Stopped the Interview

[Boiler 43,736]

The main thing I was trying to get at is that just because it isn't fair, and it doesn't apply to all families in Morocco, the CO is looking for the fraud and is using the normal customs of that country to base his decisions. You can't take it personally, and you can't take what is said by us here personally. We are all just trying to assist you with with ideas of what went wrong.

Also you don't need to explain to us the reasons for his responses to the CO's questions. It doesn't matter what we think, what matters is what the CO thinks. For some reason he thinks it is fraud and you have to be able to place yourself out of your situation and look at it from a third party perspective. And what I have said time and time again is to realize that the CO's job is to prove that your case is fraud not that it is legitimate. It won't help your case at all to be defensive with anyone here. Just soak in what is being said here. If someone here sees something as strange that could be the very thing that the CO is seeing as well. I have a pretty significant age gap with my husband and of course this was a huge red flag for them. I can tell you that if I was a CO and I saw that big of an age gap I would certainly have had plenty of doubts about it myself. I knew our relationships was real, but just because I knew it didn't mean that the CO had an obligation to dig deep enough in our relationship to see what we see in each other. He sees fraud.....lots of fraud. If he spent enough time delving deeply in each of these relationships to find out the truth it would take way to much time. This is why it is our responsibility to prepare ourselves to the best of our ability to have all of the answers for him in advance. Some times things happen that are not predictable however. In our case what set it over the edge was that the CO asked him if he had family in the US. He said yes, I have a sister and an ex brother in law. That is where ours went wrong. He assumed that the sister and ex were the ones that were married, and from there assumed that she had used him for immigration purposes, and then it branched off to him believing that she paid me to marry him. None of this was the actual truth, but that is what happened in our case. If we had known enough we could have stopped it from being returned and provided them with proof that the ex was from a different sister that had never even been to the US. But through all of my research here on VJ I could not find anything on this topic.

I am not sure if the bolded statement above was for me however. we have already won our denial. He has been here for over 3 years now. When this happened to us there wasn't any posts that I could find that addressed this situation. Thanks to a group of women that went through a denial through Casa at the same time we did we were able to pull together all sorts of information to assist others that are now going through this. I don't want anyone to feel as lost as we felt when it happened to us. That is why that link in the MENA forum is there. Kiyah, who had a denial shortly after us was able to get that pinned, and it has been a great source of information for many members since then.

Excellent post

I just wanted to point out that Lagos is the hardest Consulate, Casa behined but probably not by very much.

[mistyblkrose33 0]

My comments are not directed to any one poster. I do know, however, that I need not explain any of this to anyone. That was not my point.

Morocco4ever you are saying that you case was similar and that you man is now in the US. I am asking and have been asking what you and others like you did. Did you wait for them to tell you what to do next. Did you marry your fiance and then come back and refile. This is where I am getting no info. What was your next step after the devastation.

I understand what is being said about fraud. No one else needs to point me back to that point. I get it, I hear you loud and clear. This is why I am loosing patience because people keep trying to convince me that the CO was doing his job. I know he was I am glad that he was. I don't have any doubts about that. If you read what I am saying you will see I am moving on. Next step please!!!!!!!!

We have decided a course of action I just want to make sure I am doing everything that we can be fore we go to plan B. I have done everything else that I can think of without being educated on this matter. I am looking for an outcome of someone else.

Thanks for all your responses guys. I am not harboring anger or jumping on people. I just want to stop wasting everyone key stokes. The comment I made was because I know how scared some of us newbies are. I have been on the other side of the post as a third party.

I read somewhere before that if you cannot vent here then what is the use of being here on a forum full of people in the same situation.

[Peace be still 6]

Please reread...I did not ask her to pay Marc Ellis a dime. I simply said he could advise her...He is a member of VJ so unless he charges for PM or emails I dont think I told her to pay him one red cent.

Your case is rare you should be wise enough to know that. I told her this. I told her she may be him here on the original K-1 visa BUT lets be real here she may not. Rushing to marry him while the K-1 has not reached USCIS is not wise either. I am sure you did what was best for you and your husband but you are not everyone and you should know by now that Casa is the hardest Consulate to pass through and she MAY very well need to prepare a rebuttal for the original K-1. Simply ignoring it.....

to pay Marc Ellis a dime. I simply said he could advise her...He is a member of VJ so unless he charges for PM or emails I dont think I told her to pay him one red cent. What attorney you know will give free advice, that is not going to lead up to money. Please let's keep it 100% real. Any advice he gives will be for you to hire him. Perhaps you are angry because you listened to him and you are still waiting like I would be doing had i listen to him. It was a waiste of my $200. I got better advice from the Department of State, and USCIS who told me that I didn't have to wait like Marc Ellis advised me to wait. I guess you hired him and following his advice. I mean it was really crazy of me to hire a man that lives in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam

advising me or anyone else from MENA. One other thing you need to understand is that not everybody can live off of his/her unemployeement or SSI/SSD checks while living in Morocco waiting for the process to go through. You do know that if you're Government check will be stopped when and if they learn of you residing in another Country for more then 6mos.

I married my fiance and sent the rebuttle letter all in with my CR1 package, as well as sending in a copy of my marriage certificate along with a rebuttle letter to my k1 petition that was sent back to the USCIS.

[JamilahAM 0]

to pay Marc Ellis a dime. I simply said he could advise her...He is a member of VJ so unless he charges for PM or emails I dont think I told her to pay him one red cent. What attorney you know will give free advice, that is not going to lead up to money. Please let's keep it 100% real. Any advice he gives will be for you to hire him. Perhaps you are angry because you listened to him and you are still waiting like I would be doing had i listen to him. It was a waiste of my $200. I got better advice from the Department of State, and USCIS who told me that I didn't have to wait like Marc Ellis advised me to wait. I guess you hired him and following his advice. I mean it was really crazy of me to hire a man that lives in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam

advising me or anyone else from MENA. One other thing you need to understand is that not everybody can live off of his/her unemployeement or SSI/SSD checks while living in Morocco waiting for the process to go through. You do know that if you're Government check will be stopped when and if they learn of you residing in another Country for more then 6mos.

I married my fiance and sent the rebuttle letter all in with my CR1 package, as well as sending in a copy of my marriage certificate along with a rebuttle letter to my k1 petition that was sent back to the USCIS.

Umm..sweetie He regularly gives out advice on here. I have rea dother posters suggest Marc but have never heard you say a word. Why now?

I LIVE in Morocco so I am not upset or waiting for a damn thing. I quit my job before I came to Morocco but I was lucky to have a savings and I am certified teacher and could work here if I wanted to. If you want to make this personal let me know. You are something...just because you were lucky does not mean she will be.

Just because you are on pubic funds does not mean I am. Speak what you know and leave the BS outside the forum.

PM or email me I can and will give it back to you just as hard as you attempt to give it to me.

Edited February 10, 2010 by JamilahAM

[JamilahAM 0]

to pay Marc Ellis a dime. I simply said he could advise her...He is a member of VJ so unless he charges for PM or emails I dont think I told her to pay him one red cent. What attorney you know will give free advice, that is not going to lead up to money. Please let's keep it 100% real. Any advice he gives will be for you to hire him. Perhaps you are angry because you listened to him and you are still waiting like I would be doing had i listen to him. It was a waiste of my $200. I got better advice from the Department of State, and USCIS who told me that I didn't have to wait like Marc Ellis advised me to wait. I guess you hired him and following his advice. I mean it was really crazy of me to hire a man that lives in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam

advising me or anyone else from MENA. One other thing you need to understand is that not everybody can live off of his/her unemployeement or SSI/SSD checks while living in Morocco waiting for the process to go through. You do know that if you're Government check will be stopped when and if they learn of you residing in another Country for more then 6mos.

I married my fiance and sent the rebuttle letter all in with my CR1 package, as well as sending in a copy of my marriage certificate along with a rebuttle letter to my k1 petition that was sent back to the USCIS.

Do yo understand the term advice? She can take it or not. I guided her towards info. You forgot that I mentioned she contact her elected officials as well.

[morocco4ever 63]

My comments are not directed to any one poster. I do know, however, that I need not explain any of this to anyone. That was not my point.

Morocco4ever you are saying that you case was similar and that you man is now in the US. I am asking and have been asking what you and others like you did. Did you wait for them to tell you what to do next. Did you marry your fiance and then come back and refile. This is where I am getting no info. What was your next step after the devastation.

I understand what is being said about fraud. No one else needs to point me back to that point. I get it, I hear you loud and clear. This is why I am loosing patience because people keep trying to convince me that the CO was doing his job. I know he was I am glad that he was. I don't have any doubts about that. If you read what I am saying you will see I am moving on. Next step please!!!!!!!!

We have decided a course of action I just want to make sure I am doing everything that we can be fore we go to plan B. I have done everything else that I can think of without being educated on this matter. I am looking for an outcome of someone else.

Thanks for all your responses guys. I am not harboring anger or jumping on people. I just want to stop wasting everyone key stokes. The comment I made was because I know how scared some of us newbies are. I have been on the other side of the post as a third party.

I read somewhere before that if you cannot vent here then what is the use of being here on a forum full of people in the same situation.

I have been on Visa Journey for a long time, and have seen many different scenarios. The difference between my case and yours is that our return was for the CR1, so we had no other option other than to wait it out.

Yours is the K-1, so I will give you a run down of what others have done. What I have seen the majority of time is that the I-129f has expired and they have either done the K-1 again or have married and done the CR1 process. At one time everyone was saying that all of the K1's expired and to go ahead and proceed with either filing again or getting married. But just as I was stepping back and thinking that they all expire I had heard of one case that they did not expire, and decided to send them the notice of intent to revoke. So based on that I side on safety, and ensure that the case actually did expire. That verification would come from the USCIS. As you can see there have been a few that have not waited for it to expire and have proceeded with marriage. Like I stated, most seem to expire, but what if you were the one that didn't? That would be messy, and could have been avoided if you had waited a few weeks to ensure that you are proceeding carefully.

The reason I was guiding you with locating the reason for the denial is for 2 reasons. First off your fastest bet is to get the consulate to reconsider the return. So I guess that is why so many here have not really gone into detail as to your next step because that avenue is certainly worth trying first.

Second, the other reason that I and several others are dwelling on why it happened is that the denial will be on record in the fraud department. If you choose to either file another I-129f or get married and file the I-130 it is vital that you submit any and all evidence with the I-129f or I-130 to supply evidence to the USCIS addressing the consulates concerns. Once it has been addressed by the USCIS, and the petition is approved, it is believed that the consulate can not return it again on the same issue.

Whatever you decide I do wish you the best of luck. My biggest suggestion is not to make any hasty decisions, but rather to make well thought out decisions on this. Moving to fast before knowing the facts might work out fine, but why risk it when you can ensure a good outcome?

[morocco4ever 63]

to pay Marc Ellis a dime. I simply said he could advise her...He is a member of VJ so unless he charges for PM or emails I dont think I told her to pay him one red cent. What attorney you know will give free advice, that is not going to lead up to money. Please let's keep it 100% real. Any advice he gives will be for you to hire him. Perhaps you are angry because you listened to him and you are still waiting like I would be doing had i listen to him. It was a waiste of my $200. I got better advice from the Department of State, and USCIS who told me that I didn't have to wait like Marc Ellis advised me to wait. I guess you hired him and following his advice. I mean it was really crazy of me to hire a man that lives in Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam

advising me or anyone else from MENA. One other thing you need to understand is that not everybody can live off of his/her unemployeement or SSI/SSD checks while living in Morocco waiting for the process to go through. You do know that if you're Government check will be stopped when and if they learn of you residing in another Country for more then 6mos.

I married my fiance and sent the rebuttle letter all in with my CR1 package, as well as sending in a copy of my marriage certificate along with a rebuttle letter to my k1 petition that was sent back to the USCIS.

I had actually contacted Marc Ellis by email with the details of our case. He told me that our case was strong, and really didn't need a lawyer, and that if I wanted to hire him he could organize our papers for us. I have a lot of respect for him because he was honest with us, and he was right. We didn't use him because I am already ####### about organizing, so it would have been a waste.

On the other hand I hired a local attorney to file a FOIA for us. She charged me $500.00. The idiot sent it to the USCIS not the DOS, so they never would have gotten the information we were searching for. By the time the lawyer contacted me and told me that she had the results of the FIOA, and to come in and we can discuss our next step, I already had him here. After I discovered her mistake I filed one myself to the DOS, and got the response that the reasons for denials are confidential, and they can't give out that information. This was an entire waste of time. And I realized that you do need to make sure that if you need a lawyer that you research thoroughly their credentials. Especially if they have real experience with returned petitions.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

closed for review

After review I am re-opening this thread with a warning. Stop the personal attacks and insults, and stop the judgmental comments about other posters. I will also state that insisting the OP ignores other advise and follows a course of action that worked for you is irresponsible and could place the OP in serious difficulties. Each case must be evaluated on its own circumstances, not some one else's. Immigration is not a one size fits all process.

The best advice is to seek a consultation with a knowledgeable immigration attorney to find out what options are appropriate and what potential pitfalls may lie in wait with different courses of action. The fraud claim has to be properly addressed - if it is not, it could come back to haunt the OP with serious repercussions. This is where a competent immigration attorney can be of assistance, even if it is only for a consult.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Kathryn41

[mistyblkrose33 0]

closed for review

After review I am re-opening this thread with a warning. Stop the personal attacks and insults, and stop the judgmental comments about other posters. I will also state that insisting the OP ignores other advise and follows a course of action that worked for you is irresponsible and could place the OP in serious difficulties. Each case must be evaluated on its own circumstances, not some one else's. Immigration is not a one size fits all process.

The best advice is to seek a consultation with a knowledgeable immigration attorney to find out what options are appropriate and what potential pitfalls may lie in wait with different courses of action. The fraud claim has to be properly addressed - if it is not, it could come back to haunt the OP with serious repercussions. This is where a competent immigration attorney can be of assistance, even if it is only for a consult.

Thank you for reopening my post. I hope the responses here helps someone else as much as it has help me. Good luck to all and take care. My God be with you.

[Married2009 32]

It's hard being aprart, isn't it? I wish you the best, and hope your case resolves swiftly and favorably.

[wantknow 11]

Thanks for such a great example and reasonable explanation to the situation, It really help me to understand better how the intervuew process works and how they (CO) reason on each case.

Consulates in high fraud countries do ask trick questions, but not if they are completely irrelevant. They also don't automatically presume that any incorrect answer is a lie unless they can find evidence that the incorrect answer constitutes an <i>intent to deceive</i>. For example, they aren't going to ask an interviewee what is the value of PI (unless perhaps he/she claims to be a math professor), and then accuse them of lying because they don't know the precise answer (there IS no precise answer). This isn't the kind of trick question they ask because it would be useless as a basis for refusing a visa application.

Consulates apply the "reasonable person" standard when judging whether a relationship is a sham for immigration purposes. In high fraud countries, the "reasonable person" standard is the sledgehammer in their anti-fraud toolbox. If they can show evidence that the relationship deviates from the stereotypical traditional relationship in the beneficiary's country and/or culture in even the slightest way, they can use that as an excuse to deny the visa.

In many cultures, knowledge and consent of the family is considered to be critically important. In some cultures it would be unthinkable for someone to marry without the consent and active participation of their family. When presented with a relationship where there were several possible motives for a person wanting to marry, a "reasonable person" in such a culture would have a hard time believing that someone wanted to marry for traditional reasons if the relationship itself did not conform to tradition.

Something about your case made the CO very suspicious. In order to confirm his suspicions, he pulled out his "sledgehammer" and he used it. Apparently, marrying a divorcee is a big deal in Morocco, and the father of the groom would be expected to know whether his future daughter-in-law had ever been married. He didn't, so the CO concluded that the beneficiary's family doesn't consider this relationship to be serious. If that's enough to set off the "reasonable person" alarms in Morocco, then it's enough to deny the visa.