certified copy from her highly corrupted country. Then the DOS also wants that letter of permission. But granted, this only applies if the childs' parent was divorced, the other biological parent is still alive, and the DOS is there to protect the rights of that other parent rather than considering the welfare of the kid. Sure would hate to go through that permission thing again with yet another agency and then via sending a stack of very difficult to replace documents.

Could buy the kid a plane ticket and go to a service center to protect your documents, but won't get by without that additional explaining. Another advantage of applying for the N-600, the USCIS has record of that, and no concerns about being deported if you let your green card expire.

Its not a very good situation for a child, walks in to the oath ceremony with their parent, parent walks out without a green card, but with a certificate, kid walks out with a breen card. Kind of stupid, isn't it, especially when you are told your kid is a US citizen just like you are. Well equally stupid when they tell that parent, they are a US citizen just like they were born here.

What would save this discussion, is if the USCIS would just charge you and extra 85 bucks, and give that kid a certificate. But they don't do it that way, so you have to make the best out of it. At the N-600 ceremony, that is when they take the kids' green card back. I know its 600 bucks, but at least the kid has a permanent record of it, and is free of the USCIS just like his parent is.

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