Swine Flu: What the Hell Happened?

[Fandango 1,439]

He just faked it to get you to stop talking about that damn birth certificate

All the doctors were in on it too!

a majority don't need to get it. the more inoculated people, the slower the virus can propagate. like all viruses, it has a lifespan and if it can't move from one host to another within it, it dies.

He's just as much interested in that as I am

[PhiLandShiR 18]

Ok, let's do simple mathmatics (though this isn't actual dispersement, just making a point).

Less than 13,000 US deaths from H1N1. Let's round up and use 13,000 for math purposes though.

We have 50 states. -- 13,000 / 50 = 260 deaths per state.

The US Population is roughly getting close to 310,000,000 people.

13,000 / 310,000,000 = 1 in 23,850 people in the nation who died from this disease. Compared in 1 in 5,500 that die in the US from the seasonal flu/pneumonia (based on 56,000 deaths) every year.

My point is, things aren't as "big" as they are made out to be. Figuring the majority of people have yet to get a "H1N1" shot and only about half the population take the time to get a seasonal flu shot (and many still get sick and die anyway), then it's not as 'big' as some like to freak out about...

You did not incude in your numbers those who got the shots and thus did not get the flu...

Any number of those, from none to all, would need to be accounted for. I mantain that all would have gotten it, so that skews your number up a bit if you add in the 30 million who got the shots...

[Empress of Groovy 373]

I highly doubt your grandmother was 100% healthy otherwise either.

As I said, I'm not making light of those who suffered or who had it impact their lives directly with a family member/themselves (hell, someone here at my office got it).

All I'm saying it statistically and in comparison with the seasonal flu (symptoms and all) it's a weak counter-part with the exception of the fact it's contagious for a couple of more days than the seasonal flu is.

It was also more dangerous for younger people (including young adults) than the typical seasonal flu, hence the comparisons to the 1918 outbreak.

It certainly could have been much worse. I don't know if a detailed study has yet been carried out linking the precautions taken (closing schools, canceling events) and large-scale immunizations to the relatively small number of deaths, but I'd research this before declaring that the whole thing was based on hysteria. It's certainly easy to look back now and say, "Gee, what was everyone so concerned about?"

Unfortunately, as anyone in public health can tell you, in determining how to handle outbreaks, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Imagine if the WHO and governments had been slow to act, and this did turn out to be a devastating worldwide pandemic.

It only took me getting the flu once 10 years ago to encourage me to get a shot every year. I'm a pretty healthy person but it knocked me on my a$$ for nearly two weeks. I'm always a little surprised when people say, "I've never had the flu, therefore I'm not going to get the shot." As if not having had the flu means you're never going to get it. I do get that some people are concerned about side effects, allergies, reactions, etc., or question the efficacy of the shot. But the "I never get sick, why bother?" position just seems silly. For the record, I did get the H1N1 shot when it became available to the general public & had absolutely no ill effects from it.

[Fandango 1,439]

Ok, let's do simple mathmatics (though this isn't actual dispersement, just making a point).

Less than 13,000 US deaths from H1N1. Let's round up and use 13,000 for math purposes though.

We have 50 states. -- 13,000 / 50 = 260 deaths per state.

The US Population is roughly getting close to 310,000,000 people.

13,000 / 310,000,000 = 1 in 23,850 people in the nation who died from this disease. Compared in 1 in 5,500 that die in the US from the seasonal flu/pneumonia (based on 56,000 deaths) every year.

My point is, things aren't as "big" as they are made out to be. Figuring the majority of people have yet to get a "H1N1" shot and only about half the population take the time to get a seasonal flu shot (and many still get sick and die anyway), then it's not as 'big' as some like to freak out about...

I think peeps are missing this point. It's getting lost in the way you say it, but when it boils down to numbers, I do see what you're talking about.

However, you have to also take into account how many people actually went and got the vaccine. That could have prevented tens of thousands of deaths. So maybe the 'unnecc hysteria' wasn't so unnecc...yanno?

[PhiLandShiR 18]

I think peeps are missing this point. It's getting lost in the way you say it, but when it boils down to numbers, I do see what you're talking about.

However, you have to also take into account how many people actually went and got the vaccine. That could have prevented tens of thousands of deaths. So maybe the 'unnecc hysteria' wasn't so unnecc...yanno?

He writes it that way to hide the point.

He never wants to account for the millions who got the shots. Each one of those needs to be placed on the dead list then he needs to run his numbers bu I bet that won't happen.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

He writes it that way to hide the point.

He never wants to account for the millions who got the shots. Each one of those needs to be placed on the dead list then he needs to run his numbers bu I bet that won't happen.

I go by the available statistics.

Another statistic unavailable are those who get the shots and still get the influenza OR those who obtain some other complications from the vaccine.

There's plenty to play with there.

If you want to go with another statistic, of the estimated 60 million who did get H1N1, about 1 in 5,000 died from it based on the 'stats.' -- Now compare to that to the same number annually who get the regular influenza/pneumonia - that's 1 in 1100 that die from it.

I would be more than happy to do a full breakdown, if full data were available. Certain things don't get reported (and the CDC is notorious for 'leaving out' data where any vaccinations harm people).

[PhiLandShiR 18]

If you want to go with another statistic, of the estimated 60 million who did get H1N1, about 1 in 5,000 died from it based on the 'stats.' -- Now compare to that to the same number annually who get the regular influenza/pneumonia - that's 1 in 1100 that die from it.

You keep forgetting to add in the 30 million who got the shots. That changes your math a bit from one in 1000 to about one out of 2... or 50%

60 million who got it and the 30 million who died.

I maintain all 30 million who got the shots were from the at risk population an so would have died if they had gotten H1N1 but because of the shots they lived.

Edited April 26, 2010 by PhiLandShiR

[bakofoil 27]

I go by the available statistics.

Another statistic unavailable are those who get the shots and still get the influenza OR those who obtain some other complications from the vaccine.

There's plenty to play with there.

If you want to go with another statistic, of the estimated 60 million who did get H1N1, about 1 in 5,000 died from it based on the 'stats.' -- Now compare to that to the same number annually who get the regular influenza/pneumonia - that's 1 in 1100 that die from it.

I would be more than happy to do a full breakdown, if full data were available. Certain things don't get reported (and the CDC is notorious for 'leaving out' data where any vaccinations harm people).

I don't have a problem with you quoting statistics and am not missing any point in the comparisons you make based on available data. However, if you do want to make the point, as you did earlier in the thread, that H1N1 deaths are largely insignificant and the virus as a whole was a big inconvenience and meaningless hype then you might also say that flu shots are a waste of time and influenza deaths are minimal statistically speaking. According to the CDC, 28% of annual deaths are caused by cardiac disease as opposed to 2.7% from pneumonia and influenza. It would, of course, be ridiculous to make any comparison between a virus and a disease but certainly, statistically speaking, influenza accounts for much fewer deaths. You are more likely to die from an accident than from influenza but that is not to say that an influenza death is insignificant. Another factor here is that there are many different strains of influenza so any comparison of influenza to H1N1 is comparing one a whole group of people to one isolated person. Such generalisms are difficult to avoid.

Incidentally, my mother-in-law's cause of death was recorded as "Pneumonia complicated by contraction of the H1N1 virus" so her death would be recorded by the CDC in the 'influenza and pneumonia' bracket rather than as a separate entry for H1N1.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

While I think that this whole H1N1 primarily made for good news headlines and fat profits for the pharma industry, I did take my daughter in for the shots. It's what her doctor recommended and when the health of my child is concerned, I do listen to the pediatrician. She knows better than I do.

[SuperDuper! 230]

While I think that this whole H1N1 primarily made for good news headlines and fat profits for the pharma industry, I did take my daughter in for the shots. It's what her doctor recommended and when the health of my child is concerned, I do listen to the pediatrician. She knows better than I do.

My friend did NOT get his dtr vaccinated with H1N1 because of the conspiracy theory that it is designed to make females infertile. The population control crazies, ya know.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/farrakhan-says-h1n1-vaccine-is-tool-of-depopulation.html

[Beth and John 7]

My at the time 8-year-old daughter got it - she was very ill for well over a week. One of my good friend's husband just completed a 10 day hospital stay due to complications from h1n1. It's not a joke. I hope if you chose to not be vaccinated that you do not get it.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Efforts to assess the severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic sometimes compare numbers of confirmed deaths with those estimated for seasonal influenza, either nationally or worldwide. Such comparisons are not reliable for several reasons and can be misleading.

As pandemic influenza mimics the signs and symptoms of many common infectious diseases, doctors often do not suspect H1N1 infection and do not test. This is especially true in developing countries, where deaths from respiratory diseases, including pneumonia, are common occurrences. Moreover, routine testing for pandemic influenza is costly and demanding, and beyond the reach of most countries.

When testing confirms H1N1 infection in patients with underlying medical conditions, many doctors record these deaths as due to the medical condition, and not to the pandemic virus. These cases are also missed in official statistics. http://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/notes/briefing_20091222/en/index.html

i'm also puzzled at the fixation on statistics just dealing with death in regards to the pandemic being all "hype". 2009 h1n1 cost A LOT of money. sick days, dr visits, hospitalizations- even when no one died, many expenses were incurred. there have been a few studies done that concluded that the cost of immunization was worth it, compared to expenses incurred when non-immunized people contracted the virus. 2010's flu vaccine is also supposed to be a combo, combining seasonal with h1n1.

[besaangel 17]

You did not incude in your numbers those who got the shots and thus did not get the flu...

Any number of those, from none to all, would need to be accounted for. I mantain that all would have gotten it, so that skews your number up a bit if you add in the 30 million who got the shots...

Nor did he bother to include the fact that most people who died from H1N1, died from taking the vaccine. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2332570/possible_h1n1_vaccine_deaths_whats.html?cat=5

Most Doctors and nurses that I knew, gave the vaccine but never took it. I wonder why?

I like this quote too "2009 H1N1 deaths have occurred with the greatest frequency in people between the ages of 50 and 64; 80 percent of whom have had an underlying health condition. Health conditions that increase the risk of being hospitalized from 2009 H1N1 include lung disease, like asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), diabetes, heart, or neurologic disease, and pregnancy."

Edited April 28, 2010 by besaangel

[PhiLandShiR 18]

While I think that this whole H1N1 primarily made for good news headlines and fat profits for the pharma industry, I did take my daughter in for the shots. It's what her doctor recommended and when the health of my child is concerned, I do listen to the pediatrician. She knows better than I do.

All of the shots in my area were given away for free... where is this fat profit you speak of....

Nor did he bother to include the fact that most people who died from H1N1, died from taking the vaccine. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2332570/possible_h1n1_vaccine_deaths_whats.html?cat=5

No one in my area died BECAUSE of the vaccine... Your article shows only 4 people and none of them in the US...

Edited April 28, 2010 by PhiLandShiR

[ScottThuy 140]

those shots were free to the citizens from the US govt.. The govt paid Pharma to make them