Thuy's Interview @ HCMC

[ScottThuy 140]

Maybe I can have her father call the ex telling him that they need a notarized/certified letter showing where he lives .. for something related to his sons school... he would likley send an affidavit or proof in that scenario. we have a month to come up with proof in a country where proof is hard to come by.

[lindal24 1]

here's a link to anh map's post for "Proof of Ex Spouse Residence" ...but it's more for the USC ex-spouse than the VN National ex-spouse...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=162681

[ScottThuy 140]

I'm all set from this end.. maybe even too much evidence of my ex's address.. but for VN it is such a different story

[toddandhien 2]

Maybe I can have her father call the ex telling him that they need a notarized/certified letter showing where he lives .. for something related to his sons school... he would likley send an affidavit or proof in that scenario. we have a month to come up with proof in a country where proof is hard to come by.

If there is concern about fraud, they would expect that her ex is part of the deception plan. Therefore, anything that comes from him (certifed or not) will be fruit from a poisonous tree.

If I were in your boat, I would focus on getting stamped government records that can support what you and Thuy are claiming for dates of cohabitation and then separate living arrangements. I know easier said than done but you have a limited amount of time to do this and I suspect that it will take some effort to get the records that you really need to defend your case.

[toddandhien 2]

Thuy said the CO acted as if she could not understand her.in either language. Could be due to the northern VN dialect.. the translation didnt reflect what she had said... it was compared to Thuy saying a story and then the CO saying 1 or 2 words.... I imagined those old kung fu movies where a guys mouth moves forever and you only hear two words..

I think the Black female CO is one of the big guns.. the other being that korean woman.. if they are the one doing the interview, then it will likely get ugly and take a long time... When I am there in a few weeks I will go in ahead of time and talk to the Consulate General. not as much to complain, but to inquire why documents were ignored that were in the initial filing as well as why documenst were refused at the interview... I want the CO's to be able to prevent visa fraud... I have seen far too much of it here... I also don't want to see families put through the pain that I have seen so many go through and am starting to feel myself...

The issue is that we were both legally married when we met..that is likely what they have a problem with.. most of the questions focused on that topic. had they accepted the notarized timeline she had with her and tried to give them, they would totally understand the relationship between us and our former spouses. If there is a political issue regarding her family or the north regarding what happened 40 years ago someone needs to grow up.. with all of the horror stories that Thuys grandmother told her growing up, it is amazing that she would even consider going to eat with an american, let alone marry one... they put it behind them and don't blame me for the actions of others...

I can address the issue with documentation and submit the documents that they refused to acceppt yesterday... IMO that, along with being there, and wanting to resolve any issues and take my fiance back to the US with me shows alot.

I applaud your efforts in trying to bring reform to the HCM Consulate. However, for your own self-preservation, I might urge you to consider settling your case favorably first and then tackling the global issue. I think what you want is to persuade human beings to see things your way. If you create a fuss and indirectly accuse them of wrongdoing, it seems to me that this would serve to strengthen their resolve as they review your case.

[ScottThuy 140]

If there is concern about fraud, they would expect that her ex is part of the deception plan. Therefore, anything that comes from him (certifed or not) will be fruit from a poisonous tree.

If I were in your boat, I would focus on getting stamped government records that can support what you and Thuy are claiming for dates of cohabitation and then separate living arrangements. I know easier said than done but you have a limited amount of time to do this and I suspect that it will take some effort to get the records that you really need to defend your case.

the catch is that there never was any cohabitation of her and her ex... they were married on paper because she agreed to marry him, but they never got married as there was a violent attack by him that ended the relationship... he went ahead and filed the paper that she signed before the attack with the government and it took an actual divorce to clear up the paperwork... he fought it all the way...

I really dont know how we can 'prove' where he lives as he has no real permanent residence other than his parents home.

The Ho Khau and an affidavit are the only things I can seem to think of.. there may not be any official record other than the divorce which they already have...

[toddandhien 2]

the catch is that there never was any cohabitation of her and her ex... they were married on paper because she agreed to marry him, but they never got married as there was a violent attack by him that ended the relationship... he went ahead and filed the paper that she signed before the attack with the government and it took an actual divorce to clear up the paperwork... he fought it all the way...

I really dont know how we can 'prove' where he lives as he has no real permanent residence other than his parents home.

The Ho Khau and an affidavit are the only things I can seem to think of.. there may not be any official record other than the divorce which they already have...

Police records are your only other course of action, I think. Technically, VN citizens are to report to the local police as they move and visit so that records can be kept of their whereabouts. I would start with inquiries at 3 local police stations:

1. Thuy's (just to see wht they have on record about her and about him...better to be forewarned)

2. His parents

3. The village where he is currently living near his job

It may give you nothing but if you get anything it is more than you have now. Would be great if you could be on the ground there managing these efforts.

[Julian_Hien 0]

just wanted to let you know we are all praying here for you and that you will recieve pink soon, hien and i are new here and are soon to start our journey,if there is any thing i or hien can do please ask, thanks for all your input on visa journey

[ScottThuy 140]

Well,

I was talking with a friend of mine who immigrated from Canada and I guess he thinks so much clearer than I at the moment... We talked about the RFE and the situation regarding evidence of ex's address... His question was "why don't you ask them what they want" so I did.. I sent an email asking what sufficient evidence was and asked if the evidence presented at the initial interview was enough given that they said they did not need to look at all of it...

Items 2 & 3 are related to former spouses with which we have very limited or no contact. Regarding the reference to "evidence of his or her current address", what is considered sufficient evidence, given that our ex's play no role in our relationship or day to day lives and are not willing to directly provide any documentation to assist us in our petition to marry?

I just got the auto response to the email and expect a response sometime mid february given thier normal response times to email.. If I am lucky the request for prompt reply will speed things up a bit... and if I am extra lucky, they will give me substantive answers to my questions... in any case they will put the email in the file... and it shows that I will be there for the next appointment.

[ScottThuy 140]

In the end the birds will sing so happily - sometimes logic makes no sense at all!

When i was young

It seemed that life was so wonderful

A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical

And all the birds in the trees

Well they´d be singing so happily

Oh joyfully, oh playfully watching me

But then they sent me away

To teach me how to be sensible

Logical, oh responsible ,practical

And they showed me a world

Where i could be so dependable

Oh clinical, oh intellectual, cynical

There are times when all the world´s asleep

The questions run too deep

For such a simple man

Won´t you please, please tell me what we´ve learned

I know it sounds absurd

But please tell me who i am

Now watch what you say

Or they´ll be calling you a radical

A liberal, oh fanatical, criminal

Oh won´t you sign up your name

We´d like to feel you´re

Acceptable, respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable!

At night when all the world´s asleep

The questions run too deep

For such a simple man

Won´t you please, please tell me what we've learned

I know it sounds absurd

But please tell me who i am, who i am ,who i am.

Maybe I could do my version of Roger Hodgson singing give a little bit when I am at the consulate...

[feelinglucky 1]

interview lasted over 1 hour.. extensive questions about my family and my ex's,..my visits, dates places activities, when we first had sex. she was very rude and yelled at Thuy.. I am amazed that the CO was so impolite! They refused to allow her to answer in english.. probably more than 75 questions. the only question she did not know was the exact name of the University I gradiuate from was it St Leo University or College.. It was college when I started and changed to University before I earned MBA.. The CO appeared angry that she knew so much about me... that she started asking questions that my mother doesn't even know...

blue slip for police cert. which she had but they refused to accept...

Info about my ex which was frontloaded... and they disregarded

info about her ex..

timeline which she tried to give them but they refused to take...

They refused to look at evidence of relationship.. only looked at a few pictures..

I am livid...

Having gone through the blue slip word by word...

The first papragraph notes the 221g .. in that paragraph.. the standard first paragraph for all blue slips.. notes that the reason is either a lack of proof of bonafide or failure to present required documents.

The following paragraphs attached explain the documents needed... others have seen proof of bonafide listed and from what Thuy said.. they saw the proof she had, but only lookedat the photos.. she did look at all of the photos.. and she asked about specific dates and places for the past year... example.. during his third trip what day were you in vung tau? what were the exact dates he arrived and departed for each trip... while the CO looked at my passport pages and visa copies...

I have two choices.. I can address them based on the exact wording of the items listed(proof of ex's address)... or I can read between the lines that they want proof that neither of us are with our ex's...

for each of the ex's we will provide a cover sheet from each of us that is notarized stating that we don't reside together, listing and explaining the evidence provided as proof attached.

Scott, I am a little confused. Your previous post said the CO look at only a few pics. But your recent post said the CO look at all pics. Which one was it? You also said they refused to look at evidence of relationship, how much did the CO ignore ?

May I ask what is your main contention in your case? Was it the fact that the CO was and i quote "was very rude, Co appeared angry". Or that the CO refused documents submission 5 times. You apparently had all documents requested on the blue at that time, except for the updated police report, then why didnt the CO accepted it then? IMO your attention to your case you be on the CO attitude. By stepping back and look at it from a broader scope, it should appear that the CO 4 requested items were merely formalities. This is only my speculation based on my own personal experience with the consulate. They had also asked me to submit my ex current address as well. But in the end they deined me for other reasons. But on the hand your petition was prepared far better than mine. Focus your submission not only as to submit the requested items, but treated as a second chance to have a proper interview in written form. By being aware that Thuy interview had gone sideways you will have addressed the main concern. By listing and give explainations off ALL evidences is a great start. Hoping, next month when the CO look at all the evidence you personly submit she wont have the opprunity to reflect back on the inital interview and only make a decesion based on the evidence present in front of her for the SECOND time. Good Luck

[Mike n Huong 1]

Scott,

I asked my wife what she submitted to prove no relationship existed between her and her ex. She said that she went to the local justice office where she lived and got a single status paper from them. It was signed by the justice and they also had the local guy that goes around to collect the money for the electric and water to sign this paper as he is very familiar with who lives with who.

Just for the record, my wife is from the North also and was also treated rudely when being interviewed. She used IOM to organize and prepare her for the interview and can you believe that they took out several key items, Divorce Decree, Tax Transcripts, my birth certificate and a few other items and told her she didn't need them and threw them in the trash can. My wife grabbed them out of the can, but did not include them with the other paper work as the lady told her she didn't need it.

Just remember, in the end you will be together as long as you stay focused and submit everything and anything that you can to address their concerns

I see the light, it is Pink.

[luckytxn 2,263]

I like the ideas that I have seen on how to prove that the divorced couple are no longer residing together. This is much better than just saying there is no way to show this as they never resided and giving up. The consulate is going to want to see something. May I make a small suggestion? Make a separate timeline like page showing everything that is being done to find the proof to show they are not living together. Such as on this date attempt was made to get some such certificate or made contact with a office to get something or went and got a affidavit and on and on. As I am sure you are aware of there is something that has to satisfy them and showing them the effort that is brought into getting the documents can help. Also like the idea to not just focus on this to the exclusion of other items.

[ScottThuy 140]

Scott, I am a little confused. Your previous post said the CO look at only a few pics. But your recent post said the CO look at all pics. Which one was it? You also said they refused to look at evidence of relationship, how much did the CO ignore ?

May I ask what is your main contention in your case? Was it the fact that the CO was and i quote "was very rude, Co appeared angry". Or that the CO refused documents submission 5 times. You apparently had all documents requested on the blue at that time, except for the updated police report, then why didnt the CO accepted it then? IMO your attention to your case you be on the CO attitude. By stepping back and look at it from a broader scope, it should appear that the CO 4 requested items were merely formalities. This is only my speculation based on my own personal experience with the consulate. They had also asked me to submit my ex current address as well. But in the end they deined me for other reasons. But on the hand your petition was prepared far better than mine. Focus your submission not only as to submit the requested items, but treated as a second chance to have a proper interview in written form. By being aware that Thuy interview had gone sideways you will have addressed the main concern. By listing and give explainations off ALL evidences is a great start. Hoping, next month when the CO look at all the evidence you personly submit she wont have the opprunity to reflect back on the inital interview and only make a decesion based on the evidence present in front of her for the SECOND time. Good Luck

My issue was with policies and protocol... I know now after having talked to others that got the same blue slip that it is just a formality... We will have the documentation and my visa next week...

Edited January 28, 2010 by ScottThuy

[ScottThuy 140]

I like the ideas that I have seen on how to prove that the divorced couple are no longer residing together. This is much better than just saying there is no way to show this as they never resided and giving up. The consulate is going to want to see something. May I make a small suggestion? Make a separate timeline like page showing everything that is being done to find the proof to show they are not living together. Such as on this date attempt was made to get some such certificate or made contact with a office to get something or went and got a affidavit and on and on. As I am sure you are aware of there is something that has to satisfy them and showing them the effort that is brought into getting the documents can help. Also like the idea to not just focus on this to the exclusion of other items.

She can't contact her ex regarding the documents without risking everything in the process... He would do anything to ruin our relationship and if he saw her.. she may not survive the next beating. She contacted a friend of his that has befriended her in the past and will not say anything to the ex... she now has the actual address and can go to the local police and get a document stating that he resides there... no problems with that and it is an official document complete with red stamp and all...... she will also submit an affidavit of her relationship with him. I am very interested to see if they just give me a boilerplate response to my inquiry... in some respects its like having to hit a moving target and not knowing if its the correct target..