Parental approval for immigration

[Kailey 3]

Russian Federal law #114 of 1996 (http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=95210 ) says what i said - "An underage child normally travels abroad with one of the parents. If a child travels alone than the consent of both parents is required. In case either of the parents objects the underage child to travel abroad, such parent must submit his/her objection to the court and the possibility to travel outside Russia will be reviewed by the court".

I strongly recommend the author (his fiancee actually) to contact a lawyer, not a forum. And to read the instructions / laws more attentive.

And find out if they really have a problem or it's more one of those 'fear has big eyes' (Russian saying) situations .

And I wasn't asked to present that consent during my K1/K2 interview. What else to say?

[akdiver 3]

Why do you keep giving strange advice while the solution is simple - they should go to a lawyer??

Let me tell you what every single Russian I've ever personally known has told me about Russian Law. "It doesn't work!!!" If you bribe the right person (such as a judge), you can get whatever you want.

Or you think you know Russian pshychology? Or you personnaly know that guy? Or his sister???

I think anyone will do anything for a sufficient amount of cash. The guy's SISTER has no legal standing. I'm willing to bet the guy can be bought off for fairly cheap - as do a number of other people who posted before I did.

But if he isn't, I'm sure some "third party" would, for a reasonable sum, be willing to "persuade" the guy to wear a pink tutu and call you "mommy" if that's what you wanted him to do. Would probably cost less than paying the guy directly too.

Edited January 10, 2010 by akdiver

[Kailey 3]

Let me tell you what every single Russian I've ever personally known has told me about Russian Law. "It doesn't work!!!" If you bribe the right person (such as a judge), you can get whatever you want.

I think anyone will do anything for a sufficient amount of cash. The guy's SISTER has no legal standing. I'm willing to bet the guy can be bought off for fairly cheap - as do a number of other people who posted before I did.

But if he isn't, I'm sure some "third party" would, for a reasonable sum, be willing to "persuade" the guy to wear a pink tutu and call you "mommy" if that's what you wanted him to do. Would probably cost less than paying the guy directly too.

I am Russian and as a Russian i can tell you that some Russians prefer to think that law doesn't work because a) it's easier to think that way and blame everything on that

b ) for some people it's easier to try to bribe rather than to read and understand the law;

c) they don't understand the consequences of bribing.. sometimes it's really easier to go legal way.

but not going far away from the thread - the author i think doesn't even need to bribe anybody.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Kailey

[akdiver 3]

I am Russian and as a Russian i can tell you that some Russians prefer to think that law doesn't work because a) it's easier to think that way and blame everything on that

b ) for some people it's easier to try to bribe rather than to read and understand the law;

c) they don't understand the consequences of bribing.. sometimes it's really easier to go legal way.

but not going far away from the thread - the author i think doesn't even need to bribe anybody.

I've had Russian lawyers tell me flat out that it is their experience that if you want "justice", the only way to guarantee it is by paying an adequate amount of bribe. I'll take their legal advice (:

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Why do you keep giving strange advice while the solution is simple - they should go to a lawyer??

Or you think you know Russian pshychology? Or you personnaly know that guy? Or his sister???

we went to a lawyer to draw up the papers. She said to bribe him. we did. It worked. everything in Russia is for sale, his sister has nothing to say, she can just take a long walk on a short pier. Pay the guy off and get his signature, he can deal with the sister. The sister is HIS problem, not the OPs

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I've had Russian lawyers tell me flat out that it is their experience that if you want "justice", the only way to guarantee it is by paying an adequate amount of bribe. I'll take their legal advice (:

It is also the way to get medical care, get your pension check delivered, get a corrected divorce certificate, get a health certificate for an animal, get a building permit, get approval on building inspections, get a drivers license. YES, I know the RUB mentality, I built buildings there for two years, you do not get anywhere or get anything without PAYING someone under the table.

This sage advice is also coming from the poster that mistakenly informed the OP he didn't need the letter at all. Incidentlaly you will need the letter EVERY time you exit Russia, even after the child has his green card (if he is under 16) so make sure the attorney that draws up the letter states that it is permission to relocate PERMANENTLY to the United States and that it also grants permission to remove the child from the country to the United States or ANY OTHER country the mother designates on future visits to Russia.

Pay off the father. My guess is $1000 or less will do it. He can give half to his whiny sister if he wants, that will shut her up also.

[visaveteran 0]

Another stereotype...all Russians are crooks and will accept bribes.

A number of years ago I went to visit my first Russian girlfriend at her apt. in the city of Ryazan. I screwed up and didn't get the proper home stay visa documents because it was my first such visit and my girlfriend didn't inform me. Of course, I need an invitation letter. I just had a regular tourist visa.

To make a long story short, we ended up at the OVIR office dealing with Russian's most notorious bureaucrats. We had to deal with this one woman and she kept making us get more documents (faxed or emailed from USA to a friend's machine). This went on for 3 days and I was getting nervous and my girlfriend was getting more and more annoyed. Finally my girlfriend decided maybe this woman wanted a bribe, so we got one of those envelopes people use to insert bribe money and put in $100. We went to meet this woman again and my girlfriend pulled out the envelope and pushed it to the woman across the table. The woman looked indignant and pushed it back...and then gave me the documents I needed. We were finally done.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I am Russian and as a Russian i can tell you that some Russians prefer to think that law doesn't work because a) it's easier to think that way and blame everything on that

b ) for some people it's easier to try to bribe rather than to read and understand the law;

c) they don't understand the consequences of bribing.. sometimes it's really easier to go legal way.

but not going far away from the thread - the author i think doesn't even need to bribe anybody.

You are a Russian and also said he wouldn't need the letter. WRONG. Why do you now advise him to "follow the law" when you said the law didn't require the letter. The OP should follow the advice of those of us who have been there and done that (inclduing our RUB wives) You are simply way off base here.

My advice to other VJers...this will be required. IF your fiancee has children, get this letter DONE and out of the way BEFORE you file the petition. The OP has surrendered a lot of power to this addicted pig and his sister because he is caring about this now when the interview is near. it means their price just went up. Such things can really be a deal breaker for women, If Alla could not have taken her children we would not have been moving to the USA, it is that simple. What would be the point of filing a petition if some drunk could stop us at the last moment? I mean that just was NOT going to happen.

For the OP it means he is going to have to pony up enough cash to satisfy two greedy Russians. probably still under $1000.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Russian Federal law #114 of 1996 (http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=95210 ) says what i said - "An underage child normally travels abroad with one of the parents. If a child travels alone than the consent of both parents is required. In case either of the parents objects the underage child to travel abroad, such parent must submit his/her objection to the court and the possibility to travel outside Russia will be reviewed by the court".

I strongly recommend the author (his fiancee actually) to contact a lawyer, not a forum. And to read the instructions / laws more attentive.

And find out if they really have a problem or it's more one of those 'fear has big eyes' (Russian saying) situations .

And I wasn't asked to present that consent during my K1/K2 interview. What else to say?

Russian law does not matter, US law rules for visa issuance. If you were not asked for it, it was a mistake. The OP should not rely on the consulate making the same mistake. A Russian lawyer cannot tell the US consulate what to do.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Another stereotype...all Russians are crooks and will accept bribes.

A number of years ago I went to visit my first Russian girlfriend at her apt. in the city of Ryazan. I screwed up and didn't get the proper home stay visa documents because it was my first such visit and my girlfriend didn't inform me. Of course, I need an invitation letter. I just had a regular tourist visa.

To make a long story short, we ended up at the OVIR office dealing with Russian's most notorious bureaucrats. We had to deal with this one woman and she kept making us get more documents (faxed or emailed from USA to a friend's machine). This went on for 3 days and I was getting nervous and my girlfriend was getting more and more annoyed. Finally my girlfriend decided maybe this woman wanted a bribe, so we got one of those envelopes people use to insert bribe money and put in $100. We went to meet this woman again and my girlfriend pulled out the envelope and pushed it to the woman across the table. The woman looked indignant and pushed it back...and then gave me the documents I needed. We were finally done.

I dealt wqith Ukrainian government officials every day in building projects for the Ukrainian government, our client. Every one accepted and expected bribes. You found a very rare woman that was willing to actually do something and not take money.

[Kailey 3]

Gary, on the web site of the US Embassy in Moscow there is a list of documents that must be submitted for K1/K2. I don't see that Consent anymore but i thought it was there actually when we started our own K1/K2 journey.

Moscow and Kiev Embassies have different requirements about children. I know that Ukranian women have more troubles with that Consent to Departure.

Russian law is less strict when a kid is leaving with one of the parents. But here - while they are still under the Russian jurisdiction - problems might take place at passport control that's why I went a bit further and even if they get k1/k2 without the father's permission, I think they should still either read the law (this is the way i would use - go to the source) or talk to a lawyer.

In what I agree with you is that the GENERAL advice should be - get that Consent if you can. Sure it's better to have it rather than not. Who argues?

Dixi

[Neonred 3,950]

I dealt wqith Ukrainian government officials every day in building projects for the Ukrainian government, our client. Every one accepted and expected bribes. You found a very rare woman that was willing to actually do something and not take money.

I had a similar experience at the OVIR in Rostov. They were very willing to take "gifts" such as a bottle of wine or candy but would not accept money because too many people were watching.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I had a similar experience at the OVIR in Rostov. They were very willing to take "gifts" such as a bottle of wine or candy but would not accept money because too many people were watching.

Yes, for certain things, particularly low level "favors" such as speeding up the delivery of documents or for "tipping" someone for good service such as a doctor a "gift" is more customary than cash. We used to keep (and still do) a few bottles of wine, some particularly good tea, some chocolates, etc. around our flat for just such things. It is very bad form NOT to give a gift to someone who has done something "out of the ordinary" for you.

Cash works well for other things.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Gary, on the web site of the US Embassy in Moscow there is a list of documents that must be submitted for K1/K2. I don't see that Consent anymore but i thought it was there actually when we started our own K1/K2 journey.

Moscow and Kiev Embassies have different requirements about children. I know that Ukranian women have more troubles with that Consent to Departure.

Russian law is less strict when a kid is leaving with one of the parents. But here - while they are still under the Russian jurisdiction - problems might take place at passport control that's why I went a bit further and even if they get k1/k2 without the father's permission, I think they should still either read the law (this is the way i would use - go to the source) or talk to a lawyer.

In what I agree with you is that the GENERAL advice should be - get that Consent if you can. Sure it's better to have it rather than not. Who argues?

Dixi

Dixi

If he can pull it off without parental consent, that would be great. be advised that Kiev and I presume other consulates do not always advertise exactly what is needed for K2 visa in particular. I have also checked the Mosocw website (we try to keep up to date on Kiev and Moscow as Alla does translations and Moscow has a kind of strange requirement regarding notarization ) And the Moscow consulate webpage is pretty lacking when it comes to specifics for K2s. So is Kiev. Only by digging around and making many calls to the consular section was I able to find all the necessary information we needed for both k2s. It was somewhat maddening, actually.

If anything the OP should call the Moscow consular section, immigrant visa section handles K2s (even though they are not immigrant visas) and ask. I am not sure any Russian lawyer would know and most will, as AKDiver says, suggest he just bribe the father. What is critical is what the consulate will require, not Russian law, per se. We are dealing with what the US consulate requires to issue a visa, not what Russian law says. Russian law does not require a visa to enter the US, so why not just come without one?

[Kailey 3]

Dixi

If he can pull it off without parental consent, that would be great. be advised that Kiev and I presume other consulates do not always advertise exactly what is needed for K2 visa in particular. I have also checked the Mosocw website (we try to keep up to date on Kiev and Moscow as Alla does translations and Moscow has a kind of strange requirement regarding notarization ) And the Moscow consulate webpage is pretty lacking when it comes to specifics for K2s. So is Kiev. Only by digging around and making many calls to the consular section was I able to find all the necessary information we needed for both k2s. It was somewhat maddening, actually.

If anything the OP should call the Moscow consular section, immigrant visa section handles K2s (even though they are not immigrant visas) and ask. I am not sure any Russian lawyer would know and most will, as AKDiver says, suggest he just bribe the father. What is critical is what the consulate will require, not Russian law, per se. We are dealing with what the US consulate requires to issue a visa, not what Russian law says. Russian law does not require a visa to enter the US, so why not just come without one?

rrr...

i speak about Russian lawyer only in the connection with a moment when this woman and her kids will be crossing the border. There some Russian officers might ask for that permission.

I have never said that American Embassy would issue K1 based on the Russian laws. Heh, that even sounds like science fiction!

As for bribing ... Well, since you work in a tough business of construction, I trust you had met with difficult situations and wild bureaucracy.

But what I saw in many cases in my peaceful world - people accuse government or bank employees in extortion just because they are too lazy or don't know how (and don't want to know) to do things right and therefore get rejected.

I.e. : requirement is to bring 10 documents so that project goes from stage A to stage B.

Some people would only bring 8.5 docs and than go whining that those bureaucrats want bribes. And all what was needed - to bring exactly 10 documents. Not 9. Not 11. 10!

and i'm not dixi . 'dixi' was a good intention which i failed to fulfill.