Parental approval for immigration

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary, on the web site of the US Embassy in Moscow there is a list of documents that must be submitted for K1/K2. I don't see that Consent anymore but i thought it was there actually when we started our own K1/K2 journey.

Moscow and Kiev Embassies have different requirements about children. I know that Ukranian women have more troubles with that Consent to Departure.

Russian law is less strict when a kid is leaving with one of the parents. But here - while they are still under the Russian jurisdiction - problems might take place at passport control that's why I went a bit further and even if they get k1/k2 without the father's permission, I think they should still either read the law (this is the way i would use - go to the source) or talk to a lawyer.

In what I agree with you is that the GENERAL advice should be - get that Consent if you can. Sure it's better to have it rather than not. Who argues?

Dixi

Dixi

If he can pull it off without parental consent, that would be great. be advised that Kiev and I presume other consulates do not always advertise exactly what is needed for K2 visa in particular. I have also checked the Mosocw website (we try to keep up to date on Kiev and Moscow as Alla does translations and Moscow has a kind of strange requirement regarding notarization ) And the Moscow consulate webpage is pretty lacking when it comes to specifics for K2s. So is Kiev. Only by digging around and making many calls to the consular section was I able to find all the necessary information we needed for both k2s. It was somewhat maddening, actually.

If anything the OP should call the Moscow consular section, immigrant visa section handles K2s (even though they are not immigrant visas) and ask. I am not sure any Russian lawyer would know and most will, as AKDiver says, suggest he just bribe the father. What is critical is what the consulate will require, not Russian law, per se. We are dealing with what the US consulate requires to issue a visa, not what Russian law says. Russian law does not require a visa to enter the US, so why not just come without one?

[Kailey 3]

Dixi

If he can pull it off without parental consent, that would be great. be advised that Kiev and I presume other consulates do not always advertise exactly what is needed for K2 visa in particular. I have also checked the Mosocw website (we try to keep up to date on Kiev and Moscow as Alla does translations and Moscow has a kind of strange requirement regarding notarization ) And the Moscow consulate webpage is pretty lacking when it comes to specifics for K2s. So is Kiev. Only by digging around and making many calls to the consular section was I able to find all the necessary information we needed for both k2s. It was somewhat maddening, actually.

If anything the OP should call the Moscow consular section, immigrant visa section handles K2s (even though they are not immigrant visas) and ask. I am not sure any Russian lawyer would know and most will, as AKDiver says, suggest he just bribe the father. What is critical is what the consulate will require, not Russian law, per se. We are dealing with what the US consulate requires to issue a visa, not what Russian law says. Russian law does not require a visa to enter the US, so why not just come without one?

rrr...

i speak about Russian lawyer only in the connection with a moment when this woman and her kids will be crossing the border. There some Russian officers might ask for that permission.

I have never said that American Embassy would issue K1 based on the Russian laws. Heh, that even sounds like science fiction!

As for bribing ... Well, since you work in a tough business of construction, I trust you had met with difficult situations and wild bureaucracy.

But what I saw in many cases in my peaceful world - people accuse government or bank employees in extortion just because they are too lazy or don't know how (and don't want to know) to do things right and therefore get rejected.

I.e. : requirement is to bring 10 documents so that project goes from stage A to stage B.

Some people would only bring 8.5 docs and than go whining that those bureaucrats want bribes. And all what was needed - to bring exactly 10 documents. Not 9. Not 11. 10!

and i'm not dixi . 'dixi' was a good intention which i failed to fulfill.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

rrr...

i speak about Russian lawyer only in the connection with a moment when this woman and her kids will be crossing the border. There some Russian officers might ask for that permission.

I have never said that American Embassy would issue K1 based on the Russian laws. Heh, that even sounds like science fiction!

As for bribing ... Well, since you work in a tough business of construction, I trust you had met with difficult situations and wild bureaucracy.

But what I saw in many cases in my peaceful world - people accuse government or bank employees in extortion just because they are too lazy or don't know how (and don't want to know) to do things right and therefore get rejected.

I.e. : requirement is to bring 10 documents so that project goes from stage A to stage B.

Some people would only bring 8.5 docs and than go whining that those bureaucrats want bribes. And all what was needed - to bring exactly 10 documents. Not 9. Not 11. 10!

and i'm not dixi . 'dixi' was a good intention which i failed to fulfill.

OK Kailey.

I underwtand what you mean about the documents. However what I ran into constantly, and I do not think by coincidence, was that even when all the documents needed were presented we were faced with waiting what I came to call "the Ukrainian 3 weeks". Yes, all is in order, you will have your permit in 3 weeks. In the meantime you have 300 men mobilized and not easy to find somewhat modern excavation equipment ready and you are paying for it. Big payment. So out comes the money and then you wait "in the hall" for a few minutes and get your permit, inspection approval,whatver is needed to get everyone back to work.

I am not a big fan of this and when I can avoid paying bribes, but when your employer is spending thousands per hour (even at relatively low Ukrainian wages) we do not need to wait 3 weeks for a piece of paper and I think the government people know this.

I don't fault anyone or make judgements, it is what it is. If anything it is the fault of the government that pays such slave wages that the workers "must" do something "to eat".

[baron555 934]

If anything the OP should call the Moscow consular section, immigrant visa section handles K2s (even though they are not immigrant visas) and ask. I am not sure any Russian lawyer would know and most will, as AKDiver says, suggest he just bribe the father. What is critical is what the consulate will require, not Russian law, per se. We are dealing with what the US consulate requires to issue a visa, not what Russian law says. Russian law does not require a visa to enter the US, so why not just come without one?

If there is a father's name listed on the child's birth certificate; then formal written permission is required before the child will be allowed to leave.

How you obtain this permission is up to you but I do not consider it highly likely you will be able to circumvent this requirement, especially when it comes to obtaining a document from the Russian government allowing a child to leave Russia. They are very suspicious and look down upon that, in light of recent past horrors involving children that left Russia for a foreign country.

The better bet may be to withdraw the visa petition and then take your time obtaining this permission and then once you have that in hand, then again file for the visa petition.

Edited January 11, 2010 by baron555

[Kailey 3]

If there is a father's name listed on the child's birth certificate; then formal written permission is required before the child will be allowed to leave.

How you obtain this permission is up to you but I do not consider it highly likely you will be able to circumvent this requirement, especially when it comes to obtaining a document from the Russian government allowing a child to leave Russia. They are very suspicious and look down upon that, in light of recent past horrors involving children that left Russia for a foreign country.

The better bet may be to withdraw the visa petition and then take your time obtaining this permission and then once you have that in hand, then again file for the visa petition.

can you tell me when and where was it required during the proccess - i mean really required? Just curious. I am not arguing I 'm just asking to show me

where is it said.

I had same situation and i think i got some grey hairs wrecking my brain on how to obtain that paper. finally i did. and i never needed it so far.

I still have one test ahead where it can be asked - moment of the crossing of the Russian border in the airport. So probably then i will have t oshow it. But again. The law (russian law and when you cross Russian border you are still under Russian jurisdiction) doesn't say that 1 parent travelling with his child MUST have such a document.

This document is only required when a kid travels alone.

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

As promised the update:

It turns out my girl's mother and grandmother were involved; they share an apartmen with my girl. The boy's papers (passport, etc) went missing and they were the only other persons with access. On confrontation they confessed, their reason; they didn't want her to leave, because they would lose her portion on the rent. So they fed information to the sister-in-law and gave the boys' papers to her.

My girl knew that confronting them all directly would be futile at this point and did an end-run. She spoke to her ex's mother and convinced her that it was in the best interest of her grandson, that he is removed from such dishonest people.

The mother-in-law agreed and spoke to her son. She basically told him that he was dying. A few months ago he was in the hospital because various organs are failing...too much drink and drugs. She asked him if he really wanted his son to see him die like this and that he knew his sister would get bored with her new "toy" and abandon him, once she finds a new man. She told him he promised to sign the papers and it wasn't right to only sign for one and that he was being used by all of them, they didn't care about him or his son. If he was afraid of not having a place to live later, he could move back in with her.

I don't know if he had a moment of clarity or conscience, but he got the stolen papers from his sister's apartment and signed the travel papers, so the boy could leave.

Money was never mentioned, offered or given. Now this may be because they are Uzbekistan and not native Russians, but I am loathe to stereotype a group of people. All I can say is that a family operates on its own rules and you have to be careful how you tread.

My girl passed her interview this morning, without issue. The Moscow consul did not ask to see the permission to leave papers for either child. Whether this is a mistake or not, I leave to you to decide for yourselves. I offer no advice.

She said the interviewer asked if she would rather speak in English or Russian. My girl said Russian. However whenever the interviewer asked a question in Russian, my girl would responded in English and the interviewer found this funny and laughed. So they started speaking in English. It was a woman interviewer.

She was asked for some of the photos, how often we communicate with each other and she looked at some ICQ chat logs. It took about 3 hrs in total and she was told she would receive visas for all.

I'm still waiting for more details, but if you have any questions I can ask her later.

Good luck to you all,

Ciao

Edited January 19, 2010 by mrsjohnsonscat

[mox 298]

It's never easy, is it? Glad you got it all sorted though, and congratulations!

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

Oh I forgot add: The package containing the original papers hasn't arrived in Moscow yet, it's been 30 days. I sent it USPS priority, which is sad because for the past year and half everything I sent to her arrived in around 10-11 days...except this one. It left the states and vanished.

Anyway the consul accepted my emailed versions of all documents without question. Just an FYI.

[mox 298]

Oh I forgot add: The package containing the original papers hasn't arrived in Moscow yet, it's been 30 days. I sent it USPS priority, which is sad because for the past year and half everything I sent to her arrived in around 10-11 days...except this one. It left the states and vanished.

Anyway the consul accepted my emailed versions of all documents without question. Just an FYI.

The Russian post office shuts down for most of January, which inevitably leads to a huge backlog afterwards. Expect your package to take 2-3 times as long as normal, unfortunately.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As promised the update:

It turns out my girl's mother and grandmother were involved; they share an apartmen with my girl. The boy's papers (passport, etc) went missing and they were the only other persons with access. On confrontation they confessed, their reason; they didn't want her to leave, because they would lose her portion on the rent. So they fed information to the sister-in-law and gave the boys' papers to her.

My girl knew that confronting them all directly would be futile at this point and did an end-run. She spoke to her ex's mother and convinced her that it was in the best interest of her grandson, that he is removed from such dishonest people.

The mother-in-law agreed and spoke to her son. She basically told him that he was dying. A few months ago he was in the hospital because various organs are failing...too much drink and drugs. She asked him if he really wanted his son to see him die like this and that he knew his sister would get bored with her new "toy" and abandon him, once she finds a new man. She told him he promised to sign the papers and it wasn't right to only sign for one and that he was being used by all of them, they didn't care about him or his son. If he was afraid of not having a place to live later, he could move back in with her.

I don't know if he had a moment of clarity or conscience, but he got the stolen papers from his sister's apartment and signed the travel papers, so the boy could leave.

Money was never mentioned, offered or given. Now this may be because they are Uzbekistan and not native Russians, but I am loathe to stereotype a group of people. All I can say is that a family operates on its own rules and you have to be careful how you tread.

My girl passed her interview this morning, without issue. The Moscow consul did not ask to see the permission to leave papers for either child. Whether this is a mistake or not, I leave to you to decide for yourselves. I offer no advice.

She said the interviewer asked if she would rather speak in English or Russian. My girl said Russian. However whenever the interviewer asked a question in Russian, my girl would responded in English and the interviewer found this funny and laughed. So they started speaking in English. It was a woman interviewer.

She was asked for some of the photos, how often we communicate with each other and she looked at some ICQ chat logs. It took about 3 hrs in total and she was told she would receive visas for all.

I'm still waiting for more details, but if you have any questions I can ask her later.

Good luck to you all,

Ciao

Obviously it was about money...with a twist, and a bribe equal to a few months of the rent assistance they were getting would have done the trick, but sounds like his mother prevailed upon him to do the right thing for the child.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Oh I forgot add: The package containing the original papers hasn't arrived in Moscow yet, it's been 30 days. I sent it USPS priority, which is sad because for the past year and half everything I sent to her arrived in around 10-11 days...except this one. It left the states and vanished.

Anyway the consul accepted my emailed versions of all documents without question. Just an FYI.

You are lucky they did this. Without further confirmation I really do not want to comment on the need for parental permission. I know it is an absolute necessity for Ukraine and surprised Russia would be different, but maybe yes. Also, some papers faxed would not be accepted by most consulates, such as the I-134. Of course, such a decision is at the consulate's disgression and some are more agreeable than others. As a matter of course I never send anything IN to Russia or Ukraine by the postal service. FedEx ONLY going in. Sending stuff out I have had good results in getting things where they belong but unpredictable delivery times ranging from 6 days to 6 weeks. FedEx is 3 days there or back and I always arrange for station pickup in Ukraine or Russia, not delivery to the door.

[slim 1,514]

The Moscow consul did not ask to see the permission to leave papers for either child. Whether this is a mistake or not, I leave to you to decide for yourselves. I offer no advice.

They didn't ask because she had them. Had she not had the papers, they surely would've asked. That's the CO we call Mr. Murphy!

[eekee 182]

He might need the papers upon leaving the country, so they're good to have, regardless.

[slim 1,514]

Great point, eekee!