The poor get poorer and deserve to

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Nothing about you could ever be average.

I feel a little flustered now.

[Nina~ 431]

No offense to you, Alan, but in general, I feel it is up to parents to teach the right/wrong way to approach life. I am not saying you skipped this, but in general, it does seem to be sorely lacking these days. My parents instilled a strong work ethic in me, but I see a lot of people whose parents failed to make them finish projects and work when they weren't going to school. I don't think that helps them in the long run, these people (who aren't kids anymore) seem unable to commit to employment, and tends to feel their employers are unreasonable in their demands for punctuality, attention to detail, etc. etc.

I think it has something to do with a kids personality as well.

My sister & I were brought up exactly alike. But we are so different from each other. I am more of a go-getter and my sister doesn't give a ###### about most things. She went to uni (at the threat of getting disowned by my parents) for 6 years and dropped out when she was 2 units shy of getting her bachelors.

[Captain Oates 910]

No offense to you, Alan, but in general, I feel it is up to parents to teach the right/wrong way to approach life. I am not saying you skipped this, but in general, it does seem to be sorely lacking these days. My parents instilled a strong work ethic in me, but I see a lot of people whose parents failed to make them finish projects and work when they weren't going to school. I don't think that helps them in the long run, these people (who aren't kids anymore) seem unable to commit to employment, and tends to feel their employers are unreasonable in their demands for punctuality, attention to detail, etc. etc.

Nothing about you could ever be average.

But it has to be installable and even the best families have 'black sheep'

A woman who worked for me had 2 daughters. One was a model child and went to University and was happy and fulfilled.

The other was a prostitute for the Pakistanis in Bradford at £5 a go

Same parents, same household, identical upbringing.

That's why I reject the idea that it's my fault - and those parents whose kid turned out 'all right' should not assume it was a result of their efforts as it often seems to be down to other factors..

eg what about the prodigal son - what did his dad do wrong ?

Edited July 9, 2010 by saywhat

[Ban Hammer 12,839]

My daughter uses only cell phones at many times the cost of a landline and blew GBP 3k on a settee when her kids were tiny. It was wrecked in weeks. When I left for the US I gave her all my stuff. It's all either wrecked or sold for pennies or thrown on the tip. My professional aluminum house ladders were thrown on the tip.

what is "on the tip" above?

[Captain Oates 910]

what is "on the tip" above?

city dump I believe

I think it has something to do with a kids personality as well.

My sister & I were brought up exactly alike. But we are so different from each other. I am more of a go-getter and my sister doesn't give a ###### about most things. She went to uni (at the threat of getting disowned by my parents) for 6 years and dropped out when she was 2 units shy of getting her bachelors.

phew - glad it's not just my lot...

[ValerieA 350]

I think it has something to do with a kids personality as well.

My sister & I were brought up exactly alike. But we are so different from each other. I am more of a go-getter and my sister doesn't give a ###### about most things. She went to uni (at the threat of getting disowned by my parents) for 6 years and dropped out when she was 2 units shy of getting her bachelors.

I'd have shot her. 2 units? That's all?

BTW, I hold that just because 2 kids have the same parents, does not always mean they were raised the same.

However, I do concur that active parenting can not do 100% of the job, but without it, you will get nothing 95% of the time. Some kids overcome their parenting, too.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

My brother and I had identical upbringings. We were afforded many privileges that my parents really had to put themselves out for -- private schooling, music lessons, dancing lessons (for deb balls), French tutors, etc. My parents were NOT rich and I realised what an amazing opportunity I was being given. Every time I saw they were offering me something special, I ran with it. My brother on the other hand was obsessed with being "cool." As soon as he hit 15, he demanded to come home from boarding school and go to the local public school, which was a mess. He ended up not graduating from high school despite being absolutely brilliant because none of the administrators at the school caught that he was one credit shy of completion. This is while he was actually TEACHING his fellow students elective courses on history. He had to get his GED instead. He railed against me, saying I was given all the benefits, but it just wasn't true. I took advantage of things that he had rejected. There was a lot of jealousy on his side, as he saw me graduate from prep school, and a fancy uni, and grad school, and law school...

He managed to make something of himself in computers though, and he married and had two beautiful, brilliant sons. He wanted to do something with his life though, something bigger. Three years ago he was able to realise his dream of going back to university. He just graduated with a First from University College London in archaeology, and is now on the PhD track there. He'll be 42 this year and has 20+ years on some of his classmates but he doesn't care. He's happy at last, and I'm so proud of him I could burst.

[Nina~ 431]

But it has to be installable and even the best families have 'black sheep'

A woman who worked for me had 2 daughters. One was a model child and went to University and was happy and fulfilled.

The other was a prostitute for the Pakistanis in Bradford at £5 a go

Same parents, same household, identical upbringing.

That's why I reject the idea that it's my fault - and those parents whose kid turned out 'all right' should not assume it was a result of their efforts as it often seems to be down to other factors..

eg what about the prodigal son - what did his dad do wrong ?

I also get what Val is saying though. Sometimes, kids who are born in extreme poverty and are surrounded with druggies and ne'er-do-wells, often grow up with no hope of breaking out of the cycle and making a good life for themselves.

[Captain Oates 910]

My brother and I had identical upbringings. We were afforded many privileges that my parents really had to put themselves out for -- private schooling, music lessons, dancing lessons (for deb balls), French tutors, etc. My parents were NOT rich and I realised what

I thought that was the south african woman athlete who was accused of being a man

Edited July 9, 2010 by saywhat

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

I thought that was the south african woman athlete who was accused of being a man

You know what I mean, Alan. Feel free to take away one of my points. I never debbed myself, but I certainly went to enough of these travesties. I mean, it was New Haven! We don't have "society," we have pizza joints.

[Gemmie 142]

Well I think it has something to do with you to a certain extent because you've admittedly supported your son's business for years, even though he shows no intent on wising up and taking the responsibility himself. What would happen if you were to stop feeding him the money to fix his mistakes? As parents, you teach your children work ethic via chores, homework, rules, allowances, and working hard yourself.

Like you, I grew up in a council house and went to, literally, the worst school in my county. I left school with only one GCSE above grade C. My brother was exactly the same. Then all of a sudden, we completely went down different paths. I went to college, worked to get those grades needed, from the bottom. Then I got grants from the government to go to university where I was only allowed to take a two-year diploma course because of my awful qualifications, and I worked my way up to a Bachelor degree by proving myself through good grades. I worked summer jobs where I could to pay the bills. I have no debt other than my student loan. My brother is still working in the same retail store nine years later, has only just paid off his debt, is living in a council flat and is supporting his SO and son with welfare. He has no intentions of going to college, or getting a better job, or doing anything to better his life. Instead, he constantly acts like a victim and gets jealous of people that have a better standing in life.

Same household, same upbringing, same school, everything. We just had two very different mindsets. He really couldn't give a rats a$s what happens in his life beyond the next week. I'm always thinking of my future, what I want in a few months, and in a few years, and I put it into action. I have a deep annoyance of people that don't try for anything in life, and take every hand-out they can.

My grandfather's estate was settled a few weeks ago, and me and my brother were each given a few thousand GBP. Mine is going straight into a savings account so I can build interest and use it for something when I have a child. My brother has already decided that he's buying mountain bikes, a flat-screen TV, and toys for his baby. It's just the way he is, he doesn't have that *thing* for planning long-term.

[Nina~ 431]

I'd have shot her. 2 units? That's all?

What is worse is that she actually finished the project needed for that 2 unit class but got dropped from that class because she didnt pay the tuition. Her professor accepted her project anyway and told her to enroll next semester so that she can enter the grade in the system for her to graduate. And apparently my sister "just didn't feel like it" anymore.

Luckily, she married a wonderful guy who has his head screwed on right. He is encouraging her to to enroll in nursing school

[Gemmie 142]

He railed against me, saying I was given all the benefits, but it just wasn't true. I took advantage of things that he had rejected. There was a lot of jealousy on his side, as he saw me graduate from prep school, and a fancy uni, and grad school, and law school

Exactly. My brother was/is the same. He rejected the same things that I was offered, and to this day he claims that I was always the golden child that was "handed everything on a platter", which is just not true. Honestly, I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I do believe that there was a difference in intelligence levels as well. My brother has never been an academic person and isn't the smartest - but there are always options available for practical-minded people.

[Captain Oates 910]

I also get what Val is saying though. Sometimes, kids who are born in extreme poverty and are surrounded with druggies and ne'er-do-wells, often grow up with no hope of breaking out of the cycle and making a good life for themselves.

I often wonder about trying to find such a kid and give them a chance. I have thrown enough money away on my own kids.

I first set my son up in business in the UK. Two weeks later he sold it all and bought a nice car. Three weeks later he sold that and bought a mini for £25. Three hours after that it broke down and he abandoned it at the side of the road. My dad gave him a car the day after he passed his test. He got all his friends in and they drove to the seaside and got drunk. He was banned from driving 2 days after he passed his test and the car had a blown up engine and was scrapped.

Edited July 9, 2010 by saywhat

[Gemmie 142]

I first set my son up in business in the UK. Two weeks later he sold it all and bought a nice car. Three weeks later he sold that and bought a mini for £25. Three hours after that it broke down and he abandoned it at the side of the road. My dad gave him a car the day after he passed his test. He got all his friends in and they drove to the seaside and got drunk. He was banned from driving 2 days after he passed his test and the car had a blown up engine and was scrapped.

WOW.