Dual Citizenship

[gthf 0]

My wife is a US permanent resident and Ukraine citizen. We can apply for US citizenship this September. US recognizes dual citizenship, but it appears Ukraine doesn't (recognizes just Ukraine citizenship). Although it seems neither country requires a person to give up the other countries citizenship. Person travels with 2 passports? My question is does anyone have experience with this (is a Ukraine and US citizen) and has traveled from US to Ukraine? Or a dual citizen with other 2 countries and has traveled to both countries? I need to contact the Ukraine Embassy in US or Kiev to get more information? Thanks.

[v333k 59]

My wife is a US permanent resident and Ukraine citizen. We can apply for US citizenship this September. US recognizes dual citizenship, but it appears Ukraine doesn't (recognizes just Ukraine citizenship). Although it seems neither country requires a person to give up the other countries citizenship. Person travels with 2 passports? My question is does anyone have experience with this (is a Ukraine and US citizen) and has traveled from US to Ukraine? Or a dual citizen with other 2 countries and has traveled to both countries? I need to contact the Ukraine Embassy in US or Kiev to get more information? Thanks.

The US doesn't recognize other citizenships either. Once a US citizen, you are only a US citizen....

[a&o 4]

You can maintain citizenship with another country, but according to the US, if you're a US citizen, you're a US citizen (not a dual citizen), so you'll always have to file taxes with the IRS.

[gthf 0]

Please no replies from anyone other than current dual citizens. I know that if a person was born in a foreign country they can retain that citizenship after becoming a US naturalized citizen. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

I know about filing taxes in US and many other things since I've done the immigration process myself and have multiple college degrees, have a job, etc.

Actually once a person is a US resident they need to file taxes for any job in the US. Citizenship makes no difference.

What I want to know is the experience of dual citizens traveling, especially those that were born in Ukraine and a naturalized US citizen.

Otherwise please don't post a reply.

Thanks.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Please no replies from anyone other than current dual citizens. I know that if a person was born in a foreign country they can retain that citizenship after becoming a US naturalized citizen. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

I know about filing taxes in US and many other things since I've done the immigration process myself and have multiple college degrees, have a job, etc.

Actually once a person is a US resident they need to file taxes for any job in the US. Citizenship makes no difference.

What I want to know is the experience of dual citizens traveling, especially those that were born in Ukraine and a naturalized US citizen.

Otherwise please don't post a reply.

Thanks.

You have some misconceptions. You can ignore my reply as I am not a dual citizen or you can learn. Your choice.

The US does not recognze dual citizenship, nor dooes it forbid "dual" (or triple or quadruple) citizenship. Yes, you can keep your foreign citizenship as far as the US is concerned, they simply do not care.

Ukraine specifically DOES NOT allow dual citizenship. It is illegal. Ukraine requires that you surrender your Ukrainian citizenship to become a US citizen. Ukraine also has no way to enforce this and the US doesn't tell them. Although Alla is not a dual citizen yet, we know several people that "are". Or at least have two passports. When entering countries like Ukraine which do not require visas for US citizens, they typically use their US passport. When entering a country like Russia, they use the Ukrainian passport. They re-new their Ukrainian passporst IN UKRAINE while visiting Ukraine. They make no mention that they are US citizens also. They present their UNexpired Ukraine passport and Ukraine birth certificate. DO NOT allow your Ukraine passport to expire for ease of renewal. You can renew it UP TO two years before it expires, so you do no thave to specifically "time" a visit to renew the passport.

The main advantage of keeping both (and we intend to) is for ease of travel in Russia and former Soviet states it is a good idea and also because if anything ever happens to me, Alla can have a choice, stay here or return to Ukraine with no hassles whatsoever.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Please no replies from anyone other than current dual citizens. I know that if a person was born in a foreign country they can retain that citizenship after becoming a US naturalized citizen. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

I know about filing taxes in US and many other things since I've done the immigration process myself and have multiple college degrees, have a job, etc.

Actually once a person is a US resident they need to file taxes for any job in the US. Citizenship makes no difference.

What I want to know is the experience of dual citizens traveling, especially those that were born in Ukraine and a naturalized US citizen.

Otherwise please don't post a reply.

Thanks.

You are also wrong about citizenship making no difference on taxes...not withstanding your college degree (which is not in tax law)

A US citizen is required to file taxes wherever he earns his money, foreign or otherwise, regardless of how long he is out of the country, regardless where he makes his money. A resident is not, they will simply lose their residency.

Filing taxes and paying taxes is not the same thing and you may earn quite a bit of money overseas TAX FREE but you still have to file the appropriate tax forms every year. If you do not, you, as a citizen, are subject to criminal penalties. Not the subject of your question really, and I doubt you care, but if one is going take an uppity attitude with people trying to help him, then one ought to at least be correct. So far, you have been off base on most of what you "know".

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

You have some misconceptions. You can ignore my reply as I am not a dual citizen or you can learn. Your choice.

The US does not recognze dual citizenship, nor dooes it forbid "dual" (or triple or quadruple) citizenship. Yes, you can keep your foreign citizenship as far as the US is concerned, they simply do not care.

Ukraine specifically DOES NOT allow dual citizenship. It is illegal. Ukraine requires that you surrender your Ukrainian citizenship to become a US citizen. Ukraine also has no way to enforce this and the US doesn't tell them. Although Alla is not a dual citizen yet, we know several people that "are". Or at least have two passports. When entering countries like Ukraine which do not require visas for US citizens, they typically use their US passport. When entering a country like Russia, they use the Ukrainian passport. They re-new their Ukrainian passporst IN UKRAINE while visiting Ukraine. They make no mention that they are US citizens also. They present their UNexpired Ukraine passport and Ukraine birth certificate. DO NOT allow your Ukraine passport to expire for ease of renewal. You can renew it UP TO two years before it expires, so you do no thave to specifically "time" a visit to renew the passport.

The main advantage of keeping both (and we intend to) is for ease of travel in Russia and former Soviet states it is a good idea and also because if anything ever happens to me, Alla can have a choice, stay here or return to Ukraine with no hassles whatsoever.

Ok, I'm a current "dual" citizen (or I should better say a citizen of 2 countries simultaneously) and I must say that "Gary and Alla" is right on all counts.

This is exactly the way US views your citizenship. US certianly DOES NOT recognize dual citizenship and only views a US citizen as a US citizen. In fact, technically, you are required to renouce your previous citzenships when becoming a US citizen, and you do so when you say your Naturalization Oath. The only reason that you are able to keep other citizenships is due to the fact that your other country of citizenship doesn't recognize your Oath as a renounciation of their citizenship (i.e. they have a different official procedure for that) and US State Department doesn't hold this inconsistancy against you.

It didn't always used to be like that. Back in 80s, people were threatened by US CBP agents that their US citizenship will be revoked if they keep using their other passport for travel and don't take proactive steps to renounce their previous citizenship. Evidently, it still happens every now and then, but becoming rare. So don't get all cocky about your "dual" citizenship - it's not really dual and the only reason you can keep both is because the law on the books is simply not enforced.

I cannot attest to Ukrainian law, but judging by "Gary and Alla" competency in everything else, I have no reason to doubt what they said. As for the Russian law, it treats "dual" citizenship in the same exact fashion as the US. It doesn't officialy recognize dual citizenship, but unlike Ukraine doesn't prohibit it either. They do however, much like the US, recognize the possibity of having more than one citizenship, hence the related question on Russian passport application and certain laws that prevent people from taking certain elected positions if they have more than one citizenship.

Russia, just like the US, views you ONLY as a Russian citizen, and therefore, will not issue you a Russian visa into your American passport and recognize your American citizenship in any way. However, since while both countries require you to use their respective passports to travel in and out of the country, while not prohibiting such practice, I do travel to and from Russia with both passports.

The process is the following:

- Leaving the US - present both passports at check in and Russian passport at boarding

- Entering Russia - present Russian passport at the border

- Leaving Russia - present both passports at check in, Russian passport at the border and US passport at boarding

- Entering US - present US passport at the border

Did it once and haven't had any issues, even though it's slightly confusing.

Another thing is that since having 2 citizenships isn't prohibited, I can also legally renew my Russian passport in the US, through Russian embassy. The process is long (6 months+, compared to 1 month in Russia) and painful (you have to be physically present at the Embassy/Consulate - not a big deal for me, living 25 miles from Washington DC - but if you are in rural Montana, it might cost you time and money) , but it's possible. I even submit a copy of my US passport as a proof of my legal presence in the US to Russian embassy.

[v333k 59]

Please no replies from anyone other than current dual citizens. I know that if a person was born in a foreign country they can retain that citizenship after becoming a US naturalized citizen. http://travel.state....s/cis_1753.html

I know about filing taxes in US and many other things since I've done the immigration process myself and have multiple college degrees, have a job, etc.

Actually once a person is a US resident they need to file taxes for any job in the US. Citizenship makes no difference.

What I want to know is the experience of dual citizens traveling, especially those that were born in Ukraine and a naturalized US citizen.

Otherwise please don't post a reply.

Thanks.

We are only trying to tell you what we know, whether we are dual citizens or not. This is general knowledge and different countries handle citizenship differently. Some countries do not recognize dual citizenship and demand you surrender your citizenship with them if you obtain another citizenship with another. Other countries don't care while other demand you retain your citizenship, even if you try to denounce it.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I do not want to repeat what Gary said. He covered the basics. Yet I want to make another point.

For the US every US citizen is a US citizen. The US recognizes the inherent problems with US citizens holding another citizenship and thus the US State Department speaks out against it.

Some citizens automatically lose their original citizenship when becoming US citizens. Among them are Denmark, Japan, India, and the Ukraine. What that means is the moment you become a US citizen, you are not a Ukrainian citizen anymore.

Now let's play the fun game, shall we?

If you are a Ukrainian citizen and try to enter the United States with a US passport which is invalid because the US Government determined it is, you are in deep, deep sh*t. Basically, you tried to enter illegally, using fake documentation. Would you agree that the Ukrainian Government might see this the same way?

On a related note, Germans automatically lose their original citizenship when becoming US citizens, unless they have applied for permission of the German Government. Since the US Government and the German Government do not communicate with one another, some Germans still use their old passport when traveling to Europe. They renew it in Germany every 10 years, so nobody knows.

So did a friend of mine. He became a USC before 2000 (when this law was introduced), has property in the US and in Germany, and all of his family lives there. Last year, when arriving at the P.O.E. in Germany he was detained. They told him: you are not a German citizen anymore. You are under arrest. He had to face trial, got 3 months and was ordered deported with a lifetime ban. That's right, can can't ever visit his old country again.

Know what you are doing, and know the possible consequences.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Just Bob

[NickD 202]

No such thing as dual citizenship in the USA, and showing allegiance to any other country can be a denial of your naturalization. The Department of State however, with a head looking the other way, does permit dual nationality, with the bottom line being, where you were born, something that none of had any control over. If that country insists you have their own passport to enter, then its okay to get that passport. If they do not require a passport to enter, but you obtain one anyway, your allegiance to this country will be questioned. Well, you have to get caught first.

DOS certainly doesn't help this issue by putting your place of birth on your US passport, if you attempt to enter that country you were born in, entry can be denied until you obtain a passport of that country. Can be rather inconvenient living in the USA where there may only be 1-3 consulates from coast to coast, and most want you to apply in person. Ironically, a US citizen with a US passport can enter many countries without a visa, where if you have relatives living there and they want to visit you here, may be next impossible to obtain a US visa to come here.

We as immigrants or spouses of immigrants that were naturalized, tend to be very narrow minded on this subject and just think about family. Whereas the government, thought we were the government, but another misnomer, tends to be very political and treats each of the 200 some odd different countries in a different way. DOS has a very extensive website on this subject with each country listed. A good place to start to get answers to your questions. Every country is different, can only wonder who dreamed all this stuff up and for what reason.

And my wife is NOT a US citizen just like she was born here.

[BlueBonnet 84]

Im not exactly sure what the OP is looking for, but Im not sure hes getting his answers.

Im not dual, but Ill give you what I know.

I know a person who is dual Canadian/Polish. He carries both passports. From Poland, he is required by law to do x amount of years in the military. He must do this as he is a citizen. When he travels to Poland, he uses his Polish passport. When he travels anywhere else, he uses his Canadian Passport. He can give up his polish citizenship and he wont be required to put in his years into their military.

I also know alot of British/Canadian duals, and US/Canadian duals. When they go to the USA they use there American passport, when they come back to Canada, they enter back in on there Canadian.

Now, to my understanding, border guards dont like this, and I believe it is illigal to carry 2 passports. But when entering your own country ... ie: going to canada with canadian passport, they cannot deny you entry into your own county, and when going to the USA using the USA passport, again they cannot deny you entry into your own country.

When carrying dual citizenship, it is up to the citizen to reconise both countries laws. This is why USA doesnt like dual. It can be very confusing.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok, I'm a current "dual" citizen (or I should better say a citizen of 2 countries simultaneously) and I must say that "Gary and Alla" is right on all counts.

This is exactly the way US views your citizenship. US certianly DOES NOT recognize dual citizenship and only views a US citizen as a US citizen. In fact, technically, you are required to renouce your previous citzenships when becoming a US citizen, and you do so when you say your Naturalization Oath. The only reason that you are able to keep other citizenships is due to the fact that your other country of citizenship doesn't recognize your Oath as a renounciation of their citizenship (i.e. they have a different official procedure for that) and US State Department doesn't hold this inconsistancy against you.

It didn't always used to be like that. Back in 80s, people were threatened by US CBP agents that their US citizenship will be revoked if they keep using their other passport for travel and don't take proactive steps to renounce their previous citizenship. Evidently, it still happens every now and then, but becoming rare. So don't get all cocky about your "dual" citizenship - it's not really dual and the only reason you can keep both is because the law on the books is simply not enforced.

I cannot attest to Ukrainian law, but judging by "Gary and Alla" competency in everything else, I have no reason to doubt what they said. As for the Russian law, it treats "dual" citizenship in the same exact fashion as the US. It doesn't officialy recognize dual citizenship, but unlike Ukraine doesn't prohibit it either. They do however, much like the US, recognize the possibity of having more than one citizenship, hence the related question on Russian passport application and certain laws that prevent people from taking certain elected positions if they have more than one citizenship.

Russia, just like the US, views you ONLY as a Russian citizen, and therefore, will not issue you a Russian visa into your American passport and recognize your American citizenship in any way. However, since while both countries require you to use their respective passports to travel in and out of the country, while not prohibiting such practice, I do travel to and from Russia with both passports.

The process is the following:

- Leaving the US - present both passports at check in and Russian passport at boarding

- Entering Russia - present Russian passport at the border

- Leaving Russia - present both passports at check in, Russian passport at the border and US passport at boarding

- Entering US - present US passport at the border

Did it once and haven't had any issues, even though it's slightly confusing.

Another thing is that since having 2 citizenships isn't prohibited, I can also legally renew my Russian passport in the US, through Russian embassy. The process is long (6 months+, compared to 1 month in Russia) and painful (you have to be physically present at the Embassy/Consulate - not a big deal for me, living 25 miles from Washington DC - but if you are in rural Montana, it might cost you time and money) , but it's possible. I even submit a copy of my US passport as a proof of my legal presence in the US to Russian embassy.

You can renew your Russian passport here because Russia does no tprohibit dual citizenship with the United States. Ukraine does. Ukrainians wishing to keep both passports in violation of UKRAINIAN law, need to renew their Ukrainian passports in Ukraine and keep their mouths shut.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I do not want to repeat what Gary said. He covered the basics. Yet I want to make another point.

For the US every US citizen is a US citizen. The US recognizes the inherent problems with US citizens holding another citizenship and thus the US State Department speaks out against it.

Some citizens automatically lose their original citizenship when becoming US citizens. Among them are Denmark, Japan, India, and the Ukraine. What that means is the moment you become a US citizen, you are not a Ukrainian citizen anymore.

Now let's play the fun game, shall we?

If you are a Ukrainian citizen and try to enter the United States with a US passport which is invalid because the US Government determined it is, you are in deep, deep sh*t. Basically, you tried to enter illegally, using fake documentation. Would you agree that the Ukrainian Government might see this the same way?

On a related note, Germans automatically lose their original citizenship when becoming US citizens, unless they have applied for permission of the German Government. Since the US Government and the German Government do not communicate with one another, some Germans still use their old passport when traveling to Europe. They renew it in Germany every 10 years, so nobody knows.

So did a friend of mine. He became a USC before 2000 (when this law was introduced), has property in the US and in Germany, and all of his family lives there. Last year, when arriving at the P.O.E. in Germany he was detained. They told him: you are not a German citizen anymore. You are under arrest. He had to face trial, got 3 months and was ordered deported with a lifetime ban. That's right, can can't ever visit his old country again.

Know what you are doing, and know the possible consequences.

The consequences, as you suggest Bob, can be serious. Ukraine is quite strict in not allowing dual citizenship with ANYone. But for a US citizen with both passports there woul dbe no reason to show the Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine, Ukraine does not require US citizens to have a visa, so why show that? You are a US citizen at the border in Ukraine. IF they want to go to Russia, OR if, for example their US citizen spouse dies and they want to return to Ukraine, just go. Bury the US passport in the sock drawer and be happy. Just mail in your tax return every year and you are good to go.

The key with Ukraine is KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT and do not use the Ukrainian passport to enter or leave UKRAINE

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

Im not exactly sure what the OP is looking for, but Im not sure hes getting his answers.

Im not dual, but Ill give you what I know.

I know a person who is dual Canadian/Polish. He carries both passports. From Poland, he is required by law to do x amount of years in the military. He must do this as he is a citizen. When he travels to Poland, he uses his Polish passport. When he travels anywhere else, he uses his Canadian Passport. He can give up his polish citizenship and he wont be required to put in his years into their military.

I also know alot of British/Canadian duals, and US/Canadian duals. When they go to the USA they use there American passport, when they come back to Canada, they enter back in on there Canadian.

Now, to my understanding, border guards dont like this, and I believe it is illigal to carry 2 passports. But when entering your own country ... ie: going to canada with canadian passport, they cannot deny you entry into your own county, and when going to the USA using the USA passport, again they cannot deny you entry into your own country.

When carrying dual citizenship, it is up to the citizen to reconise both countries laws. This is why USA doesnt like dual. It can be very confusing.

Are you reading what others posted above? Then why are you posting obviously incorrect things?

1) There is NO dual citizenship with the US. NONE. Just becasue you have another passport and another citizenship and US State Department doesn't care, does't make it dual citizenship

2) No, it is generally NOT illegal to carry multiple passports as long as they are legally issued to you.

3) It is however illegal in most countries (not in all, but for sure it is illegal in the US) for a citizen to enter on any other passport than the one issued by this country. They let you in the US on your US passport, even if you have the canadian one in the other hand, not because "they have no choice, it's your country", but because that is exactly how you are supposed to do it.

To sum it all up. US ALWAYS views any US citizen as ONLY a US citizen and doesn't recognize any other citizenships s/he may have. US also requires you to renounce your previous citizenships when becming a US citizen - read the text of Naturalization Oath. Hence, there is no dual citizenship.

However, since other countries' laws and procedures in regard to renouncing one's citizenship vary vastly, placing undue hardships on the person, up to sheer impossibility of doing that, State Department doesn't seek and punish those who didn't take any further steps to renounce their original citizenship. However, people who ACTIVELY SEEK retention or restoration of their original citizenship are already entering a grey zone. If wind changes and US State Dept decides to strictly enforce laws that are already on the books, these people might have their US citizenship revoked.

This is how US views it. How your other country (ies) of citizenship look at it, is a whole different question. Answers to this question vary from "don't give a sh!t, have as many citizenship as you want" to "just say a word of allegiance to another country and your birth citizenship is gone". As we just saw, Ukraine and Russia whos laws and heritage are largely similar and who used to be the same country 20 years ago, have a very different approach to this issue. Know the laws of the country if you hold it's passport - that's the best advice.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

You can renew your Russian passport here because Russia does no tprohibit dual citizenship with the United States. Ukraine does. Ukrainians wishing to keep both passports in violation of UKRAINIAN law, need to renew their Ukrainian passports in Ukraine and keep their mouths shut.

I know that and you are absolutely right and that is exactly what I said. Not arguing with you - as I said you got it 100% right - I'm arguing with some less knowledgeble people here who are trying to misinform others.