Here is a reason to own a gun

[natty bumppo 297]

No. I'm saying (and saying it as clear, plain, language as I can to avoid misinterpretation) that it is illogical to contend, as you did, that the experience of ONE GUY GUY WITH A GUN in a disaster zone equates to ALL PEOPLE WITH GUNS in the disaster zone being "better off".

more than one guy with a gun helped protect property here ... after the LEO's were told to leave ..

http://en.wikipedia....s_riots_of_1992

[Candy/SadanNasir 2]

There are a lot of good reasons for owning a gun, but obtaining a false sense of security isn't one of them.

It is always difficult and dangerous living through disasters, natural or man made and I feel for those who have to go through it, and hope that normality is restored as quickly as possible.

[natty bumppo 297]

There are a lot of good reasons for owning a gun, but obtaining a false sense of security isn't one of them.

It is always difficult and dangerous living through disasters, natural or man made and I feel for those who have to go through it, and hope that normality is restored as quickly as possible.

who defines what is a "false sense of security" .... you???

[Ali G. 37]

I was thinking of installing these around my house as you never know who will strike. After all, if Chile or Haiti couldn't keep their ###### together , surely the US will struggle too.

And then spook wonder why I mock folks. May this be an example to those from the first world about what happens to a country when chronic poverty and the lack of education is allowed to continue unabated. We are seriously dealing with loonies here.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Ali G.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

more than one guy with a gun helped protect property here ... after the LEO's were told to leave ..

http://en.wikipedia....s_riots_of_1992

Generally speaking, it isn't worth risking your life to defend material things.

[natty bumppo 297]

I was thinking of installing these around my house as you never know who will strike. After all, if Chile or Haiti couldn't keep their ###### together , surely the US will struggle too.

And then spook wonder why I mock folks.

looks like your house built on stilts fell over .....

[Ali G. 37]

Not to mention, folks assume they are the only ones armed.

looks like your house built on stilts fell over .....

Are you drunk already?

[natty bumppo 297]

Not to mention, folks assume they are the only ones armed.

Are you drunk already?

who assumes ... you?

baiting again?

this is the best you can do .... what a waste ....

[CDAgirlMI 51]

[Ali G. 37]

this is the best you can do .... what a waste ....

You're one to talk.

How about you make a coherent statement and then come talk to me about being a waste.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Disagree with the issue if you want - but don't attack or make personal comments meant to annoy or upset another member. Baiting is a violation of TOS and is unacceptable.

[lostinblue 1,989]

The people in this perilous situation have no choice but to either attempt to find somewhere safer to be (which if they could, they would already have done so) or wait until the authorities get their ###### together, because what they can't do is take control of the situation themselves and restore public order. That is what needs to be done though, have public order restored, not ship out guns and ammunition to them.

You are an idiot if you believe that public protection lies in the hands of armed individuals.

Ok different disaster but same results.... You are better off with a gun than without. Here is a story from katrina.

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0091.html

What Katrina demonstrated is that we’re just one disaster away from anarchy. Many police officers simply fled the city and many who remained were part of the problem, not part of the solution. And anyone who tried to ride out the storm was left to fend for themselves,” says Bird. “And that includes protecting themselves from the thugs who were stealing cars and roaming the streets looking for dry, empty houses to loot.”

Chris starts off a little dramatic, but what he says is essentially true.

Bird points to the story of Vinnie Pervel, a gay rights activist & local contractor in New Orleans who up until the aftermath of Katrina, didn’t like guns and was uncomfortable having a weapon in the house. After being hit in the head and carjacked, Vinnie became a believer in armed self-defense. “That experience transformed Vinnie,” says Bird. “He went home, found an old shotgun that belonged to his partner and for the next few weeks, Vinnie, his family and a neighbor stood armed watch over their home and street to protect themselves from the criminals who were trying to take advantage of the disaster. They knew the police weren’t going to help them; they had to rely on themselves for protection.”

This provides a perspective not available in the original article. Vinnie is not a man prepared. He doesn't even own his own gun.

Vinnie got out of his van and put his keys in his pocket. He noticed a lavender-colored Geo Prism, driven by a young black woman, had pulled in right behind him. He was paying attention to the Prism when he became aware of two young black men at the front of his van. They were about nineteen years old, both wearing long white T-shirts that reached to their knees, black jeans, and white tennis shoes. They were about Vinnie’s height – five feet eight inches – and a little lighter than his hundred and sixty pounds. Both wore their hair in long cornrows.

The Prism drove off as the men started asking questions. Vinnie recalled the conversation.

“How do we get out of here? We want to evacuate,” one of the men said.

“If you go right down this road here you can catch the ferry by the ferry landing; they’re evacuating free,” Vinnie said.

“You don’t realize, we have children.”

“They take children as well.”

At that point, Vinnie noticed that one of the men was holding one hand behind his back and he could see the end of what looked like a sledge-hammer handle.

This definitely provides more information than the original article. If we take it at face value, Vinnie has a very serious lapse of what we call 'situational awareness'. How can he be so aware of so many details, but manage to completely miss two young men getting out of a clown car with a big stick?

We also get a better glimpse of Vinnie's attackers. If we are to believe the account at face value, then perhaps these aren't just random thugs. Maybe they aren't bad guys at all. Maybe they're just desperate people willing to do desperate things to get themselves and their children out of a bad place. We're going to revisit that before long, but while a lot of the sensation revolves around bands of roving thugs and professional 'gangs', if you examine each account what you frequently find are common people driven to desperate means out of desperate circumstances. I say that not by way of any excuse for their behavior - on the contrary I'm telling you this because I want you to be ready to encounter such people after any SHTF event because you will encounter them. Just ask Vinnie.

He was afraid the men meant to harm him so he turned away from them intending to yell to a group of about a dozen friends and neighbors who were at the end of the block. The group consisted of men, mostly armed with shotguns, and their wives. Vinnie knew them because they were all members of the neighborhood association.

Now we add to the mix a group of neighbors, standing around with shotguns and chewing the fat with their wives. Less than a block away, they all fail to notice Vinnie's plight. While Vinnie is getting murdered, they have no watch strategy at all. A couple of neighbors with guns do not a militia make.

Before he could open his mouth, one of the young men hit him in the back of the head with his fist, and Vinnie went down. As he fell, he hit the front of his head on the edge of a brick planter that was on the sidewalk. The other guy stood over him with a three-foot maul in his hand.

OK... Pop quiz. From reading all the accounts, was Vinnie hit with a handle, a mallet, or with a fist?

“Just stay down. We want your truck, the keys to your van,” the man demanded.

Is this the behavior of hardened thugs?

Vinnie told him the keys were in his pocket. One of them took them, got into the van and cranked it up. As soon as it was running, the other guy ran to the passenger side and got in, and the van took off south on Belleville. As they drove away, Vinnie’s fear gave way to anger.

“At the time I had a pair of pliers in my hand ‘cause that’s what I was cutting the gas off with. I just stood up and I flung the pliers and knocked out the back window of the van,” Vinnie said.

“I hit right in the middle of the back window and busted it out. The guys both turned around and looked at me because they thought I was shooting at them. They almost hit a tree but they just managed to turn left, go down another block, and turn right.”

Vinnie yelled to the group of friends and neighbors for help. They piled into a truck and drove towards him but Vinnie was chasing after his van and had made it another block when he saw a black police officer in uniform sitting in an unmarked white Crown Victoria. He told the officer the two men had stolen his van and hit him in the head. The officer said he would go after them.

“He turned around and went the other way.”

The cavalry manages to arrive late. We'll deal with the behavior of the officer later.

He was the last police officer Vinnie and his friends would see for ten days.

Is anyone genuinely surprised by that? You shouldn't be.

“I went home, told Gregg what happened, and he freaked out. My Mom freaked out, and I guess I freaked out ‘cause I went upstairs, and I got the gun, and went on my front porch upstairs off my bedroom. I sat on my second-floor balcony with the gun.”

Suddenly this doesn't seem like the competent neighborhood militia we heard about in the first article. It's a bunch of people freaking out. People with guns. Traumatized people. People unprepared to face the evolving nightmare.

The assault and the hijacking of his van was the defining moment for Vinnie Pervel. In those few minutes, he went from being a supporter of gun control to an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment. He realized why ordinary law-abiding citizens needed guns to defend themselves. He had just seen that residents could not rely on the police for protection or even to stop crime when it was happening. He was hearing random shots being fired, mostly across the river. He knew that with the break down of law and order, ordinary citizens would have to provide their own security. And that didn’t mean burglar alarms and deadbolts: it meant guns...

Very prosaic, but nearly guaranteed to be bullshit. Vinnie didn't suddenly become a Second Amendment supporter, able to quote the wisdom of great men in the defense of a philosophy of self determination. Vinnie was scared shitless and decided to arm himself because S was HTF and his self preservation instincts over-rode his liberal philosophy. I actually wonder why Chris includes this in his book because Vinnie is such a poor example. Vinnie can't say, "Thank God I had a gun!", because when it counted, he didn't. Oh... Wait... Maybe that's why Chris includes him in the book... Interesting.

I put this page here because I want you to think about something. You may not like guns, and I respect that. I'm not going to try and change your mind today - but I want you to start thinking about Vinnie. I also want to point out that 90% of the people who come to my 'self defense' and 'rape prevention' seminars have recently been the victims of violent crime. Only rarely do people take any personal responsibility for their own safety and security until something bad happens to them. You aren't going to learn very much from such a seminar, no matter how much effort I put into it. Why do I do it? Because those seminars serve the same purpose as this web page - to start you at least thinking about the fact that one day the only person between a desperate person and your family, your health, or your wealth might be you.

As part of your ACTION Plan, you need a solution set for this problem.

So, how about it? What do you do when 911 stops working? You better answer quick. Here come some more thugs, and this time they want your car - and they think your 15 year old daughter is pretty cute too, and maybe they'll take her for a little ride.

[Ban Hammer 14,056]

Good reasons to own a gun:

Interested in:

Hunting

Target shooting

Competition shooting

Member of military

Member of security service

Member of police service

those last 3 - odds are they are not able to use them for the job. the us military forbids privately owned weapons from being taken into a combat zone.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Never needed a gun in 32 years. Must be doing something right.

[natty bumppo 297]

Never needed a gun in 32 years. Must be doing something right.

good for you .. i've needed one many times ....

your point is?