Sharia Law Comes to Dearborn, Michigan?

[DukeOfYork 28]

Sofiyya,

Why didn't you address any of my points?

I know Muslims are under intense scrutiny. There is a small minority of Muslims (in the big picture) that contribute to making it harder for the rest of you. I understand that.

But please address the punishment for apostasy according to Sharia law and please also address the double-standard I keep harping about.

I've been to a Masjid, I've broken bread with Muslims, I've observed prayers and have participated in question and answer times. I have organized group visits of Christians going to our local mosque to learn more about your faith and build interfaith understanding. The Muslims in my town are quite moderate and I'm sure wouldn't kill or advocate the killing of anyone who converts. They might feel intense pressure not to do so, may be shunned by friends and family. But that happens. I left Mormonism at the age of 17. My dad didn't come to my baptism and I had a very difficult two years following that decision, so I know what that feels like, too.

Edited June 25, 2010 by DukeOfYork

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Address my points, why don't you? I'm not here just to be demanded of. I make point after point on thread after thread, and what I get back is demands to answer for charges made against other countries and lies about Sharia, something that no one here has an idea about. Does it ever occur to anyone that they don't know what they are talking about, that Sharia doesn't call for what they call for me to answer to? Apparently not.

There is a deep prejudice involved in presenting negatives about Islam and demanding answers. That is a form of scrutiny. Did you google for positive stories and articles like I asked? Probably not. Look at the title of this thread; it's a false accusation. More false accusations have been made in subsequent posts. My attempts to respond bring only more false accusations presented as fact and demands for explanations.

There has been nothing asked that I haven't answered before, but the answers are rejected. Why? Because it has already been decided that Muslims are useless unless they are explaining the cruelty their faith and co-religionists obviously condone. The approach is from negativity, not open-mindedness and a willingness to think that there could be something good about Islam. When that is not the approach, I'll be happy to respond.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think it's clear by now that it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion of these issues - without there being prejudice and derision. I'm surprised the moderators tolerate these topics really.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It would be better if they weren't filled with negative assumptions, negative accusations and "When did you stop beating your wife" type questions from folks who believe thnow all they need to to know about Islam and Muslims.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Sofiyya

[DukeOfYork 28]

Sofiyya,

I gave you the links you requested. You refuse to address them. I have addressed your points about intolerance toward Muslims, apparently you don't want to answer mine.

Edit: The death penalty for apostasy is indefensible. So it's understandable why you don't want to address the point. I quoted a source on this. So if you can say anything that will show me that the source is incorrect or my understanding is incorrect, I'd be happy to hear it.

Edited June 25, 2010 by DukeOfYork

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't have to defend it because it's not true. You come to the question with your mind made up that it is true. So, your self-righteousness about how I won't answer you when nothing other than what you ALREADY believe is a set up that I saw coming a mile away and won't bother to address.

As I said, I am happy to entertain open minded folks who haven't already decided that they have the answers. I'm not wasting time on that.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

PS - the reason why it is easy to find erroneous info about Sharia is because positive and correct info is so hard to find on the net where propoganda abounds.

[Golden Gate 530]

Sofiyya,

I gave you the links you requested. You refuse to address them. I have addressed your points about intolerance toward Muslims, apparently you don't want to answer mine.

Edit: The death penalty for apostasy is indefensible. So it's understandable why you don't want to address the point. I quoted a source on this. So if you can say anything that will show me that the source is incorrect or my understanding is incorrect, I'd be happy to hear it.

If you have questions and want answers, I can recommend a very good scholar - Edward Said. He can help you to understand a great deal that is hard for the layman to explain in a few sentences.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I hate to do this, I know you mean well, but the late Edward Said was not an Islamic scholar. He was an Arab Christian who championed Muslim causes, but he would not be a source for Sharia law or fiqh.

[Golden Gate 530]

I hate to do this, I know you mean well, but the late Edward Said was not an Islamic scholar. He was an Arab Christian who championed Muslim causes, but he would not be a source for Sharia law or fiqh.

Ah, ok. But, at least, he can provide more perspective on how the media and misinformation feeds all these misconceptions, which many people prefer to believe. Thanks for clarifying.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You're welcome. I realize that you're trying to understand, and I'll admit to feeling a bit hostile due to open season on Muslims here. The general scheme of things is to post some "Muslims & Islam are bad" criticism thread, then., pummel the second largest faith and its over one billion adherents as terrorists until proven innocent. Any attempt to bring some balance to the discussion is met with derision and more lies because of the poison the thread is meant to spread. That just gets old.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You're welcome. I realize that you're trying to understand, and I'll admit to feeling a bit hostile due to open season on Muslims here. The general scheme of things is to post some "Muslims & Islam are bad" criticism thread, then., pummel the second largest faith and its over one billion adherents as terrorists until proven innocent. Any attempt to bring some balance to the discussion is met with derision and more lies because of the poison the thread is meant to spread. That just gets old.

Sorry if I'm a little late to the party. So I always thought Sharia law was a perversion of Islam. I guess its not quite that black and white?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sorry if I'm a little late to the party. So I always thought Sharia law was a perversion of Islam. I guess its not quite that black and white?

In the simplest of explanation of a complex subject, Sharia is derived from directives in the Quran, which comprise about 10% of the text, and valid ahadith, the teachings and practices of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Sharia is considered to be divine and infallible, but also not totally discernable by humans.

Fiqh aka Islamic law, is what most laymen really mean when they refer to Sharia. Fiqh is the man-made law produced by scholars in legal opinions known as fatwas. Fatwas and tafsir are fallibleinterpretations of Sharia, and these interpretations vary about 25% across the Muslim world. Not any Muslim cam produce a legitimate fatwa, nor are all valid fatwas binding on all Muslims. Fiqh law is issued by scholars with licenses called ijaza, after they are earned through training in a particular school of jurisprudence known as a madhab. The Sunni have 4 major schools and several minor schools. The Shia have one major school.

The confusion among non-Muslims is rooted, in part, by the fact that reporting about Islam is done by people that have no real understanding of it, who present concepts incorrectly, and who use a lexicon that is biased and slanted in a way that only allows for negativity toward Islam. Another issue is that Islam cannot be summed up by cherry-picking verses anymore than the Bible or the Torah can be. Any observant Christian or Jew knows that context, history, linguistis, and cultural influences must be included when interpreting their holy texts. Yet, the Quran is not afforded the same courtesy in dialogue, and most of this dialogue is non-Muslim to non-Muslim, commonly consisting of errors and stereotypes.

I don't blame people for being confused or ignorant about Islam and Islamic law, but I do blame those who insist on their ignorance. They are just intellectually lazy and looking for a fight.

[ErikaAndHamit 73]

I am very impressed by your points Sofiyya. You are 100% correct and know your stuff. Your "travel log" pictures are proof positive that Christianity is alive and well in most Muslim countries and I think the others were genuinely surprised by the visual. The photos alone says A LOT. They really are trying to start a fight and ignore the truth. What they fail to understand that most Muslims wouldn't convert "free" or otherwise. Anyhow, I hate coming across threads like this about various topics, not just religion, where people twist and turn things and make everything ugly.

Edited June 27, 2010 by ErikaAndHamit

[Nagishkaw 510]

I am very impressed by your points Sofiyya. You are 100% correct and know your stuff. Your "travel log" pictures are proof positive that Christianity is alive and well in most Muslim countries and I think the others were genuinely surprised by the visual. The photos alone says A LOT. They really are trying to start a fight and ignore the truth. What they fail to understand that most Muslims wouldn't convert "free" or otherwise. Anyhow, I hate coming across threads like this about various topics, not just religion, where people twist and turn things and make everything ugly.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Nagishkaw