If you have an accent

[mox 298]

the problem with this Mox, and I have considered it, is that it requires "due process" to put someone in jail. We don;tnedd to mess with that. Make it LEGAL to hire an illegal immigrant but TAX it to a point that causes financial ruin if you do so. The due process required to enforce a tax and apply a tax lein is SO much less burdensome, it just happens without you even knowing it until you get the notice from the IRS.

One of the reasons our tax code is such a mess is because people have played games like this in the past. I fully support the notion that if you are in this country illegally, then you are a criminal. Therefore, if you knowingly hire a criminal, you are complicit.

My parents who are on a fixed income and live right at the poverty line have just received notice that they will be audited. This is the fifth time they've been audited in the last 15 years. Let's give the IRS something with a little more substance than an old couple on a fixed income to sink their teeth into.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Er.. at the relatively high risk of throwing gas on the fire... Why is it only the businesses that need to be policed? How does a peace officer tell between a legal guest worker, an illegal alien, and a drug dealer just by looking? Why can't police check i.d.s on folks where there is cause, and take into custody those with false documents, or no documents? Why can't we scrutinize and regulate who comes into the country - like every other government does?

Now, while some of you are in the cage warming up for your at bat, I am not advocating any sort of profiling at all. Things like Tarry searches are already a matter of law for all, and no trouoble with the 4th Amendment. No stretch taking a look at the vehicle, a person in it, or a person without a vehicle, if documents don't look right or there aren't any. Watching the b1tchslapping festival going on here got me to thinking - when is the last time I was out and about without ID (grade school I think), and would I have a problem at all showing it to a cop for any reason (no). Missing something maybe, but I just don't see the huge problem some of you do, and the issue with the request for ID is far outweighed by security and border integrity in my mind.

I do not advocate ONLY businesses, Brad. But they are the economic engine that drive an economic incentive. No jobs, no need to come. we also need to enforce existing laws about welfare, school attendance and NOW (thanks to our liberal friends in congress) medical care. One of the concessions they made to ram through the health care reform was the specific exclusion of illegal aliens.

ID checks are, at best, closing the barn door after the horse escapes. Besides, the local cops have no authority to deport, so when they catch and illegal, what happens? They get turned over to ICE, who lets them go with a court date they will never attend. I say just allow them to "self-deport" when there is no reason to stay and stay out since there is no reason to come. There is no penalty to business at all if they do not hire illegals. YES, their costs will increase because they will no longer be able to exploit humans for their own profit...cry me a river. YES we will pay higher prices for roof work, lettuce and restaraunt meals because now they have to pay someone minimum wage to wash dishes. But that is what we want, right? That is what we voted for with all these payroll taxes and worker protections, right? we will gladly pay the higher cost to be rid of the illegals that suck up our tax dollars, right? On the PLUS side, our taxes will go DOWN since we will no longer be paying for all the illegal alines benefits....right?

[jimnlena 8]

On the PLUS side, our taxes will go DOWN since we will no longer be paying for all the illegal alines benefits....right?

Taxes go down Thanks I needed that laugh!

[LvivLovers 39]

Anyone who knowingly hires an illegal alien, rents to them, etc. ought to pay huge fines and/or do jail time. Period.

But the fact is, we don't enforce immigration laws because many in the government WANT the illegals here for cheap labor and potential future voters.

And what the hell is up with the law saying if someone is born on U.S. soil they are automatically a citizen? That's like saying if someone breaks into your house and squeezes out a kid that they have the right to stay. Talk about stupid.

[mox 298]

And what the hell is up with the law saying if someone is born on U.S. soil they are automatically a citizen? That's like saying if someone breaks into your house and squeezes out a kid that they have the right to stay. Talk about stupid.

That would be our 14th amendment to the Constitution.

Section 1 of the 14th amendment reads: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[LvivLovers 39]

That would be our 14th amendment to the Constitution.

Section 1 of the 14th amendment reads: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That's the one. Bad idea. Very bad idea! I'm sure they had other well-intentioned reasons in mind, but they should have used a little more fore-thought to understand the possible consequences of this wording. When we have upwards of 20 million illegal people here, many of whom are having more than one child, it doesn't take long to have a pretty sever impact on our country. Add to that the fact that children can petition for their parents to become Citizens and the problem is compounded. Good grief...what were they thinking? One little caveat...having at least one parent who is a Citizen...would have done the trick.

I've always contended...we won't be taken over by an army, but merely through immigration. All one needs to do to take control of the United States is outbreed everyone else. I guess in that regard, maybe it's a good thing in a long run that we have so many Mexicans coming here illegally...would rather have a bunch of Christians than some of the other alternatives!

Edited April 30, 2010 by LvivLovers

[Brad and Vika 129]

It's not unconstitutional to require people to verify they are legal residents. If this were not true, how can we have immigration laws? Any constitution that allows illegals to not have to prove their status is crazy.

True. I also believe that the act of asking for ID under normal circumstances is constitutional as well. Accent or skin color of course wouldn't qualify, but say, every one sitting in this waiting room probably would. I know, the next issue would be "but you screened every one in a waiting room you KNEW would be full of people from _______".

That would be our 14th amendment to the Constitution.

Section 1 of the 14th amendment reads: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Now there is a part of the constitution that could stand some amendment.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

The part "and are subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has become the interesting part.

Native Americans, let's call them Indians as the country India was known as Hindustan at the time were were talking about Indians, are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States if they live in their reservations, and the same applies to diplomats. Therefore, children of diplomats born in the US do not become US citizen automatically.

This can now argued in a way that illegal immigrants are outside the jurisdiction of the US as well. I'm not qualified to have an informed opinion in this regard, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.

[visaveteran 1]

OK, let's follow your logic Mox. A kid refuses to produce ID for beer. Consequences: He could be arrested for trying to buy beer underage. After all, he picked up the beer and took it to the counter with the intention of breaking the law. He knew when he approached the counter he would likely be ID checked. And he will definitely not be drinking beer...he'll be shown the door.

An illegal does not have to produce an ID to a cop. Consequences: He too could go to jail but he, at the least, should be shown the nearest Mexican border crossing. He forfeits his right to stay. If he doesn't want to leave, then he produces an ID card. Otherwise, bye bye. For every action there is a reaction. Nothing is without consequences.

Comparing the Wall Street Journal and the Huffington Post blog is pretty ridiculous. Not apples and oranges...but apples and prunes.

[mox 298]

Now there is a part of the constitution that could stand some amendment.

We fix the 14th amendment at the same time we're fixing the 2nd amendment huh?

[sachinky 464]

Interestingly enough, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was designed to grant citizenship to slaves and their offspring.

However, as Bob pointed out, this isn't all encompassing. Children born to foreign diplomats are not considered to be USCs since they are outside U.S. jurisdiction.

[LvivLovers 39]

As for having to show an ID. I don't want to be unfair to anyone. I'd have absolutely NO problem whatsoever producing my ID for every single transaction I take part in as long as everyone else does the same and we deport illegal aliens found during the process. I already get carded when buying beer even though it's clear I'm over 21..doesn't offend me a bit.

[mox 298]

OK, let's follow your logic Mox. A kid refuses to produce ID for beer. Consequences: He could be arrested for trying to buy beer underage. After all, he picked up the beer and took it to the counter with the intention of breaking the law. He knew when he approached the counter he would likely be ID checked. And he will definitely not be drinking beer...he'll be shown the door.

Point here is that the kid (or 80 year old man, it makes no difference) was never REQUIRED to show ID. Yes, if he wants his beer he needs to show ID, but there is no law compelling him to show an ID. So your examples where people show ID for different activities are NOT the same as a cop compelling you to show ID or take you to jail.

An illegal does not have to produce an ID to a cop. Consequences: He too could go to jail but he, at the least, should be shown the nearest Mexican border crossing. He forfeits his right to stay. If he doesn't want to leave, then he produces an ID card. Otherwise, bye bye. For every action there is a reaction. Nothing is without consequences.

Legally, the cop better be stopping the guy for some other reason than just a random ID check. Because if all the cop has on him is his refusal to show ID, he legally can do nothing. It is not a crime to refuse to identify yourself. If there is no crime being committed, then the cop needs to gtfo.

And hopefully everyone here, citizens and non- alike, would do the same thing: if a cop EVER comes up to you and demands ID, the first word out of your mouth should be "no."

Comparing the Wall Street Journal and the Huffington Post blog is pretty ridiculous. Not apples and oranges...but apples and prunes.

I'm comparing Patty Noonan to Ariana Huffington. Noonan is a hack just like Huffington.

As for having to show an ID. I don't want to be unfair to anyone. I'd have absolutely NO problem whatsoever producing my ID for every single transaction I take part in as long as everyone else does the same and we deport illegal aliens found during the process. I already get carded when buying beer even though it's clear I'm over 21..doesn't offend me a bit.

What about if a cop stopped you on the street and demanded to see your ID, for no apparent reason? How would you feel then?

[LvivLovers 39]

We fix the 14th amendment at the same time we're fixing the 2nd amendment huh?

Wth does the 2nd ammendment have to do with the 14th? Just because one needs fixing/clarification due to unforseen circumstances does not mean everything else is invalid. That's why we have ammendments in the first place. It's not always possible to get things right the first time.

[LvivLovers 39]

What about if a cop stopped you on the street and demanded to see your ID, for no apparent reason? How would you feel then?

For no apparent reason, I might be suspicious of his motives. But if it's the law of the land, then I have no problem with it whatsoever. If they want to check whether I'm here legally or not, more power to them...it's a small price to pay and I'll happily comply. I don't think twice when someone cards me, so it's not much different.